Author Topic: Wildfires burning across Maui prompt evacuations  (Read 15788 times)

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Offline cato potatoe

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Re: Wildfires burning across Maui prompt evacuations
« Reply #75 on: August 13, 2023, 10:20:31 pm »
Maui was suffering a drought so lightning is probably out. High winds from hurricane Dora may have blown down a power line sparking it off. That is my guess.

The investigation should be helpful.  I’m pretty concerned this could happen again, since the larger towns are built on the arid slopes, and they don’t know how to keep a small fire from getting out of hand.

Offline mystery-ak

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Re: Wildfires burning across Maui prompt evacuations
« Reply #76 on: August 13, 2023, 10:43:04 pm »
 August 13, 2023 2:07pm EDT
Hawaii Gov Josh Green says ‘very real’ global warming caused conditions for deadly wildfire
Democrat governor called blaze 'fire hurricane' that left Lahaina like 'war zone'
By Stephen Sorace | Fox News

Hawaii Gov. Josh Green said Sunday that global warming played a major role in the Maui wildfire that destroyed a historic town and has so far killed at least 93 people.

Green spoke about the devastation in the centuries-old town of Lahaina during an appearance on MSNBC’s "The Sunday Show with Jonathan Capehart," describing the wildfire as a "fire hurricane" with gusting 80 mph winds and "1,000-degree heat creating fire cyclones going through buildings."

"Everything is burnt to the ground in Lahaina," the Democrat said, calling it a "war zone" that is "completely destroyed."

Green attributed strong winds from Hurricane Dora, which passed far to the south of the island last week, and very dry drought conditions on Maui to the fast-moving blaze.

more
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/hawaii-gov-josh-green-says-very-real-global-warming-caused-conditions-deadly-wildfire
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Offline bigheadfred

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Re: Wildfires burning across Maui prompt evacuations
« Reply #77 on: August 13, 2023, 10:53:07 pm »
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Offline cato potatoe

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Re: Wildfires burning across Maui prompt evacuations
« Reply #78 on: August 13, 2023, 11:54:36 pm »
Hawaii Gov. Josh Green said Sunday that global warming played a major role in the Maui wildfire that destroyed a historic town and has so far killed at least 93 people.

Green spoke about the devastation in the centuries-old town of Lahaina during an appearance on MSNBC’s "The Sunday Show with Jonathan Capehart," describing the wildfire as a "fire hurricane" with gusting 80 mph winds and "1,000-degree heat creating fire cyclones going through buildings."

"Everything is burnt to the ground in Lahaina," the Democrat said, calling it a "war zone" that is "completely destroyed."

Green attributed strong winds from Hurricane Dora, which passed far to the south of the island last week, and very dry drought conditions on Maui to the fast-moving blaze.

The governor is trying to deflect responsibility with his climate nonsense.  Lahaina is Hawaiian for "cruel or merciless sun."  The climate has always been dry and sunny.

We need to know why no warning was issued to residents after the fire began, and what (if any) mitigation efforts took place before it burned everything down and took a couple of hundred people with it.

Offline libertybele

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Re: Wildfires burning across Maui prompt evacuations
« Reply #79 on: August 14, 2023, 01:09:58 am »
The governor is trying to deflect responsibility with his climate nonsense.  Lahaina is Hawaiian for "cruel or merciless sun."  The climate has always been dry and sunny.

We need to know why no warning was issued to residents after the fire began, and what (if any) mitigation efforts took place before it burned everything down and took a couple of hundred people with it.

That question definitely needs to be answered.

.....the state's vaunted integrated outdoor siren warning system – the largest in the world, with about 400 alarms – was not activated during the fires, according to Hawaii Emergency Management Agency spokesperson Adam Weintraub.

Who is going to take responsibility for that??
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Offline libertybele

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Re: Wildfires burning across Maui prompt evacuations
« Reply #80 on: August 14, 2023, 01:22:16 am »
One account:

............"It's not that people didn't try to do anything. It's that it was so fast no one had time to do anything," Curran said. "The fire went from 0 to 100."

But Cicchino said it all felt like the county wasn't prepared and government agencies weren't communicating with each other.

"I feel like the county really cost a lot of peoples' lives and homes that day. I felt like a lot of this could have been prevented if they just thought about this stuff in the morning, and took their precaution," he said. "You live in a fire zone. They have a lot of fires. You need to prepare for fires."

The all-hazard sirens are tested each month to ensure they are in working order. During the most recent test, Aug. 1, they malfunctioned in three separate incidents in three counties. Maui's siren tone was too short, so officials repeated the test later that day, successfully.

