Kevin McCarthy’s fate on the line, House conservatives warn speaker’s election could take days

[Maj. Bill Martin]

Non-existent?  Do tell.

It'll be pretty much the three groups we see right now.  200 or so in the mass of the GOP, including at least 10-15 who aren't conservative at all, 20-25 FC's who won't compromise on anything, and then 213 Democrats.  No majority.  And, a powerless Speaker unable to crack heads. 

I mean, I'm pretty sure that's part of the discussion McCarthy and his allies are having right now.  Even if he gets the Speakership, how is the House going to work under these rules, and if this FC faction holds them hostage on every issue?

I mean, there's the obvious and inevitable answer to that, but I don't think many of us will like it.

[Wingnut]

It'll be pretty much the three groups we see right now.  200 or so in the mass of the GOP, including at least 10-15 who aren't conservative at all, 20-25 FC's who won't compromise on anything, and then 213 Democrats.  No majority.  And, a powerless Speaker unable to crack heads. 

I mean, I'm pretty sure that's part of the discussion McCarthy and his allies are having right now.  Even if he gets the Speakership, how is the House going to work under these rules, and if this FC faction holds them hostage on every issue?

I mean, there's the obvious and inevitable answer to that, but I don't think many of us will like it.

Well. it could be worse.  And I hope it will be.  The end of the GOPe would be nice,

[Hoodat]

Well, not seeing a problem there,  If we unfund the gov we might actually be better off.

Might?  It is a 100% certainty.  Without exception, every single problem our nation faces today is government created.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

Well. it could be worse.  And I hope it will be.  The end of the GOPe would be nice,

And there it is.  Exactly where I thought you were coming from.

[Wingnut]

And there it is.  My point exactly.

So we have an agreement.  May the GOP as we know it die. 

[Maj. Bill Martin]

Well, not seeing a problem there,  If we unfund the gov we might actually be better off.

Except we all know that outside of some dreamy fantasies, that's not going to happen .  Right?

What will inevitably happen instead when it gets to that point - and this is what always happens -- is that the 5-10 most liberal members of the GOP won't be willing to shut down the government for the sake of funding a border wall, or for the sake of not funding something else, so they'll look to cut a deal with someone.

If the FC sticks to its guns and refuses to compromise on the conservative end, those RINO's will end up compromising with Democrats, which will end up being a far more expensive deal.

And the Dems absolutely see that coming right now.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

So we have an agreement.  May the GOP as we know it die.

Oh, the only agreement we have is we agree that you want things to get worse. 

We don't agree that the GOP will die.  All that will happen is that it'll be forced to make even more compromises with Democrats because the hardcore conservatives will have rendered themselves irrelevant.

[Wingnut]

Oh, the only agreement we have is we agree that you want things to get worse. 

We don't agree that the GOP will die.  All that will happen is that it'll be forced to make even more compromises with Democrats because the hardcore conservatives will have rendered themselves irrelevant.

Well then Screw you.  I want to burn the house down.  The place is a hive a villainy.  Piss on you for supporting a failed body.

[Hoodat]

Except we all know that outside of some dreamy fantasies, that's not going to happen .  Right?

Not if Kevin McCarthy becomes Speaker.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

Not if Kevin McCarthy becomes Speaker.

Oh.  So you think that if someone other than McCarthy becomes Speaker, that the 5-6 most liberal Republicans in the House would then be willing to permanently defund the government in the name of hardcore conservatism?

That seems unlikely to me.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

Well then Screw you.  I want to burn the house down.  The place is a hive a villainy.  Piss on you for supporting a failed body.

And you have a very Blessed Day too!

[Hoodat]

Oh.  So you think that if someone other than McCarthy becomes Speaker, that the 5-6 most liberal Republicans in the House would then be willing to permanently defund the government in the name of hardcore conservatism?

That seems unlikely to me.

There was nothing in my post that came close to even hinting that.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

There was nothing in my post that came close to even hinting that.

I honestly thought that was your point.  Look  back through the thread.  Wingnut said this:

Well, not seeing a problem there,  If we unfund the gov we might actually be better off.

I responded with:

Except we all know that outside of some dreamy fantasies, that's not going to happen .  Right?

And then you said:

Not if Kevin McCarthy becomes Speaker.

So I honestly believed your point was that if we elect somebody other than Kevin McCarthy is Speaker, we can shut the government down long-term.  If that wasn't your point, I apologize.

I'm just saying that we've gone through this exact same scenario at least a dozen times in the last few decades, with conservatives demanding we hold firm on defunding, and the most liberal members of the GOP being unwilling to do that and cutting a deal with the Dems.

The problem in particular in this Congress is that we won't come out of this with any real unity in the GOP, and a very small margin over the Dems in the House as a whole.   The entire Democratic strategy for the next two years is going to be 1) obstruct as much as possible, 2) fracture the GOP, and 3) peel off the 5-7 most liberal members on big issues.

And if the conservatives aren't willing to compromise to keep those 5-7 with us, that strategy will work every time.

[Mesaclone]

I honestly thought that was your point.  Look  back through the thread.  Wingnut said this:

I responded with:

And then you said:

So I honestly believed your point was that if we elect somebody other than Kevin McCarthy is Speaker, we can shut the government down long-term.  If that wasn't your point, I apologize.

