Updated: submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean: Coast Guard

[sneakypete]

@sneakypete
In case you're too effed up to google it, automobiles are subject to a very comprehensive set of design and testing criteria, and an auto that doesn't pass those criteria cannot legally be sold.  Wikipedia even has a helpful little article on the U.S. federal standards:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Motor_Vehicle_Safety_Standards

Duh.

@Kamaji

So what?

There are still tens of thousand of incompetent,intoxicated,drugged,half-blind,etc,etc,etc getting into a car and driving every day.

Do you  think we should ban privately owned cars because of this?

At WHAT point  would you start demanding people be free to make their own  decisions?

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

If you’re dumb enough to get on this thing then this just Darwin imo. If it affected innocent people that would be different.

[Kamaji]

@Kamaji

So what?

There are still tens of thousand of incompetent,intoxicated,drugged,half-blind,etc,etc,etc getting into a car and driving every day.

Do you  think we should ban privately owned cars because of this?

At WHAT point  would you start demanding people be free to make their own  decisions?

@sneakypete

What in God's good name are you babbling on about?

Automobiles are subject to stringent safety standards.  Boilers are subject to stringent safety standards.  F*cking hot water heaters and space heaters are subject to stringent safety standards.  Hell, the f*cking guns you used to kill viet cong were subject to safety standards.

Why shouldn't submersibles that are being made available for public use not be subject to stringent safety standards?

[Kamaji]

If you’re dumb enough to get on this thing then this just Darwin imo. If it affected innocent people that would be different.

So the 19 y.o. kid who got squashed and incinerated doesn't count as an innocent person?

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

So the 19 y.o. kid who got squashed and incinerated doesn't count as an innocent person?

Well he was an adult and he should’ve listened to his gut. Yeah he might be the only one I feel sorry for.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

If someone assures you something is safe, here’s a hint:they maybe lying.

[Kamaji]

If someone assures you something is safe, here’s a hint:they maybe lying.

And maybe they're not.

[Kamaji]

Fascinating to see ideology trump common sense.

[sneakypete]

@sneakypete

What in God's good name are you babbling on about?

Automobiles are subject to stringent safety standards.  Boilers are subject to stringent safety standards.  F*cking hot water heaters and space heaters are subject to stringent safety standards.  Hell, the f*cking guns you used to kill viet cong were subject to safety standards.

Why shouldn't submersibles that are being made available for public use not be subject to stringent safety standards?

@Kamaji

"Public Use"?????

Nobody is buying a ticket to ride in one of these things using lunch money. ONLY the Uber Wealthy can afford a ride,and they damn sure have the means/resources to investigate the danger and make their own decisions.

Yes,sometimes those decisions will be bad ones even after receiving advise to not take  the chance. So what?
Nobody forced them to go on the diver,and they paid big bucks to do it.

I might  note  that the Wright  Brothers  were taking enormous risks at the time when they flew their home made airplane off a sand dune in NC.

So did the people who  flew mail routes,etc,etc,etc in the early days of aviation.

They ALL were aware they  were taking risks,and they  were willing to take those risks.

[Kamaji]

@Kamaji

"Public Use"?????

Nobody is buying a ticket to ride in one of these things using lunch money. ONLY the Uber Wealthy can afford a ride,and they damn sure have the means/resources to investigate the danger and make their own decisions.

Yes,sometimes those decisions will be bad ones even after receiving advise to not take  the chance. So what?
Nobody forced them to go on the diver,and they paid big bucks to do it.

I might  note  that the Wright  Brothers  were taking enormous risks at the time when they flew their home made airplane off a sand dune in NC.

So did the people who  flew mail routes,etc,etc,etc in the early days of aviation.

They ALL were aware they  were taking risks,and they  were willing to take those risks.

If you say so, Chief, you're the genius here.

[roamer_1]

If someone assures you something is safe, here’s a hint:they maybe lying.

There is a certain complacency that comes with longevity... It's been working all this time, so it will be fine again... When actually the reverse is true. The more something is used, the more critical maintenance becomes. You can literally see it everywhere, but none so much as carnival rides. The more I became acquainted with the mechanics of things, the less I would allow my children to participate.

This might be something like that - more rigid protocols make way for the laxity of familiarity...
Not saying that's true, Jussayin.

[sneakypete]

If someone assures you something is safe, here’s a hint:they maybe lying.

@Weird Tolkienish Figure

The same could be said if someone tells you it is dangerous to try something.

At what point do you accept responsibility for your own decisions and your own life?

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

And maybe they're not.

Use your common sense. Taking an airline flight is much safer than some jury rigged pvc pipe deal that’s only been down there a handful of times.

[Kamaji]

Use your common sense. Taking an airline flight is much safer than some jury rigged pvc pipe deal that’s only been down there a handful of times.

I am using my common sense, which is why I fail to see why things like submersibles should not be subject to safety standards, the same as my car, the roads I drive on, the bridges I cross, the house I live in, the hot water heater in my basement, the space heater in my office, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.

[sneakypete]

If you say so, Chief, you're the genius here.