Karl Kim directs the National Disaster Preparedness Training Center, a University of Hawaii-based organization that develops training materials to help officials respond to natural disasters.

Kim said it's too soon to know exactly how the warning and alert system might have saved more lives in Lahaina, and noted that wildfires are often more challenging to manage than volcanic eruptions, tsunamis and even earthquakes because they are more difficult to detect and track over time.

"I think it's a wake-up call," he said. "We have to invest more in understanding of wildfires and the threats that they provide, which aren't as well understood."
................

https://abc7.com/maui-wildfires-warning-wildfire-hawaii/13638359/
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Online DB

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Re: Wildfires burning across Maui prompt evacuations
« Reply #81 on: August 14, 2023, 01:51:56 am »
When the wind is blowing at 60+ mph, the fire can spread at near that rate. It's a fire storm of destruction. You can't fight it. You can only get out of the way.

Offline American Girl

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Re: Wildfires burning across Maui prompt evacuations
« Reply #82 on: August 14, 2023, 12:31:50 pm »
You would think during a hurricane, it wouldn’t be such a nice sunny day.

Those posts should withstand 90m+ winds since the islands are prone to hurricanes.
Maui fires were provoked. Prove me otherwise.
This and dry hydrants... Infrastructure failure.
https://www.usasupreme.com/video-that-was-taken-right-before-the-hawaii-fires-started-seems-to-show-what-caused-the-wild-fires/

Offline bigheadfred

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Re: Wildfires burning across Maui prompt evacuations
« Reply #83 on: August 14, 2023, 12:56:12 pm »
Death toll at 96
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Offline mountaineer

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Re: Wildfires burning across Maui prompt evacuations
« Reply #84 on: August 14, 2023, 12:59:21 pm »
From Twitter:  Footage of the initial start of the fires in Lahaina, Maui. No official cause has been released yet but class action lawsuits have already been opened by multiple law firms, suing the local utility and power companies for their roll in the tragedy. 
The class action lawsuit alleges that downed power lines that MECO, HECO, HELCO, and HEI owned and operated caused the fire.

https://twitter.com/HotshotWake/status/1690510387991502849
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Offline Idiot

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Re: Wildfires burning across Maui prompt evacuations
« Reply #85 on: August 14, 2023, 01:03:04 pm »
From Twitter:  Footage of the initial start of the fires in Lahaina, Maui. No official cause has been released yet but class action lawsuits have already been opened by multiple law firms, suing the local utility and power companies for their roll in the tragedy. 
The class action lawsuit alleges that downed power lines that MECO, HECO, HELCO, and HEI owned and operated caused the fire.

https://twitter.com/HotshotWake/status/1690510387991502849
I seriously doubt the power utilities could control the wind.  They'll say they should have cut off the electricity to the city, but when you do that you risk other lawsuits.  They can't win.

Offline mystery-ak

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Re: Wildfires burning across Maui prompt evacuations
« Reply #86 on: August 14, 2023, 01:19:15 pm »
Hawaiian couple sues power companies over Lahaina destruction amid historic Maui wildfires

Monica and Rede Eder say the power companies "caused loss of life, serious injuries [and] destruction of hundreds of homes and businesses"

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https://www.foxnews.com/us/hawaiian-couple-sues-power-companies-lahaina-destruction-historic-maui-wildfires
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Offline mystery-ak

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Re: Wildfires burning across Maui prompt evacuations
« Reply #87 on: August 14, 2023, 01:40:19 pm »
 TV crew with Oprah turned away from shelter housing Maui fire survivors during media mogul’s visit
By David Propper   
August 14, 2023 1:38am

A camera crew that was accompanying Oprah Winfrey as she visited Maui wildfire survivors inside a Hawaii shelter Sunday was turned away at the door due to a no-media policy inside, officials said.

The famous television host and media mogul helped raise the spirits of Maui residents at the War Memorial Complex without the cameras capturing the moment due to the ongoing policy by county officials.

Winfrey, who lives on the Hawaiian island part-time, has made multiple trips to comfort those impacted by the raging fires that have killed nearly 100 people and destroyed or damaged over 2,000 structures.

“Oprah was able to visit our shelter and we thank her for instructing media journalists and camera crews to remain outside,” the County of Maui wrote on Facebook. “We welcome Oprah to continue to uplift our community’s spirit and give her aloha to victims of the tragic disaster.

