Author Topic: Nato summit: Allies refuse to give Ukraine timeframe on joining Published 1 hour ago  (Read 1562 times)

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Online libertybele

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Nato summit: Allies refuse to give Ukraine timeframe on joining

Nato states have said Ukraine can join the military alliance "when allies agree and conditions are met" after President Volodymyr Zelensky criticised the "absurd" delay to accession.

In a communique, Nato said it recognised the need to move faster but would not be drawn on a timeframe.

Earlier Mr Zelensky said there seemed to be "no readiness" to invite Ukraine to Nato or make it a member.

He is now in the Lithuanian capital Vilnius, where the summit is happening.

Kyiv accepts it cannot join Nato while it is at war with Russia but wants to join as soon as possible after fighting ends.

At a briefing on Tuesday afternoon Nato chief Jens Stoltenberg said allies had reaffirmed that Ukraine would become a Nato member and had agreed to drop the procedural need for a formal membership action plan.

"This will change Ukraine's membership path from a two-step process to a one-step process," he said.

But Mr Zelensky tweeted that the lack of an agreed timeframe meant his country's eventual membership could become a bargaining chip.

"A window of opportunity is being left to bargain Ukraine's membership in Nato in negotiations with Russia. Uncertainty is weakness," he said.

His comments follow disagreement between Nato members on Ukrainian membership.

Some fear near-automatic membership for Ukraine would give Russia an incentive to both escalate and prolong the war resulting from its full-scale invasion of its southern neighbour.

In its communique, Nato said Ukraine had become "increasingly interoperable and politically integrated with the alliance" and had also made progress on reform. Member states would support further reform, it said.

Mr Stoltenberg will meet Mr Zelensky at the inaugural meeting of the Nato-Ukraine Council on Wednesday. ................

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66167616
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Online Kamaji

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That is appropriate.

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Zelensky fumes over US rejection of NATO membership for Ukraine
Human Events, Jul 11, 2023

On Tuesday, Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelensky took to Twitter to voice his displeasure over the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) after a number of member countries, including the United States, rejected his war-torn nation's bid to join.

President Biden said in no uncertain terms earlier this week that he did not currently support admitting Ukraine into the alliance. It would necessitate the triggering of Article 5 of the treaty, which would drag all member states into war to defend Ukraine.

"We value our allies. We value our shared security. And we always appreciate an open conversation," Zelensky wrote, adding that "Ukraine will be represented at the NATO summit in Vilnius ... because it is about respect."

"But Ukraine also deserves respect," he continued. "Now, on the way to Vilnius, we received signals that certain wording is being discussed without Ukraine. And I would like to emphasize that this wording is about the invitation to become NATO member, not about Ukraine's membership."

He called the decision not to include Ukraine in NATO "unprecedented and absurd," citing the fact that no timeframe had been given regarding potential admission.

[...]

On Tuesday, NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg announced that Ukraine woul become a member of the alliance one day, explaining that it had simplified the process to only include one step as opposed to the usual two.

He said that an invitation would be issued "when conditions are met."


https://humanevents.com/2023/07/11/breaking-zelensky-fumes-over-us-rejection-of-nato-membership-for-ukraine?utm_campaign=64483

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Monica Crowley
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The cheese stands alone



8:37 PM · Jul 11, 2023

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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He really is in a snit .....


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Offline mountaineer

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The cheese stands alone
When the invitation says "business attire" and all you brought was your Fidel Castro ensemble.
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Online Kamaji

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When the invitation says "business attire" and all you brought was your Fidel Castro ensemble.

Yeah, because the CinC of a country that is fighting for its very survival against orcs should clearly have enough time to order a custom-fitted tux from Armani, and maybe travel over to Milan to have it fitted properly.

:rolleyes:

Offline mountaineer

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Did he get rid of this little number (suitable for any occasion, including NATO dinners)?


Meanwhile, back to the topic, a Florida congressman opines that NATO should not admit Ukraine because, "It would bring us into the war Ukraine's actively fighting. ALL members already aren't living up to their commitments (only 9 out of 32 contribute 2% of their GDP). Any new member must be able to contribute to the collective defense."

https://twitter.com/michaelgwaltz/status/1678934546262155267
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Online Kamaji

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Did he get rid of this little number (suitable for any occasion, including NATO dinners)?


