Ukraine 2

[Right_in_Virginia]

They've been attacking Kiev itself the past few days....

Maybe you could take a crack at answering the questions raised here      @Cyber Liberty  ??

Make YOUR case for the US accelerating a proxy war with Russia over yet another border conflict in The Ukraine.  Tell me how the US benefits.

Include YOUR explanation for why neither the EU or NATO want the stench of The Ukraine and its world-class corruption in their organizations ---  and why Europe continues to engage Russia, in spite of the carnage, for their comfort, convenience and economic security.

And, please, explain why you don't give a damn about the added impact this sh*tshow is having on Americans.

[240B]

"My biggest concern is Brandon will only supply the Ukrainians with enough to fight to a stand still"

You are granting Biden a lot of 'magical power'. What about all of Europe? How is America responsible for a 'stand still'. Regardless of Slow Joe and America, if Europe wanted this war ended, they could end it today. America is not responsible and does not have 'magical powers' to make Ukraine win, or lose, or draw.

[Cyber Liberty]

Maybe you could take a crack at answering the questions raised here      @Cyber Liberty  ??

Nope.  Not playing that game.  I can't.

[Hoodat]

Maybe you could take a crack at answering the questions raised here      @Cyber Liberty  ??

Now there's a pot and kettle moment.

[Hoodat]

This is what the regime you support wthout question has done to the American people:

Lies make Jesus cry.  I do not support this regime in any regard whatsoever.  I have been highly critical throughout this thread on this regime's handling of Ukraine as you damn well know.  Maybe if you paid more attention to what is posted here instead of fantasizing about blowing Putin, maybe you would have a better understanding of my position.

[Right_in_Virginia]

Nope.  Not playing that game.  I can't.

It's not a game --- at least not for me @Cyber Liberty   I am trying to understand the unquestioned devotion to Biden's actions --- a man who has been wrong on every foreign policy issue for the past 50 years. 

I am open to being convinced our involvement is in the best military and economic interests of the United States  ----- that we should tread beyond where Europe, itself, is willing to go.

No one has even tried to make this case.   

[Elderberry]

Moldova says it fears a Russian invasion as more neighbors ring alarm over Ukraine war

https://www.businessinsider.com/moldova-fears-russia-attack-neighbors-up-defenses-after-ukraine-war-2022-7

•   Moldova's prime minister said her country is afraid Russia could invade it next.

•   She told CNN that the concern is a hypothetical one for now, but it was still a "risk."

•   Moldova, Ukraine's neighbor, is home to a breakaway region backed by Russian forces.

"This is a risk, it's a hypothetical scenario for now, but if the military actions move further into the southwestern part of Ukraine and toward Odesa, then of course, we are very worried."

She highlighted the risk of Russian troops in Transnistria, a Russia-backed region that borders Ukraine and broke away from Moldova in 1992.

A senior Russian commander said in April that Russia wanted to take all of southern Ukraine, which would give it a land connection to Transnistria. Russia has since retreated from much of Ukraine, and is focusing on taking the east.

More at link.

[bilo]

Moldova says it fears a Russian invasion as more neighbors ring alarm over Ukraine war

https://www.businessinsider.com/moldova-fears-russia-attack-neighbors-up-defenses-after-ukraine-war-2022-7

•   Moldova's prime minister said her country is afraid Russia could invade it next.

•   She told CNN that the concern is a hypothetical one for now, but it was still a "risk."

•   Moldova, Ukraine's neighbor, is home to a breakaway region backed by Russian forces.

"This is a risk, it's a hypothetical scenario for now, but if the military actions move further into the southwestern part of Ukraine and toward Odesa, then of course, we are very worried."

She highlighted the risk of Russian troops in Transnistria, a Russia-backed region that borders Ukraine and broke away from Moldova in 1992.

A senior Russian commander said in April that Russia wanted to take all of southern Ukraine, which would give it a land connection to Transnistria. Russia has since retreated from much of Ukraine, and is focusing on taking the east.

More at link.

The Moldovan PM has every reason to be concerned since Russia already has created a pretext for a "territorial dispute" on Moldova's eastern border.