“Her visit inside of the shelter today was truly heartwarming and we appreciate her understanding of our policy of having no camera crews or reporters accompanying dignitaries and celebrities in our emergency shelters.”


A camera crew following Oprah Winfrey was turned away trying to gain access to Maui wildfire survivors inside a Hawaii shelter.

more
https://nypost.com/2023/08/14/tv-crew-with-oprah-turned-away-from-shelter-housing-maui-fire-survivors-during-media-moguls-visit/
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Offline PeteS in CA

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Re: Wildfires burning across Maui prompt evacuations
« Reply #88 on: August 14, 2023, 01:54:23 pm »
The hurricane was not over Hawai'i, but it still affected winds in the islands.

I wonder if enviro-regs forbade people in rural areas from creating fire breaks around their homes and other otherwise common sense measures.
If, as anti-Covid-vaxxers claim, https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2021/robert-f-kennedy-jr-said-the-covid-19-vaccine-is-the-deadliest-vaccine-ever-made-thats-not-true/ , https://gospelnewsnetwork.org/2021/11/23/covid-shots-are-the-deadliest-vaccines-in-medical-history/ , The Vaccine is deadly, where in the US have Pfizer and Moderna hidden the millions of bodies of those who died of "vaccine injury"? Is reality a Big Pharma Shill?

Millions now living should have died. Anti-Covid-Vaxxer ghouls hardest hit.

Online DB

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Re: Wildfires burning across Maui prompt evacuations
« Reply #89 on: August 14, 2023, 02:36:13 pm »
So now they're suing the power companies for not turning off the power when the high winds came... Welcome to California... Either the legislator/governor does something about these lawsuits or their power is going third world. Pick one.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Wildfires burning across Maui prompt evacuations
« Reply #90 on: August 14, 2023, 03:24:28 pm »
When the wind is blowing at 60+ mph, the fire can spread at near that rate. It's a fire storm of destruction. You can't fight it. You can only get out of the way.
Actually, they can move faster. Embers in the vicinity of the flame front are carried aloft by convection and can come down miles ahead of the fire front on the ground, creating a leapfrog effect. The new fires eventually merge with the parent fire, but proceed with the wind as new flame fronts. This is a hazard for those fighting or just trying to escape the fire, as it can cut off routes of escape.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

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Offline Kamaji

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Re: Wildfires burning across Maui prompt evacuations
« Reply #91 on: August 14, 2023, 03:27:15 pm »
Actually, they can move faster. Embers in the vicinity of the flame front are carried aloft by convection and can come down miles ahead of the fire front on the ground, creating a leapfrog effect. The new fires eventually merge with the parent fire, but proceed with the wind as new flame fronts. This is a hazard for those fighting or just trying to escape the fire, as it can cut off routes of escape.

:thumbsup:

Online DB

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Re: Wildfires burning across Maui prompt evacuations
« Reply #92 on: August 14, 2023, 04:08:45 pm »
Actually, they can move faster. Embers in the vicinity of the flame front are carried aloft by convection and can come down miles ahead of the fire front on the ground, creating a leapfrog effect. The new fires eventually merge with the parent fire, but proceed with the wind as new flame fronts. This is a hazard for those fighting or just trying to escape the fire, as it can cut off routes of escape.

It can move faster than a 60 MPH wind that is carrying those embers?

Yes, the fire can leapfrog miles at a time. With 60 MPH winds, that's a mile a minute. But it still takes the wind to move those embers miles laterally over a short time. Otherwise the embers just rise up and slowly drop as they cool which is a far greater distance to travel taking more time.

Online GtHawk

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Re: Wildfires burning across Maui prompt evacuations
« Reply #93 on: August 14, 2023, 04:13:56 pm »
You would think during a hurricane, it wouldn’t be such a nice sunny day.

Those posts should withstand 90m+ winds since the islands are prone to hurricanes.
Maui fires were provoked. Prove me otherwise.
This and dry hydrants... Infrastructure failure.
https://www.usasupreme.com/video-that-was-taken-right-before-the-hawaii-fires-started-seems-to-show-what-caused-the-wild-fires/
Maybe because Maui wasn't hit by the hurricane.

Online GtHawk

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Re: Wildfires burning across Maui prompt evacuations
« Reply #94 on: August 14, 2023, 04:18:21 pm »
TV crew with Oprah turned away from shelter housing Maui fire survivors during media mogul’s visit
By David Propper   
August 14, 2023 1:38am

A camera crew that was accompanying Oprah Winfrey as she visited Maui wildfire survivors inside a Hawaii shelter Sunday was turned away at the door due to a no-media policy inside, officials said.