Meanwhile, back to the topic, a Florida congressman opines that NATO should not admit Ukraine because, "It would bring us into the war Ukraine's actively fighting. ALL members already aren't living up to their commitments (only 9 out of 32 contribute 2% of their GDP). Any new member must be able to contribute to the collective defense."

https://twitter.com/michaelgwaltz/status/1678934546262155267


Bringing up his past antics does nothing more than demonstrate his Reaganesque growth in office, going from a silly little dilettante to the CinC and leader of a nation that has so far held off the Russian orc for more than a year and a half.

Trumpistas used to love to croon on and on about how Trump was the "weak vessel" chosen, presumably, by God, and yet here we have an arguably just as weak vessel who has managed to show much more character and fortitude than Trump will ever be capable of.

But, Biden-Bad, so like Pavlov's well-trained dogs, we all gotta salivate anti-Ukraine propaganda every time the bell rings.

Offline mountaineer

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But, Biden-Bad, so like Pavlov's well-trained dogs, we all gotta salivate anti-Ukraine propaganda every time the bell rings.
Wow.
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Online Kamaji

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Wow.

It is what it is.  Everyone is convinced that Zelenskii is nothing more than a sex-poodle who is busily stealing all the U.S. cash he can get his hands on - oh, he's so corrupt, yada, yada, yada - without any real evidence, and in the face of the facts that (a) he ran on, and was elected on, an anti-corruption platform, and (b) despite the fact that he is leading a country in a fight for its very survival, continues to go after corrupt government officials in his own government.

But no, because Biden is willing to support Ukraine, and because we all know Biden is corrupt, it can only be the case that Biden is supporting Ukraine because Zelenskii is personally corrupt as well.

If'n you don't like them shoes, then perhaps try not to walk in them quite so often.

Offline mountaineer

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If you say so.  :silly:
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Online Kamaji

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If you say so.  :silly:

:shrug:

If one wants to have a discussion about the policy pros and cons of supporting Ukraine, that'd be great, but that relies on facts, not on smears and innuendo, which is basically what a good half of the anti-Ukraine argument amounts to.  It can be summarized in a nice little syllogism:

Biden bad
Biden like Zelensky
Therefore, Zelensky bad

And from that flows all the "argument" about how we're wasting so many gazillions of dollars in Ukraine that is all being hoovered up by Biden and Zelensky, the two partners in crime.

But what's missing from all of that is fact.

Which is too bad.

Online libertybele

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:shrug:

If one wants to have a discussion about the policy pros and cons of supporting Ukraine, that'd be great, but that relies on facts, not on smears and innuendo, which is basically what a good half of the anti-Ukraine argument amounts to.  It can be summarized in a nice little syllogism:

Biden bad
Biden like Zelensky
Therefore, Zelensky bad

And from that flows all the "argument" about how we're wasting so many gazillions of dollars in Ukraine that is all being hoovered up by Biden and Zelensky, the two partners in crime.

But what's missing from all of that is fact.

Which is too bad.

@Kamaji  this has become a very long thread. Unfortunately I have posted facts several times with supporting links indicating the corruption of both Biden and Zekenskyy and either it wasn't read or just dismissed. I posted Glen Beck's timeline and illustration of the corruption of both Biden, Hunter and Ukraine a couple of times and again I'll just assume it was dismissed.  I normally post links or several to support what I post. 

With the internet one can find links to either prove or disprove a point, so I try to back track to the original source to trace to  truthful facts. Not to say that my research is any better or my posts are any better but normally I do at least try to give some validity to my eventual 'opinion'.  In the case of Glen Beck his research is pretty darn thorough as most of the time his team uses a hands on approach to validate their research before reporting. 
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Online libertybele

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It is what it is.  Everyone is convinced that Zelenskii is nothing more than a sex-poodle who is busily stealing all the U.S. cash he can get his hands on - oh, he's so corrupt, yada, yada, yada - without any real evidence, and in the face of the facts that (a) he ran on, and was elected on, an anti-corruption platform, and (b) despite the fact that he is leading a country in a fight for its very survival, continues to go after corrupt government officials in his own government.

But no, because Biden is willing to support Ukraine, and because we all know Biden is corrupt, it can only be the case that Biden is supporting Ukraine because Zelenskii is personally corrupt as well.

