Author Topic: Killer whales teaching their young to attack ships in Europe, witnesses claim  (Read 1699 times)

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Offline Kamaji

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Killer whales teaching their young to attack ships in Europe, witnesses claim

By Jon Levine
May 20, 2023

Killer whales appear to be teaching their young to attack boats in Europe, multiple eyewitnesses to the events report.

There have been dozens of orca attacks in the Strait of Gilbralter since 2020, in which the beasts ram boats, targeting their rudders and often causing serious damage.

Scientists now think one traumatized orca may have sparked the phenomenon.

A killer whale dubbed White Gladis by researchers may have endured a “critical moment of agony,” believed to be either a collision with a vessel or some sort of entrapment, then went on the attack, researcher Alfredo López Fernandez, a biologist at the University of Aveiro in Portugal, told livescience.com.

“That traumatized orca is the one that started this behavior of physical contact with the boat,” López Fernandez told the outlet.

*  *  *

Source:  https://nypost.com/2023/05/20/killer-whales-are-attacking-and-sinking-boats/

Offline Kamaji

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Rise of the Orcas!!

Online GtHawk

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Of course it was all instigated by crazy 'White' Gladys!

Offline mystery-ak

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May 27, 2023 6:00am EDT
Killer whales may be attacking boats as revenge for injured matriarch: scientists
The first orca may have suffered a 'critical moment of agony' that caused the aggression
By Peter Aitken | Fox News


Orcas have reportedly attacked and sunk three boats off the coast of Spain in apparent acts of revenge that experts worry other whales in their pod might copy.

"The little ones shook the rudder at the back while the big one repeatedly backed up and rammed the ship with full force from the side," Werner Schafelberger told German publication Yacht. "The two little orcas observed the bigger one's technique and, with a slight run-up, they too slammed into the boat."

Hundreds of incidents between orcas and boats off the Iberian coast have occurred since May 2020, with all but a handful resulting in only minor injuries or damage. However, the attacks have grown more frequent and a few have led to the boats sinking – the latest such attack happening just this month.

Marine biologist Alfredo Lopez Fernandez told Live Science that the lead whale, a female orca scientists have called White Gladis, suffered a "critical moment of agony," likely a collision with a boat or entanglement with a fishing line, that turned her more aggressive.

The whales approach the boats from behind, striking the rudder or hull of the boat, sailors and other eyewitnesses have said.

"That traumatized orca is the one that started this behavior of physical contact with the boat," Fernandez said.

"We do not interpret that the orcas are teaching the young, although the behavior has spread to the young vertically, simply by imitation, and later horizontally among them, because they consider it something important in their lives," he added.

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https://www.foxnews.com/world/killer-whales-may-be-attacking-boats-revenge-injured-matriarch-scientists
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Offline Kamaji

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Rise of the Orcas!  The old movies all got it wrong.

Online Smokin Joe

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What did they not get?

They're called KILLER whales, right?

FAFO!
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Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

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Offline Kamaji

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What did they not get?

They're called KILLER whales, right?

FAFO!

Yes, but what's interesting is that this is new behavior that appears to be learned and/or spread through the population in a communicated, rather than inherited, way.

These whales are demonstrating potentially sophisticated cultural and intellectual skills.

Online Smokin Joe

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Yes, but what's interesting is that this is new behavior that appears to be learned and/or spread through the population in a communicated, rather than inherited, way.

These whales are demonstrating potentially sophisticated cultural and intellectual skills.
They already have demonstrated such skills and communication hunting seals on ice floes.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1VEwsI4SlY

Applying that ability to a threat response isn't that great a leap.

I am only surprised this hasn't been observed sooner, but maybe those threat responses were effective enough to leave no witnesses.  :shrug:
« Last Edit: May 27, 2023, 08:05:45 pm by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Kamaji

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They already have demonstrated such skills and communication hunting seals on ice floes.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1VEwsI4SlY

Applying that ability to a threat response isn't that great a leap.

It is a great leap when it's unprecedented behaviour and, apparently, in response to an injury sustained by the pod's matriarch:  https://nypost.com/2023/05/27/killer-whales-attacking-boats-to-avenge-injured-matriarch/

Online Smokin Joe

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It is a great leap when it's unprecedented behaviour and, apparently, in response to an injury sustained by the pod's matriarch:  https://nypost.com/2023/05/27/killer-whales-attacking-boats-to-avenge-injured-matriarch/
The only thing unprecedented is our observation of it, against human vessels.

Quote

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBGNR_3Qn9E

Self defense remains one of the fundamental natural rights, regardless of species.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Kamaji

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The only thing unprecedented is our observation of it, against human vessels.

Self defense remains one of the fundamental natural rights, regardless of species.

Most species do not demonstrate the level of intra-species specific communication these Orcas are demonstrating.  When was the last time a wolf from three packs away came after someone because that person had injured another wolf in a completely different pack?

Online Smokin Joe

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Most species do not demonstrate the level of intra-species specific communication these Orcas are demonstrating.  When was the last time a wolf from three packs away came after someone because that person had injured another wolf in a completely different pack?
Amoebas don't respond to attacks on other amoebas, either.

Lets stick to the critters in question, please.

Orcas have demonstrated the ability to teach other members of their species to cooperate in hunting behaviours, well documented in the first video I linked.

This indicates the ability of at least some members of the species to communicate, to teach, and to learn new behaviours to be more effective hunters.

The motive is not as important as the ability.

In the case of the Orcas hunting great white sharks, not only is food a possible motive, but protecting the pod from injury, whether that be protecting juveniles (children) or adults, invoking that self-defense motivation is another possibility. Demonstrated behaviour.