I'm just saying that we've gone through this exact same scenario at least a dozen times in the last few decades, with conservatives demanding we hold firm on defunding, and the most liberal members of the GOP being unwilling to do that and cutting a deal with the Dems.

The problem in particular in this Congress is that we won't come out of this with any real unity in the GOP, and a very small margin over the Dems in the House as a whole.   The entire Democratic strategy for the next two years is going to be 1) obstruct as much as possible, 2) fracture the GOP, and 3) peel off the 5-7 most liberal members on big issues.

And if the conservatives aren't willing to compromise to keep those 5-7 with us, that strategy will work every time.

That clearly WAS his point....good job holding Hoodat accountable for his own words. Some of these guys are living in a fantasy world where they think..."if only Andy Biggs was Speaker" we could force through every Conservative policy we want". It don't work that way...we can only legislate as far as the FIVE most liberal GOP congressman let us. That's how thin majorities work, which should be obvious as we're watching a handful of morons hold the entire party hostage so they can get some publicity for themselves.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

Some of these guys are living in a fantasy world where they think..."if only Andy Biggs was Speaker" we could force through every Conservative policy we want". It don't work that way...we can only legislate as far as the FIVE most liberal GOP congressman let us.

Bingo.  It's an unpleasant reality, but reality nonetheless.  The 20 are destroying any sense of GOP unity and alienating the exact people we're going to need to hold when it comes down to actual legislation.  It's a classic "win the battle but lose the war" scenario that has developed.

[Mesaclone]

Bingo.  It's an unpleasant reality, but reality nonetheless.  The 20 are destroying any sense of GOP unity and alienating the exact people we're going to need to hold when it comes down to actual legislation.  It's a classic "win the battle but lose the war" scenario that has developed.

So convenient to ignore that little fact and pretend "if only the Speaker would just put forward more conservative legislation we could achieve conservative utopia". No, we can't. That requires BIG majorities...which we ain't got. These folks are either ignorant to how a Republic is designed, or simply burying their heads in the sand.

So let me help them here with one plain sentence: YOU CAN ONLY PASS LEGISLATION IF YOU HAVE 218 VOTES (60 IN THE SENATE UNLESS ITS A RECONCILIATION BILL).

How do these supposedly educated folks not know this...the ignorance or deliberate denial necessary to ignore this fact is almost immeasurable.

[DB]

"if only the Speaker would just put forward more conservative legislation we could achieve conservative utopia"

You are so full of crap. No one expects a "conservative utopia". They're just trying to stop the freefall the country is in. A freefall due to the very people you demand we support.

[Hoodat]

That clearly WAS his point....good job holding Hoodat accountable for his own words.

Again, show me where I said, "if someone other than McCarthy becomes Speaker, that the 5-6 most liberal Republicans in the House would then be willing to permanently defund the government".

[roamer_1]

You are so full of crap. No one expects a "conservative utopia". They're just trying to stop the freefall the country is in. A freefall due to the very people you demand we support.

That's right.

[Mesaclone]

You are so full of crap. No one expects a "conservative utopia". They're just trying to stop the freefall the country is in. A freefall due to the very people you demand we support.

Nothing they are doing does ANYTHING to stop the “freefall”…rather…by tarnishing all Republicans as incompetent and disorganized idiots, they are ensuring that the “freefall” accelerates. This made SOME sense if it was about putting some limitations on the Speaker to limit his ability to cut a deal on budget issues or on spending generally…but it’s not that any more. Now it’s simply a personal vendetta mixed with some self aggrandizement. Pointless and destructive for our 2024 hopes.

[catfish1957]

That's right.

10-4

And I plan to call out every one of them out every time McCarthy screws us.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

10-4

And I plan to call out every one of them out every time McCarthy screws us.

McCarthy isn't going to be the problem. The problem is going to be Jeffries and his 212 votes repeatedly trying to peel away 5-7 RINO's to essentially take over the chamber.  McCarthy isn't going to have the power to stop that because the FC just stripped it away.

[Mesaclone]

Again, show me where I said, "if someone other than McCarthy becomes Speaker, that the 5-6 most liberal Republicans in the House would then be willing to permanently defund the government".

Re-read the Major's summary of your postings...its all right there.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

Again, show me where I said, "if someone other than McCarthy becomes Speaker, that the 5-6 most liberal Republicans in the House would then be willing to permanently defund the government".

No, you didn't have to use those words because it was implicit in your point.  You very clearly implied that we could shut the government down if someone besides McCarthy was Speaker.  That would necessarily require that the 5-6 most liberal Republicans in the House would be willing to defund the government as well to stick with the legislative priorities of the FC.

And that isn't going to happen.

Now, as I said in a prior post, if you weren't talking about keeping the government shut down, then this wouldn't apply, and I apologized.  But in that case, I would then have no idea what point you were trying to make in the first place.

McCarthy isn't going to be your problem. Your problem is going to be that the most liberal members of the GOP caucus will not go to the mat for FC priorities.

[roamer_1]

McCarthy isn't going to be your problem.

Oh the hell he ain't...

Your problem is going to be that the most liberal members of the GOP caucus will not go to the mat for FC priorities.

LOL! McCarthy won't go to the mat either.
And no, the liberal wing - while it has always been the money, is relatively unpopulated. It is the globalist moderate wing that is the problem, and has been all along - A group to which McCarthy is enjoined.