If'n you don't like them shoes, then perhaps try not to walk in them quite so often.

Sex poodle?  That's a first in here.  I don't recall anyone stating such an opinion.
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Online Kamaji

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@Kamaji  this has become a very long thread. Unfortunately I have posted facts several times with supporting links indicating the corruption of both Biden and Zekenskyy and either it wasn't read or just dismissed. I posted Glen Beck's timeline and illustration of the corruption of both Biden, Hunter and Ukraine a couple of times and again I'll just assume it was dismissed.  I normally post links or several to support what I post. 

With the internet one can find links to either prove or disprove a point, so I try to back track to the original source to trace to  truthful facts. Not to say that my research is any better or my posts are any better but normally I do at least try to give some validity to my eventual 'opinion'.  In the case of Glen Beck his research is pretty darn thorough as most of the time his team uses a hands on approach to validate their research before reporting. 


:shrug:

Zelensky is fighting corruption, not engaging in it.  That is what the facts show.  The only conclusion I can draw is that people are uncomfortable with taking the position that the Ukrainians can go eff themselves and be trampled by Russia, and so they need to rationalize that position by convincing themselves that the Ukrainians are really a corrupt bunch and therefore they deserve to be subjugated by Putin in whatever violent, gory method the Russians choose.

That's too bad.

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Online berdie

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As badly as I want Ukraine to be victorious...this is not the time for admittance to NATO.

They have extensive support. Admittance right now could start WWIII.

Online Kamaji

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As badly as I want Ukraine to be victorious...this is not the time for admittance to NATO.

They have extensive support. Admittance right now could start WWIII.

Agreed.

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Yeah, because the CinC of a country that is fighting for its very survival against orcs should clearly have enough time to order a custom-fitted tux from Armani, and maybe travel over to Milan to have it fitted properly.   :rolleyes:

Well, Z has enough time for photoshoots ---- so anything's possible.   :whistle:

.   

Or ......  He could wear one of the suits he already owns ------

.   

Online Maj. Bill Martin

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Bringing up his past antics does nothing more than demonstrate his Reaganesque growth in office, going from a silly little dilettante to the CinC and leader of a nation that has so far held off the Russian orc for more than a year and a half.

Exactly like the Bedtime for Bonzo jokes Democrats used to try to diminish Reagan.

Quote
But, Biden-Bad, so like Pavlov's well-trained dogs, we all gotta salivate anti-Ukraine propaganda every time the bell rings.

That's the tip off. It is one thing to hold the principled position that we shouldn't be spending American dollars on Ukraine. I disagree with that, but I get it.  But if that is someone's only motivation for opposing aid to Ukraine, then they should at least be sympathetic to the Ukrainian cause, and otherwise support any good news that goes their way.

But instead, there is a certain faction of people who do the opposite. They love mocking Zelensky, and seem to take pleasure in any bad news that goes the Ukrainian way.  Those are the people who actually root for Russia, even if they won't admit it openly.  And often it is because they see Ukraine as pro-Biden, and therefore an enemy.

Those type of people probably constitute the majority at TOS, but there are definitely others who fit that description elsewhere.

Offline mountaineer

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Those are the people who actually root for Russia, even if they won't admit it openly.  And often it is because they see Ukraine as pro-Biden, and therefore an enemy.

Those type of people probably constitute the majority at TOS, but there are definitely others who fit that description elsewhere.
It doesn't describe anyone here, as you should know. Those of us who question Biden's largesse toward Ukraine - at our expense - and why it's necessary to send that country billions of dollars have no regard nor respect for Putin.
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Online Maj. Bill Martin

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It doesn't describe anyone here, as you should know.

I don't know that to be true at all.  I put it out there as a "if the shoe fits" observation. From my perspective, there is at least one person here to whom I believe that applies.  Consistent criticism directed towards Ukraine and Ukrainian leadership, repeated posting of anything negative about Ukraine, but a complete absence of equivalent posts about Russia,or really any Russia criticism at all.

If you don't think that applies to anyone here, then I guess you don't think that shoe fits.  Again, that is NOT the same as simply opposing taxpayer money going to Ukraine.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2023, 10:27:17 pm by Maj. Bill Martin »