One might claim that self-defense is instinctive, but with the previous video may well be taught/learned behaviour as well.

Now, there have been documented attacks on sailing (not motor) vessels off the Iberian Peninsula since 2020, according to the article, which is three years of a documented, specific style of attacks against those vessels which is apparently intended to disable the vessels.

Not a one-off, but a number of incidents over an extended period of time (years). That one pod exhibits these behaviours may be only a matter of motivation (one pod retaliating to a perceived threat that other pods have not perceived), or it may be the result of a more advanced group.

(As an aside, some humans developed the wheel first, others only as they found it necessary/expedient, and some did not. Variation in intelligence and perceived need can and does vary among the members, or even subunits of a species, and Homo sapiens are a great example).

Those attacks have a (proven) methodology. The specificity of attacking sailing vessels' rudders (as opposed to those with propellers engaged) indicates knowledge of a vulnerability that can be exploited without risk of being sliced up by the prop, and one that that will disable the vessel.

Takeaways: Those critters are intelligent enough to know what works. Those critters can communicate. They are capable of teaching and learning. By their choice of vessels to attack, they apparently are able to assess risk as well, and avoid it.

But back to canines, putting herding dogs together, they will still work cooperatively to herd livestock, they communicate through sound, and will get the job done, sometimes without even sorting out 'pack status', often because their dominance hierarchy includes humans calling the shots. 

Wolves are more pack oriented (closed cultural units), but the bias of observers might not allow for recognition of cooperative efforts between pack elements that are not related, and such may not even exist as wolves are territorial in nature and less likely to accept a new member without the whole dominance thing being sorted out. Feral dogs of different breeds will 'pack up' and cooperate  much like wolves.

YMMV Please watch the videos and enlighten yourself.

I remain unsurprised that the Orcas are capable of this.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2023, 08:52:29 pm by Smokin Joe »
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Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Fishrrman

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I'm currently reading "In The Heart of the Sea", which tells the story of the Essex, the whaling ship that was attacked and sank by a sperm whale, with only a handful of survivors escaping alive -- which was the inspiration behind Melville's "Moby Dick".

Indeed, just read the chapter titled "The Attack" this afternoon...

Offline Mod5

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Merged.

Online roamer_1

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I am only surprised this hasn't been observed sooner, but maybe those threat responses were effective enough to leave no witnesses.  :shrug:

Coastal Natives are probably shrugging their shoulders and saying 'tolja so'...  :whistle:

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Coastal Natives are probably shrugging their shoulders and saying 'tolja so'...  :whistle:
Now, now, that's just 'anecdotal' and not real evidence of such behaviour. Those coastal folks don't have an advanced degree in wildlife behaviour.

(Such is the nonsense I have seen...against a lady who had observed a species' behaviour for over 60 years, and in another case, until a rancher backed up his  pickup at the DNR and unloaded a dead cougar on their doorstep--putting an end to the official assertion there were no cougar in ND.)
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Online roamer_1

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Most species do not demonstrate the level of intra-species specific communication these Orcas are demonstrating.  When was the last time a wolf from three packs away came after someone because that person had injured another wolf in a completely different pack?

Well, It ain't a slight on the whales, but yours is a bad example... Canines teach.... pick up habits and efficiencies from each other...

Anyone that works dogs can tell you that.

Offline Kamaji

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Well, It ain't a slight on the whales, but yours is a bad example... Canines teach.... pick up habits and efficiencies from each other...

Anyone that works dogs can tell you that.

Not at this level of symbolic sophistication they don't.

Online roamer_1

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Not at this level of symbolic sophistication they don't.

Oh yeah they do. A pup will learn from an elder dog what all the whistles and commands mean... And a dog brought in will learn from the locals...

Cowboys all have different signals and whistles - It ain't like with sheepherders where all the commands are standardized...

Yet cowboys and their dogs come together from diverse places during roundup... and them dogs, in a day or two, get everything that's going on, and can work the herd together.

Understand that I am not against your argument about whales - Just the slight against canines.
In fact, working with animals as I have, I think the most of em are smarter than we let on.... Even something as dumb as a cow thinks.

Offline Wingnut

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Killer whales teaching their young to attack ships in Europe

That's a whale of a tale.
I am just a Technicolor Dream Cat riding this kaleidoscope of life.

Offline sneakypete

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Well, It ain't a slight on the whales, but yours is a bad example... Canines teach.... pick up habits and efficiencies from each other...

Anyone that works dogs can tell you that.

@roamer_1

So do cats.

In fact,I can't think of a warm-blooded species that doesn't do this.
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Offline berdie

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@roamer_1

So do cats.

In fact,I can't think of a warm-blooded species that doesn't do this.


Elephants are a great example of this behavior.

Offline sneakypete

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Elephants are a great example of this behavior.

@berdie

No kidding.

So are Rhino's. From what I have heard,they may be the most dangerous animals in Africa.
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@roamer_1

So do cats.

In fact,I can't think of a warm-blooded species that doesn't do this.

@sneakypete

That's right... This is one of the places I really depart from what science supposes...
I think ALL creatures, great and small, possess a nephesh (close to spirit, soul), and with it, an intellect. Some different than others, some greater than others, but it's there.

Native Americans are closer to the truth on this than science.

Offline sneakypete

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@sneakypete

That's right... This is one of the places I really depart from what science supposes...
I think ALL creatures, great and small, possess a nephesh (close to spirit, soul), and with it, an intellect. Some different than others, some greater than others, but it's there.

Native Americans are closer to the truth on this than science.

@roamer_1

Can't find fault with ANY of that.
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!