Biden to send thousands of cluster bombs to Ukraine despite them being against US law and banned in

[mystery-ak]

Biden to send thousands of cluster bombs to Ukraine despite them being against US law and banned in 120 countries - a year after Jen Psaki said using them 'would potentially be a war crime'

    The White House has since December been weighing up providing cluster munitions to Ukraine to help them in their war against the Russian invasion
    The weapons are known to cause grievous injury to civilians, especially children: they are banned in more than 100 countries, but not the U.S. and Ukraine
    Five days into the war Biden's then-press secretary Jen Psaki responded to reports of Russia using cluster munitions and accused them of war crimes

By Harriet Alexander For Dailymail.com

Published: 01:55 EDT, 7 July 2023 | Updated: 07:11 EDT, 7 July 2023

 The US has decided to send cluster munitions to Ukraine to help its military push back Russian forces entrenched along the front lines - despite the ex-White House press secretary saying last year that Russia's use of the bombs was a 'war crime'.

The Biden administration has been weighing up a decision on sending the munitions since December, and is expected to announce on Friday it will send thousands of them as part of a new military aid package worth $800million.

Cluster munitions explode and disperse a series of smaller bombs over a wide area, often killing civilians. More than 120 nations have signed a 15-year-old treaty banning their use, but Ukraine and Russia have both deployed them - and Ukraine's supplies of all types of ammunition are dwindling.

When, five days into the war, Jen Psaki, then the White House press secretary, was asked about the Russian use of cluster munitions, she said: 'We have seen the reports. If that were true, it would potentially be a war crime.'

The White House has now shifted its position, and is overruling a law which bans the transfer of cluster munitions with a failure rate of more than 1 percent. Some with a higher failure rate will be sent to Ukraine.

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https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12273815/Biden-send-thousands-cluster-bombs-Ukraine-800M-package.html

[Right_in_Virginia]

Germany opposes sending cluster munitions to Ukraine, minister says
Reuters, Jul 7, 2023

VIENNA, July 7 (Reuters) - Germany opposes sending cluster munitions to Ukraine, its foreign minister said on Friday, a day after U.S. officials said Washington was planning to provide Kyiv with the weapons, widely denounced for killing and maiming civilians.

Human rights organisations oppose such a move and German Foreign Minister Annalena Baerbock said that Germany, as one of 111 states party to the Convention on Cluster Munitions (CCM), did as well. The United States is not a party to the convention.

Asked for a comment on what U.S. officials had said, Baerbock told reporters at a climate conference in Vienna: "I have followed the media reports. For us, as a state party, the Oslo agreement applies."

Baerbock was referring to the CCM, which was opened for signature in the Norwegian capital in 2008. It bans the use, stockpiling, production and transfer of cluster munitions.

The munitions typically release large numbers of smaller bomblets that can kill indiscriminately over a wide area, threatening civilians. Bomblets that fail to explode pose a danger for years after a conflict ends.


https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/germany-opposes-sending-cluster-munitions-ukraine-minister-says-2023-07-07/

[Right_in_Virginia]

When, five days into the war, Jen Psaki, then the White House press secretary, was asked about the Russian use of cluster munitions, she said: 'We have seen the reports. If that were true, it would potentially be a war crime.'

Oops.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

Artillery-delivered dual-purpose ICM rounds -which qualify as "cluster bombs" - are incredibly effective.  And the Russians are using them in bunches because of that.

I keep hearing this claim that it's "against U.S. law", but the only thing I found is a 2008 DoD policy directive signed by Robert Gates.  But that's not a law, and it certainly isn't binding on a President.  Seems the media is rather sloppily referring to it as a law simply because they oppose the shipment of those munitions.

Anyone aware of what that alleged law actually is?

[Kamaji]

Considering that Ukraine - unlike the Russian orcs - doesn't target civilians, their use of cluster munitions is unlikely to lead to a war crimes violation, unlike the actions of the orcs, which have already led to several war crimes violations.

[Right_in_Virginia]

Considering that Ukraine doesn't target civilians

Except, of course, those living in Donbas.

[Kamaji]

Except, of course, those living in Donbas.

Russian agitprop troops and separatists who started the fight.  That doesn't make them innocent civilians.  But then, a crypto-nazi like yourself wouldn't understand the difference.

[Right_in_Virginia]

The Ukrainian government has been slaughtering its own citizens in Donbas since 2014.  And, it is not funny.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

The Ukrainian government has been slaughtering its own citizens in Donbas since 2014.  And, it is not funny.

It's always nice when the pro-Russian mask drops so we can see people for who they really support.

The Donbass was a crapstorm of brutality from both sides ever since Russia armed and instigated that civil war in 2014.

The Russians are now regularly slaughtering people in Kherson and Zaporizhzhia as well, who the Russians now claim are actually their own citizens.

[Kamaji]

The Ukrainian government has been slaughtering its own citizens in Donbas since 2014.  And, it is not funny.

No, it hasn't.  But what's funny is your pathological pro-nazism.

[Kamaji]

It's always nice when the pro-Russian mask drops so we can see people for who they really support.

