Nato summit: Allies refuse to give Ukraine timeframe on joining Published 1 hour ago

[bigheadfred]

It doesn't describe anyone here, as you should know. Those of us who question Biden's largesse toward Ukraine - at our expense - and why it's necessary to send that country billions of dollars have no regard nor respect for Putin.

What you said.

[Kamaji]

I don't know that to be true at all.  I put it out there as a "if the shoe fits" observation. From my perspective, there is at least one person here to whom I believe that applies.  Consistent criticism directed towards Ukraine and Ukrainian leadership, repeated posting of anything negative about Ukraine, but a complete absence of equivalent posts about Russia,or really any Russia criticism at all.

If you don't think that applies to anyone here, then I guess you don't think that shoe fits.  Again, that is NOT the same as simply opposing taxpayer money going to Ukraine.

[bigheadfred]

I don't know that to be true at all.  I put it out there as a "if the shoe fits" observation. From my perspective, there is at least one person here to whom I believe that applies.  Consistent criticism directed towards Ukraine and Ukrainian leadership, repeated posting of anything negative about Ukraine, but a complete absence of equivalent posts about Russia,or really any Russia criticism at all.

If you don't think that applies to anyone here, then I guess you don't think that shoe fits.  Again, that is NOT the same as simply opposing taxpayer money going to Ukraine.

Thanks for the post edit.

[GtHawk]

Yeah, because the CinC of a country that is fighting for its very survival against orcs should clearly have enough time to order a custom-fitted tux from Armani, and maybe travel over to Milan to have it fitted properly.

Pretty sure the dude has at least one suit, to me it's disrespectful, no different than the putz from Pennsylvania wearing gym shorts and a hoodie to official functions. I don't consider Zelenskyy to be ignorant or a fool so he wore those clothes to project a particular image and I would say he misjudged. That's my opinion, of course YMMV.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

Pretty sure the dude has at least one suit, to me it's disrespectful, no different than the putz from Pennsylvania wearing gym shorts and a hoodie to official functions. I don't consider Zelenskyy to be ignorant or a fool so he wore those clothes to project a particular image and I would say he misjudged. That's my opinion, of course YMMV.

Well, no doubt about that.  His goal is to be a constant vidual reminder that the world is not at peace, and that his country is in the middle of bloody war against a march larger nation.  And to the extent his presence in that clothing makes him stand out and be a visual reminder of that...I'd say he succeeded.

In terms of misjudging...I'm not so sure about that.  Since this war has begun, his country has managed to hang on much longer than anyone really expected, and in large part that is due to his success in getting international support in terms of weapons, ammunition, supplies, etc..  I don't think his goal is "I want to be respected as a national leader".  I think its "I want to do anything I can to help my country in this war", and part of that is ensuring Ukraine isn't forgotten as a bit of inconvenient unpleasantness as Mr. and Mrs. FancyPants have their cocktail parties.

I mean, there's a mental trap I think we all fall into of thinking everything should be "normal" except for the people in the actual trenches.  But imagine if 20% of our country was under the control of a larger invading power, huge numbers of our people had been killed and more were dying every day, bombs were dropping regularly, the economy was collapsing, etc..  We'd all be desperate as hell, and we'd demand that our leader not act like it is just "business as usual".

To put it differently, I think those images probably play a lot different in Ukraine than they might among some here.  And that the image of him in a fancy suit sipping champagne and eating duck foam confit or whatever might not sit to well with his suffering people at home.

I respect the guy.  So many chumps would have fled and taken the easy way our, or cut a deal...and he didn't.

[mountaineer]

David Sacks
@DavidSacks
A FRAUGHT MEETING IN VILNIUS

Despite Biden’s best efforts to put a happy face on it, Vilnius will be remembered as the NATO Summit where tensions boiled over. Zelensky denounced the Alliance’s admission policy as “absurd” and disrespectful.
UK Secretary of Defense Ben Wallace chastised Zelensky for ingratitude.
Lindsey Graham attacked the Biden administration for weakness.
Ben Hodges criticized Jake Sullivan for lack of “strategic bravery.”
Even NAFO mascot Adam Kinzinger no longer appears to be a “fella.”

The optics were even harsher than the words, with the NATO elites turning their backs on a frustrated Zelensky. Biden’s assurance that Zelensky is “stuck” with the U.S. may come as cold comfort to both nations now that the Ukrainian counteroffensive has failed to meet expectations, huge amounts of expensive Western armor lay in ruins smoldering on the battlefield, Ukrainian casualties are horrific, and the U.S. has run out of 155mm artillery shells to give, forcing America to debase itself by sending cluster bombs. The war effort is increasingly a shambles and the War Party is starting to turn on each other.
4:41 PM · Jul 12, 2023

[Right_in_Virginia]

David Sacks
@DavidSacks
A FRAUGHT MEETING IN VILNIUS

The optics were even harsher than the words, with the NATO elites turning their backs on a frustrated Zelensky. Biden’s assurance that Zelensky is “stuck” with the U.S. may come as cold comfort to both nations now that the Ukrainian counteroffensive has failed to meet expectations, huge amounts of expensive Western armor lay in ruins smoldering on the battlefield, Ukrainian casualties are horrific, and the U.S. has run out of 155mm artillery shells to give, forcing America to debase itself by sending cluster bombs. The war effort is increasingly a shambles and the War Party is starting to turn on each other.
4:41 PM · Jul 12, 2023

The new reality ......

