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Author Topic: Kevin McCarthy’s fate on the line, House conservatives warn speaker’s election could take days  (Read 10502 times)

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Offline DefiantMassRINO

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Re: Kevin McCarthy’s fate on the line, House conservatives warn speaker’s election could take days
« Reply #100 on: January 04, 2023, 04:02:15 pm »
If McCarthy had what it takes to be Speaker, he would have had all the votes he needed before the first ballot.
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Online Hoodat

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Re: Kevin McCarthy’s fate on the line, House conservatives warn speaker’s election could take days
« Reply #101 on: January 04, 2023, 04:03:22 pm »
A minority pushing forward with no plan:

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Offline roamer_1

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Re: Kevin McCarthy’s fate on the line, House conservatives warn speaker’s election could take days
« Reply #102 on: January 04, 2023, 04:07:19 pm »
Quote from: Maj. Bill Martin on January 04, 2023, 04:01:36 pm
I find the first two to be unreasonable.  Don't know enough about the third.

BALANCED BUDGETS are unreasonable? REALLY?
They are spending more than we make... They're flatly printing money... and it's unreasonable to rein that in?

If that is so, there is no sense in being a Republican (which I learned long ago over other things).
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Offline roamer_1

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Re: Kevin McCarthy’s fate on the line, House conservatives warn speaker’s election could take days
« Reply #103 on: January 04, 2023, 04:09:15 pm »
So the very most BASIC fiscal conservatism is clean off the table, huh.  *****rollingeyes*****
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Offline catfish1957

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Re: Kevin McCarthy’s fate on the line, House conservatives warn speaker’s election could take days
« Reply #104 on: January 04, 2023, 04:15:22 pm »
Quote from: Maj. Bill Martin on January 04, 2023, 04:01:36 pm
I find the first two to be unreasonable.  Don't know enough about the third.

The first two really piss me off because they are the kind of performative crap we usually see from the left.   Exactly what is Gaetz trying to accomplish with those first two?  What actual, concrete results does he expect to happen if he gets his vote?

I'll tell you -- literally the only thing that accomplishes is letting him go back to his constituents and say "Hey, I got a vote on term limits and a balanced budget", so he can increase his popularity with those supporters.  His motive is as purely political and non-substantive as it gets.

Thanks for a carefully thought out response......  My take, howerver is much much different.

First Term limits-  It is no secret that the Republic has suffered from career politicans for for up 40 years line their pockets with graft, influence money, and entrenched entitlement.  100's of years ago, we had politicans who though there for their own benefit, at least had the nation's best interest at hand.  Now that is not the case.  I know it would take a constitional amendment to implement, but there has to be a first step some where.

Balanced Budget?  I don't know how old you are, but in my youth, there was at least somewhat of an expectation that our government operate at least close to within budgetary guidelines.  That mindset has been shot to hell.  SOMETHING has to be be done in this area, or we are going to be flying off a cliff into a morass of a 3rd world economy.  $30+T and growing debt is not sustainable.

You may see it as political.  I see it as at least being ideologicaly honest, and wanting to make this country better.  Do you think McCarthy is a conservative?  Do you think he will work more closely with conseratives than dims accross the aisle?  Do you think McCarthy will drain the swamp?  I'd like to know, and how putting him in the Speaker's chair accomplishes that.
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Offline catfish1957

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Re: Kevin McCarthy’s fate on the line, House conservatives warn speaker’s election could take days
« Reply #105 on: January 04, 2023, 04:18:51 pm »
Quote from: roamer_1 on January 04, 2023, 04:09:15 pm
So the very most BASIC fiscal conservatism is clean off the table, huh.  *****rollingeyes*****

Going Galt seems more relevant by the day.  Our own are even turning on us.
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Offline catfish1957

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Re: Kevin McCarthy’s fate on the line, House conservatives warn speaker’s election could take days
« Reply #106 on: January 04, 2023, 04:21:41 pm »
Quote from: DefiantMassRINO on January 04, 2023, 04:02:15 pm
If McCarthy had what it takes to be Speaker, he would have had all the votes he needed before the first ballot.

Got to remember the last time a 100 years ago, there was no mass communication.  Telegraph, telephone, and in person discussions and conferencing  crudely was all they had.  I can see numerous ballots, as the factions lumbered through the process then

2023? No excuse.
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Offline roamer_1

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Re: Kevin McCarthy’s fate on the line, House conservatives warn speaker’s election could take days
« Reply #107 on: January 04, 2023, 04:21:59 pm »
Quote from: catfish1957 on January 04, 2023, 04:18:51 pm
Going Galt seems more relevant by the day.  Our own are even turning on us.