The famous television host and media mogul helped raise the spirits of Maui residents at the War Memorial Complex without the cameras capturing the moment due to the ongoing policy by county officials.

Winfrey, who lives on the Hawaiian island part-time, has made multiple trips to comfort those impacted by the raging fires that have killed nearly 100 people and destroyed or damaged over 2,000 structures.

“Oprah was able to visit our shelter and we thank her for instructing media journalists and camera crews to remain outside,” the County of Maui wrote on Facebook. “We welcome Oprah to continue to uplift our community’s spirit and give her aloha to victims of the tragic disaster.

“Her visit inside of the shelter today was truly heartwarming and we appreciate her understanding of our policy of having no camera crews or reporters accompanying dignitaries and celebrities in our emergency shelters.”


A camera crew following Oprah Winfrey was turned away trying to gain access to Maui wildfire survivors inside a Hawaii shelter.

more
https://nypost.com/2023/08/14/tv-crew-with-oprah-turned-away-from-shelter-housing-maui-fire-survivors-during-media-moguls-visit/
Oprah gets points for going and helping the survivors, then loses the points for trying to record her with the survivors to score celebrity points.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Wildfires burning across Maui prompt evacuations
« Reply #95 on: August 14, 2023, 06:23:44 pm »
It can move faster than a 60 MPH wind that is carrying those embers?

Yes, the fire can leapfrog miles at a time. With 60 MPH winds, that's a mile a minute. But it still takes the wind to move those embers miles laterally over a short time. Otherwise the embers just rise up and slowly drop as they cool which is a far greater distance to travel taking more time.
That 60 MPH is on the ground. Winds aloft are often faster.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Online DB

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Re: Wildfires burning across Maui prompt evacuations
« Reply #96 on: August 14, 2023, 06:25:08 pm »
That 60 MPH is on the ground. Winds aloft are often faster.

No argument there - but is still wind driven.

Offline mountaineer

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Re: Wildfires burning across Maui prompt evacuations
« Reply #97 on: August 14, 2023, 06:31:13 pm »
Oprah gets points for going and helping the survivors, then loses the points for trying to record her with the survivors to score celebrity points.
Did she hand out any trinkets? "You get a car! And you get a car!"
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Offline mystery-ak

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Re: Wildfires burning across Maui prompt evacuations
« Reply #98 on: August 14, 2023, 06:32:37 pm »
 'Utter chaos Maui residents say they are being looted, 'robbed at gunpoint' as wildfires rage

“When your children and [you] are here starving after almost burning to death and the police won’t let people drive in to give you necessities, you may turn to desperate measures,” a resident said.

Some Maui residents say they have been looted and robbed at gunpoint while catastrophic wildfires rage on the island — leaving them begging for a greater response from authorities as thieves make off with vital supplies.

As rescue crews work to deliver necessities such as water, food, and first aid to those in need, locals say some residents have grown so desperate waiting for help that they’ve resorted to stealing.

West Maui residents blame the robberies in Lahaina on the fact that they feel abandoned without supplies or answers.

Jeremy Aganos, who owns the restaurant Coconut Caboose — one of the few buildings that survived the fires on Front Street in Lahaina — told KITV it was “utter chaos” for people trying to find food, water and shelter.

An Oregon resident told the outlet that their relative flew into Maui to donate water, food, household items and clothing — only to be robbed at gunpoint soon after his arrival.

The startling uptick in crime has left residents slamming local leadership for its inaction in the wake of the catastrophic fires, which have become the deadliest in the US in more than a century as nearly 100 people have been reported dead so far.

“There’s some police presence. There’s some small military presence. But at night, people are being robbed at gunpoint,” Matt Robb, co-owner of a bar in Lahaina called the Dirty Monkey, told Insider.

more
https://nypost.com/2023/08/14/maui-residents-claim-people-being-looted-robbed-at-gunpoint/
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Offline cato potatoe

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Re: Wildfires burning across Maui prompt evacuations
« Reply #99 on: August 14, 2023, 06:45:20 pm »
When the wind is blowing at 60+ mph, the fire can spread at near that rate. It's a fire storm of destruction. You can't fight it. You can only get out of the way.

I have to wonder if it moved quite so fast in the residential area.  It started a mile up Lahainaluna Rd that morning, then restarted mid afternoon.  Front street was in flames by early evening.  In any event they could have evacuated when the morning fire started.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2023, 06:49:17 pm by cato potatoe »