The Donbass was a crapstorm of brutality from both sides ever since Russia armed and instigated that civil war in 2014.

The Russians are now regularly slaughtering people in Kherson and Zaporizhzhia as well, who the Russians now claim are actually their own citizens.

[mountaineer]

Here is Jen Psaki in 2022 saying that using cluster bombs is a war crime

https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status/1677436400755527681

[Right_in_Virginia]

It's always nice when the pro-Russian mask drops so we can see people for who they really support.

The West orchestrated and pushed for this proxy war with Russia and is behind its every escalation.  I prefer you explain why we're doing this rather than toss Biden's insults at me @Maj. Bill Martin

While you're at it, take a shot at explaining the US interest we are protecting while we bankrupt our treasury, deplete our military readiness, help flood the black market with our weapons to the benefit of our enemies, and ignore the invasion on our own border for the likes of Ukraine --- a renowned black hole of international corruption masquerading as a country.

[Right_in_Virginia]

No, it hasn't.  But what's funny is your pathological pro-nazism.

Oh, stop with the hyperbole and do the research.

[Kamaji]

Oh, stop with the hyperbole and do the research.

I have.  Which is why I can confidently say that you are ignoring the facts in order to advance your own fascist/nazi sympathies.  What's the matter?  Lose the password to your stormfront account?

[Kamaji]

Eight Hundred Years of Russian Despotism:  https://quillette.com/2023/07/07/eight-hundred-years-of-russian-despotism/

For Putin, wiping the Ukraine from the face of the Earth is a religious mission.

[Hoodat]

The Donbass was a crapstorm of brutality from both sides ever since Russia armed and instigated that civil war in 2014.

Truth.

The Russians are now regularly slaughtering people in Kherson and Zaporizhzhia as well, who the Russians now claim are actually their own citizens.

More truth.

[Hoodat]

When, five days into the war, Jen Psaki, then the White House press secretary, was asked about the Russian use of cluster munitions, she said: 'We have seen the reports. If that were true, it would potentially be a war crime.'

Oops.

The reports were true.  Russia used cluster munitions against civilians.  And yes, that is a war crime.  This was well documented on the first thread.   And while the Russians were slaughtering Ukrainian civilians, you were calling them "liberators" and "protectors".  Your credibility on this war is less than zero.

[Hoodat]

The Ukrainian government has been slaughtering its own citizens in Donbas since 2014.  And, it is not funny.

2014 is the year that Russia violated Ukrainian sovereignty and started this war by invading Luhansk, Donetsk, and Crimea.  But then you knew that already.  And no, your lies are not funny.

[Hoodat]

Here is Jen Psaki in 2022 saying that using cluster bombs is a war crime

For the record, I do not support giving cluster munitions to Ukraine.  The only reason Biden would be doing this is to enrich himself (or his political allies) personally.  They are not necessary for the continued success of this counter-attack.  Money could be much better spent taking out the Kerch Bridge permanently.  But that would end the war much sooner, and Biden isn't interested in doing that.  If Biden gets re-elected, expect this conflict to continue through 2028.

[Kamaji]

Oops.


The reports were true.  Russia used cluster munitions against civilians.  And yes, that is a war crime.  This was well documented on the first thread.   And while the Russians were slaughtering Ukrainian civilians, you were calling them "liberators" and "protectors".  Your credibility on this war is less than zero.

[bigheadfred]

For the record, I do not support giving cluster munitions to Ukraine.  The only reason Biden would be doing this is to enrich himself (or his political allies) personally.  They are not necessary for the continued success of this counter-attack.  Money could be much better spent taking out the Kerch Bridge permanently.  But that would end the war much sooner, and Biden isn't interested in doing that.  If Biden gets re-elected, expect this conflict to continue through 2028.

There are reports of the Ukes counter offensive faltering. Do you think this is a bit of a desperation move to get the offensive moving? @Hoodat

[Right_in_Virginia]

Tucker interview (Video)

https://twitter.com/ColumbiaBugle/status/1677359453065158676

[Hoodat]

There are reports of the Ukes counter offensive faltering. Do you think this is a bit of a desperation move to get the offensive moving? @Hoodat

@bigheadfred

No.  Cluster munitions will not speed up the offensive (nor do I think Biden wants the offensive sped up).  I just think Ukraine is being very careful right now.  Russia's troop reserves have been depleted.  Their troops are literally stuck in place where they are and are unable to be redeployed to shore up weak spots.  Ukraine has been very active in targeting munition supply depots and artillery units.  You will see a breakthrough at some point, but there is no hurry.

There is a huge amount of innovation that has come out of the Ukrainian side.  The best thing we can do is to support that innovation and to increase  the things that have worked (e.g. M-777s) than to add something new like cluster bombs.

[Right_in_Virginia]

I have.  Which is why I can confidently say that you are ignoring the facts in order to advance your own fascist/nazi sympathies.

You could not be more wrong if you tried.  It's a shame you don't recognize this:  I am advancing American interests and American security.

It appears there is only room for hyperbole, laughing memes and cartoons in your wheelhouse. How proud you must be.