I seen it coming long ago... But at least now it's out front. They ain't even a bit bashful about it.
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Online Hoodat

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Re: Kevin McCarthy’s fate on the line, House conservatives warn speaker’s election could take days
« Reply #108 on: January 04, 2023, 04:22:03 pm »
Quote from: roamer_1 on January 04, 2023, 04:09:15 pm
So the very most BASIC fiscal conservatism is clean off the table, huh.  *****rollingeyes*****

Words fail me.
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If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

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Offline cato potatoe

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Re: Kevin McCarthy’s fate on the line, House conservatives warn speaker’s election could take days
« Reply #109 on: January 04, 2023, 04:23:58 pm »
Quote from: Maj. Bill Martin on January 04, 2023, 03:55:15 pm
There's a certain faction of conservatives who believe there is no real difference between the GOP and Democrats, and so would really care if it is Jeffries or McCarthy. Obviously, they're perfectly entitled to believe that, but if they truly believe there isn't any difference, then they should just form their own party and see how far they can get.

Getting to the point where McCarthy should consider playing hardball, and force Gaetz and his allies to make a choice.

That's what I am afraid of.  If this is a negotiating tactic, then fine, but the freedom caucus does not have the votes to dictate the agenda.  If they are delusional, we have a problem.  A purely republican coalition of 218 must include members who will not support Jim Jordan.  Winning the presidency in 2024 is only going to happen with a tenuous majority of of neocons, paleocons, devout Christians, moderate women, conservative democrats, and independents who just like the candidate's personality more than Biden.
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Online Hoodat

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Re: Kevin McCarthy’s fate on the line, House conservatives warn speaker’s election could take days
« Reply #110 on: January 04, 2023, 04:26:21 pm »
Quote from: cato potatoe on January 04, 2023, 04:23:58 pm
A purely republican coalition of 218 must include members who will not support Jim Jordan.

But it cannot include members who do.
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If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Offline roamer_1

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Re: Kevin McCarthy’s fate on the line, House conservatives warn speaker’s election could take days
« Reply #111 on: January 04, 2023, 04:26:22 pm »
Quote from: cato potatoe on January 04, 2023, 04:23:58 pm
That's what I am afraid of.  If this is a negotiating tactic, then fine, but the freedom caucus does not have the votes to dictate the agenda.  If they are delusional, we have a problem.  A purely republican coalition of 218 must include members who will not support Jim Jordan.  Winning the presidency in 2024 is only going to happen with a tenuous majority of of neocons, paleocons, devout Christians, moderate women, conservative democrats, and independents who just like the candidate's personality more than Biden.

Oh I don't know... a Gang of Eight was enough to stifle every conservative move in the senate for a long, long time... Turn about is fair play, ain't it?
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Offline catfish1957

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Re: Kevin McCarthy’s fate on the line, House conservatives warn speaker’s election could take days
« Reply #112 on: January 04, 2023, 04:27:24 pm »
Quote from: cato potatoe on January 04, 2023, 04:23:58 pm
That's what I am afraid of.  If this is a negotiating tactic, then fine, but the freedom caucus does not have the votes to dictate the agenda.  If they are delusional, we have a problem.  A purely republican coalition of 218 must include members who will not support Jim Jordan.  Winning the presidency in 2024 is only going to happen with a tenuous majority of of neocons, paleocons, devout Christians, moderate women, conservative democrats, and independents who just like the candidate's personality more than Biden.

I wouldn't call their 3-4 minor concessions as "dictating the agenda"

This is all on McCarthy's arrogance, and preference to be dealing with dims. We get it.
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Online Hoodat

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Re: Kevin McCarthy’s fate on the line, House conservatives warn speaker’s election could take days
« Reply #113 on: January 04, 2023, 04:27:38 pm »
Quote from: roamer_1 on January 04, 2023, 04:26:22 pm
Oh I don't know... a Gang of Eight was enough to stifle every conservative move in the senate for a long, long time... Turn about is fair play, ain't it?