@Kamaji

A cheap shot that is beneath  you. NOBODY but you  mentioned "genius" here. I was only citing the right of a FREE people to make their own  judgement calls when  trying something new and risky.

[sneakypete]

Use your common sense. Taking an airline flight is much safer than some jury rigged pvc pipe deal that’s only been down there a handful of times.

@Weird Tolkienish Figure

Did anyone explain that to the Wright Brothers?

Or the first astronauts?

Or maybe they were just retards that didn't know any  better,and someone should have stopped them?

[Smokin Joe]

@sneakypete
In case you're too effed up to google it, automobiles are subject to a very comprehensive set of design and testing criteria, and an auto that doesn't pass those criteria cannot legally be sold.  Wikipedia even has a helpful little article on the U.S. federal standards:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Motor_Vehicle_Safety_Standards

Duh.

Pretty hard to run those (destructive) tests on one-off vehicles. It's different when you make them by the hundreds of thousands. And it's a lot different setting up to run a car into a concrete block than it is to simulate the effects of 5500 PSI on a complete pressure hull, especially when made of novel materials.

[Kamaji]

Pretty hard to run those (destructive) tests on one-off vehicles. It's different when you make them by the hundreds of thousands. And it's a lot different setting up to run a car into a concrete block than it is to simulate the effects of 5500 PSI on a complete pressure hull, especially when made of novel materials.

Tough shit.  Then someone shouldn't be allowed to sell rides on it until they've done sufficient testing.

[roamer_1]

I am using my common sense, which is why I fail to see why things like submersibles should not be subject to safety standards, the same as my car, the roads I drive on, the bridges I cross, the house I live in, the hot water heater in my basement, the space heater in my office, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.

That's right, I suppose... But that depends on the flag she flies, and who would be the determining entity. Deep sea subs are an engineering feat nearly as complicated in engineering as a space capsule. Crazy complicated. What entity understands that enough to say it is safe, other than the engineers that made it?

And on the other hand, I have driven highly modded vehicles all my life, to include inventions functioning off-road. None of them were ever inspected. 

[Smokin Joe]

@Weird Tolkienish Figure

Did anyone explain that to the Wright Brothers?

Or the first astronauts?

Or maybe they were just retards that didn't know any  better,and someone should have stopped them?

Challenger

Columbia

Sh*t happens, and hopefully, people learn from it.
Someone will do a study on carbon fiber pressure hull degradation over multiple pressure cycles, and either the materials will be abandoned, or the manufacturing process improved.
The richer the rewards, the higher the stakes.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

I am using my common sense, which is why I fail to see why things like submersibles should not be subject to safety standards, the same as my car, the roads I drive on, the bridges I cross, the house I live in, the hot water heater in my basement, the space heater in my office, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.

This was done in international waters iirc. I believe there are already safety standards in place, but this was too far out. On the other hand submersibles are such a niche thing I’m not sure it warrants more regulations.  Bottom line: do your due dilligance before stepping on one of these things. They have independent agencies to rate these things.

[mountaineer]

Report: OceanGate Bought Carbon Fiber ‘Past Shelf Life’ for Titanic Sub
Elaine Mallon
27 Jun 2023

Stockton Rush revealed in a conversation over cigars with Travel Weekly editor-in-chief Arnie Weissmann that he bought expired carbon fiber graded for airplanes at a discount for the Titan submersible that met a tragic end with five people on board.

“I responded right away, saying, ‘Don’t you have any concerns about that?’” Weissmann told the Washington Post. “He was very dismissive and said: ‘No, it’s perfectly fine. Having all these certifications for airplanes is one thing, but the carbon fiber was perfectly sound.’”

Rush invited Weissmann to take part in the dive, but due to his schedule, Weissmann had to back out, the Post reported.  ...

Years before the doomed Titanic submarine dive, experts raised concerns regarding the structural integrity of the sub’s design and the use of carbon fiber.

Rush admitted that he “broke some rules” by using carbon fiber—which isn’t as safe as titanium or steel for deep sea dives—for the purpose of elongating the cylinder-shaped cabin. However, this design choice caused increased “pressure loads in the midsections, which increases fatigue and delamination loads,” Jasper Graham-Jones, an associate professor of mechanical and marine engineering at the University of Plymouth in the United Kingdom told PBS.  ...

Breitbart

[berdie]

@Kamaji

A cheap shot that is beneath  you. NOBODY but you  mentioned "genius" here. I was only citing the right of a FREE people to make their own  judgement calls when  trying something new and risky.

I agree. I equate this with attempts going to the top of Everest. Not even new, but certainly risky. It's a personal choice. Ya pay your money, ya take your chance.

It's nothing like every day items like cars, water heaters, etc.

[Bigun]

Just in case anyone doesn't know already, I will choose freedom over a nanny every damned time!

And BTW: The argument proceeding here is far from inconsequential

[sneakypete]

Challenger

Columbia

Sh*t happens, and hopefully, people learn from it.
Someone will do a study on carbon fiber pressure hull degradation over multiple pressure cycles, and either the materials will be abandoned, or the manufacturing process improved.
The richer the rewards, the higher the stakes.

@Smokin Joe

And THERE it is. No new technology advances without risks of one type or another.