[mountaineer]

The new reality...

[libertybele]

Yeah, because the CinC of a country that is fighting for its very survival against orcs should clearly have enough time to order a custom-fitted tux from Armani, and maybe travel over to Milan to have it fitted properly.

A tux?  At least a pair of dress pants and shirt, and I 'm sure he has a suit or two that he could have worn.

[ScottinVA]

As much as I despise Putin and his invading orcs, this stance on Ukraine’s accession to NATO is the proper one. 

[sneakypete]

FROM WIKIPEDIA:

According to the Federal Election Commission, Sacks donated $50,000 to Republican Party candidate Mitt Romney's presidential campaign in 2012. In 2016, he donated nearly $70,000 to Democratic Party candidate Hillary Clinton's presidential campaign.[56]

In the 2022 San Francisco Board of Education recall elections of members Collins, Moliga, and Lopez, Sacks gave one of the largest contributions to support the recall.[57][58] He is also a significant booster of Republican candidates, sponsoring a spring 2022 fundraiser for GOP senate hopefuls including J. D. Vance and Blake Masters alongside his former colleague and partner Keith Rabois.[59]

On 24 May 2023, Sacks was the moderator when Ron DeSantis announced his 2024 presidential campaign on Twitter Spaces. He praised DeSantis and donated $50,000 to his campaign.[60] Later in June 2023, Sacks hosted a $10,000/plate fundraiser for Robert F. Kennedy Jr..[61]

This guy is all OVER the bleeping place,politically. Donating to  Romney for President one day,and Bubbette! Clinton for President the next.

What this tells me is that he is a whore for sale to the highest bidder,and his ONLY  loyalty  is to himself.

[Kamaji]

A tux?  At least a pair of dress pants and shirt, and I 'm sure he has a suit or two that he could have worn.

Why?  So he can pretend that all's well with the world?  He no doubt intentionally dressed as he did to emphasize that he and his country are under dire threat of extermination right now.

Here's the thing:  if he had shown up dressed to the nines - as so many seem to want him to have done - then he would be criticized for being just another one of the elites, and his outfit just more "proof" of his corrupt elitism.

[mountaineer]

Everyone there was in business attire (not tuxedos).

I think they all would have understood - and it wouldn't have slipped their minds in the least - that his country is at war if he'd worn a regular suit, even without a tie. Was it essential or even vaguely important that he wear a suit? Of course not, and no one is saying that. It's just amusing that any might think the "dire threat of extermination" will be overlooked if he doesn't don Castro garb. But, of course, we all remember that Churchill and FDR always wore fatigues to their meetings, so you may be on to something.

[Kamaji]

Everyone there was in business attire. I think they all would have understood - and it wouldn't have slipped their minds in the least - that his country is at war if he'd worn a regular suit, even without a tie. Was it essential or even vaguely important that he wear a suit? Of course not, and no one is saying that. It's just amusing that any might think the "dire threat of extermination" will be overlooked if he doesn't don Castro garb. But, of course, we all remember that Churchill and FDR always wore fatigues to their meetings, so you may be on to something.

Ok, if you say so.

What he wore got a lot more attention - and attention to his cause - than if he'd shown up as just "one of the boys" in his James Bond tux.

Except that he would have been lambasted here for showing his true colors and being just another corrupt politician who shows up to press the flesh.

He knew what he was doing, and he did exactly the right thing.  The fact that you are so triggered by it proves that.

[mountaineer]

Please give it a rest. No one's triggered, just amused.
And no one wore a tux. No one is suggesting he should have taken an Armani tux to Vilnias. 

[Kamaji]

Please give it a rest. No one's triggered, just amused.
And no one wore a tux. No one is suggesting he should have taken an Armani tux to Vilnias. 

If you say so ....

[Timber Rattler]

A tux?  At least a pair of dress pants and shirt, and I 'm sure he has a suit or two that he could have worn.

Yes, Zelensky has a suit...several in fact.  But he's projecting the image of a President at war, trying to save his country.  I don't get bent out of shape over his green fatigues. 

[Kamaji]

Yes, Zelensky has a suit...several in fact.  But he's projecting the image of a President at war, trying to save his country.  I don't get bent out of shape over his green fatigues. 

Exactly.