It was only a Gang of Four.  The other four were Democrats who still voted with the Democrats.
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If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Offline roamer_1

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Re: Kevin McCarthy’s fate on the line, House conservatives warn speaker’s election could take days
« Reply #114 on: January 04, 2023, 04:28:39 pm »
Quote from: Hoodat on January 04, 2023, 04:27:38 pm
It was only a Gang of Four.  The other four were Democrats who still voted with the Democrats.

Still they did some dictating alright.
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Online Hoodat

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Re: Kevin McCarthy’s fate on the line, House conservatives warn speaker’s election could take days
« Reply #115 on: January 04, 2023, 04:30:38 pm »
Quote from: roamer_1 on January 04, 2023, 04:28:39 pm
Still they did some dictating alright.

Yep.  And the GOP Leadership put up a heck of a lot less protest back then than they are putting up now.
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If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Offline Free Vulcan

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Re: Kevin McCarthy’s fate on the line, House conservatives warn speaker’s election could take days
« Reply #116 on: January 04, 2023, 04:35:58 pm »
Quote from: catfish1957 on January 04, 2023, 04:27:24 pm
I wouldn't call their 3-4 minor concessions as "dictating the agenda"

This is all on McCarthy's arrogance, and preference to be dealing with dims. We get it.

Yep. In reality there needs to be a rewrite of several of the adopted rules.

From McCarthy's viewpoint, 1 and 3 won't likely pass a court challenge, so no big loss to him. It's 2 that he won't agree to, despite the fact these big spending bills only go to the Rats woke projects and their campaign coffers. Cut them off and watch them wither.

Reality is he's down with the status quo.
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Online andy58-in-nh

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Re: Kevin McCarthy’s fate on the line, House conservatives warn speaker’s election could take days
« Reply #117 on: January 04, 2023, 04:57:27 pm »
I understand why conservatives in the House do not trust Kevin McCarthy, which really has more to do with the faithlessness of the GOP national leadership, than his own behavior.

But this behavior is not going to get them anywhere. It is useless, harmful to the chances of getting anything done, and it is helping the Democrats.

They need to stop the obstruction, accept McCarthy - flaws and all - and work toward accomplishing things that can be accomplished with a bare majority in the House and Democrats in control of both the Senate and the Presidency. 

Nothing good can come or will come from opposition to McCarthy now.

There are no other identifiable and electable choices for Speaker of the House among Republicans. That is reality, as much as it is disagreeable to conservatives.
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Offline Mesaclone

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Re: Kevin McCarthy’s fate on the line, House conservatives warn speaker’s election could take days
« Reply #118 on: January 04, 2023, 05:00:23 pm »
Quote from: catfish1957 on January 04, 2023, 02:19:13 pm
God, I sure hope I am never in a fox hole in battle with you.  You'll be the first hositing the white flag.

Just because you don't mind settling for a RINO dim capitulating POS, might mean the rest of us want better for our country.  Your plan helps perpetuate the Biden agenda.  Guess what?  Expect McConnell tactics even though we'll have the majority. 

Both McC's fold like cheap tents when confronted by political opponents in the other aisle....... Is that your intent?

Addtionally:

(1) Kinzinger and Cheney as Speaker?  Here's a little news flash...  They lost their bids for re-election for the House.  Their legislative careers are basically over.

(2) Quorum rules and understanding of backroom or floor in this case  of voting patterns and commitments make the chance of Jeffy becoming Speaker near nil.

So before throwing out implausible scenarios and calling us idiots, you might want to get a bright mirror first.

So full of crap...and BTW...having been in a foxhole while fighting for this country you can take the foxhole garbage and stuff it.

And...you wanna talk "plausible scenarios"!?!?! Are you kidding me. The tiny 19 person caucus HAS no scenario...they are just blocking everyone else in the caucus...its 200+ to 19. These idiots HAVE no plan...HAVE no candidate of their own...HAVE no rational course forward other than blocking the rest of the conservative Congressmen who WANT McCarthy. This isn't some choice being offerred...its a gimmick to get some publicity for a few guys...with zero alternate plan for a leader who can do what they supposedly want to happen.

Having Jim Jordan on judiciary is not "settling" for RINO's. And by the way, you can complain about RINO's all day...and yet this obstructionism is the biggest gift ever given to the RINO's and the Dems. You've made every conservative look like a dysfunctional idiot. Congrats.
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Offline Mesaclone

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Re: Kevin McCarthy’s fate on the line, House conservatives warn speaker’s election could take days
« Reply #119 on: January 04, 2023, 05:08:38 pm »
Quote from: catfish1957 on January 04, 2023, 02:22:09 pm
Wow, can I quote you that you are calling McCarthy a "Conservative"? Well...200+ of his fellow House members believe he is. Trump and Desantis think he is. So yes. Is he imperfect...yep. But were the Repubs to pick a truly hardline conservative, they'd lose the moderate RINO's...about a dozen votes...and the Speakership would go to Hakeem Jeffries. And compared to Jeffries...McCarthy is Ronald Reagan. Further, were that to happen, there'd be no investigations, no accountability, and nothing but liberal legislation making it to the floor. That's the garbage result your "guy's" actions are bringing to all of us. Not just dumb...irresponsible and embarrassing.

And if you don't mind me adding....
Gaetz had a presser yesterday, and simply stated that all McCarthy had to do, to get the votes for endorsement for speaker was:

1. Agree to term limits vote on the House Floor. Can't pass the Senate so meaningless gesture.
2. Bring up Balanced Budget provisons up from committe for review, and conferencing. Can't pass the Senate so meaningless gesture.
3. Bring up Border Protection Plan developed by the Texas Delegate for floor vote. Can't pass the Senate so meaningless gesture.

And for the record, McCarthy...and the entire caucus...and likely everyone on this board....support all 3 of those items already. Its idiocy to claim otherwise.

Please let me know exactly which of those 3 that you find unacceptable or unreasonable.....
« Last Edit: January 04, 2023, 05:10:11 pm by Mesaclone »
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Offline Mesaclone

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Re: Kevin McCarthy’s fate on the line, House conservatives warn speaker’s election could take days
« Reply #120 on: January 04, 2023, 05:13:32 pm »
Quote from: Maj. Bill Martin on January 04, 2023, 03:55:15 pm
There's a certain faction of conservatives who believe there is no real difference between the GOP and Democrats, and so would really care if it is Jeffries or McCarthy. Obviously, they're perfectly entitled to believe that, but if they truly believe there isn't any difference, then they should just form their own party and see how far they can get.

Getting to the point where McCarthy should consider playing hardball, and force Gaetz and his allies to make a choice.

This site is greatly in need of your insight and common sense. Hope you have much more input in the future. Great to see you posting!
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Offline DefiantMassRINO

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Re: Kevin McCarthy’s fate on the line, House conservatives warn speaker’s election could take days
« Reply #121 on: January 04, 2023, 05:14:02 pm »
I prefer Republicans who fight and lose over those who concede defeat without trying.

What whould The Alamo be if the Texans just surrendered to General Santa Ana?
« Last Edit: January 04, 2023, 05:20:27 pm by DefiantMassRINO »
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Re: Kevin McCarthy’s fate on the line, House conservatives warn speaker’s election could take days
« Reply #122 on: January 04, 2023, 05:14:47 pm »
Quote from: andy58-in-nh on January 04, 2023, 04:57:27 pm
I understand why conservatives in the House do not trust Kevin McCarthy, which really has more to do with the faithlessness of the GOP national leadership, than his own behavior.

But this behavior is not going to get them anywhere. It is useless, harmful to the chances of getting anything done, and it is helping the Democrats.

They need to stop the obstruction, accept McCarthy - flaws and all - and work toward accomplishing things that can be accomplished with a bare majority in the House and Democrats in control of both the Senate and the Presidency. 

Nothing good can come or will come from opposition to McCarthy now.

There are no other identifiable and electable choices for Speaker of the House among Republicans. That is reality, as much as it is disagreeable to conservatives.

While I'm very happy that what happened yesterday happened, enough is enough.  A strong message has been sent and it's time to elect a speaker and move on. If that doesn't happen today, I'll assure you that no one is going to like what comes next.
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Offline Mesaclone

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Re: Kevin McCarthy’s fate on the line, House conservatives warn speaker’s election could take days
« Reply #123 on: January 04, 2023, 05:15:14 pm »
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Offline catfish1957

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Re: Kevin McCarthy’s fate on the line, House conservatives warn speaker’s election could take days
« Reply #124 on: January 04, 2023, 05:26:30 pm »
Quote from: Mesaclone on January 04, 2023, 05:08:38 pm


Meaningless Gestures?   So when does anythng start?  Maybe a first step?

Sounds like a sound endorsement of the swamp.  Thanks for responding.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2023, 05:28:11 pm by catfish1957 »
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