[Elderberry]

Dozens of Ukrainian POWs killed in missile strike

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-bombs-russian-forces-drive-retake-south-2022-07-28/

Reuters By Max Hunder and Pavel Polityuk 7/29/2022

         Summary

•   Russia, Ukraine trade blame for prisoner deaths

•   UK says Russia deploys Wagner fighters more widely

•   Ukraine says grain ships loaded but no date yet to move

ODESA, Ukraine/KYIV, July 29 (Reuters) - Dozens of Ukrainian prisoners of war appeared to have been killed when a prison building was destroyed in a missile strike on Friday, with Moscow and Kyiv accusing each other of carrying out the attack.

The deaths, some of which were confirmed by Reuters journalists at the damaged prison where the men were held, overshadowed U.N.-backed efforts to restart shipping grain from Ukraine and ease a looming global hunger crisis.

Russia's defence ministry said 40 prisoners were killed and 75 wounded in the attack on the prison, in the frontline town of Olenivka, in a part of Donetsk province held by separatists.

It accused Kyiv of targeting it with U.S.-made HIMARS rockets, Russian news agencies reported.

Ukraine's armed forces denied carrying out the strike, saying Russian artillery had targeted the prison to hide the mistreatment of those held there and lay the blame on Ukraine. Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba said Russia had committed a war crime and called for international condemnation of the incident.

Reuters TV footage showed the remains of a cavernous burned-out building filled with metal beds, some with charred bodies still lying on them while other bodies were lined up on military stretchers or on the ground outside.

Shell fragments had been laid out on a blue metal bench, apparently so they could be photographed. It was not immediately possible to detect any identifying markings and it was not clear where the fragments had been collected from.

The Russian defence ministry said that the prison housed Ukrainian prisoners of war and that eight prison staff were also wounded. Russian-backed separatist leader Denis Pushilin was quoted saying there were no foreigners among the 193 detainees.

The Ukrainian government has accused Russia of atrocities and brutality against civilians during the invasion and said it has identified more than 10,000 possible war crimes.

Its armed forces general staff said the prison attack was an attempt to shift the blame.

More at link.

[Hoodat]

I am open to being convinced our involvement is in the best military and economic interests of the United States  ----- that we should tread beyond where Europe, itself, is willing to go.

No one has even tried to make this case.   

Pure unadulterated bullshit.  Several posters including myself have been making this exact case here for months now.  Let those who have ears hear.

[bilo]

Pure unadulterated bullshit.  Several posters including myself have been making this exact case here for months now. Let those who have ears hear.

 

The case was made on the first thread very early on.

[Kamaji]

‘Sickening’ video shows gagged Ukrainian POW being castrated

By Lee Brown
July 29, 2022

“Sickening evil” video footage shows a bound and gagged Ukrainian prisoner of war being castrated by Russian soldiers — before he is shot dead and dragged through the street on a rope.

The barbaric footage — confirmed Friday by a Ukrainian politician and journalist — shows camouflaged soldiers allegedly led by Vitaly Aroshanov kicking the distressed soldier in the head as he lies bound by ropes on the floor.

With his mouth gagged, the tortured prisoner moans in desperation as the troops rip his pants to expose his backside.

As he squirms and moans, they use a box cutter to hack away at his genitalia, eventually cutting it off and throwing it on the ground nearby.

“After the torture, he was shot dead and his body dragged through the streets on a rope,” the war news site Ukraine Watch said Friday of a second part of the video, which it refused to share “for ethical reasons.”

The torture first emerged Thursday on several Russian Telegram channels as a sick warning to Ukrainian mothers not to send their sons to war, the Kyiv Post said. The soldiers speak in Russian and stand near a car with the capital letter Z, the symbol used for the Kremlin’s troops.

*  *  *

Source:  https://nypost.com/2022/07/29/ukrainian-pow-castrated-by-russians-in-sickening-video/

[Elderberry]

Zelenskyy orders mandatory evacuation of Donetsk region as fighting intensifies

https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-war-zelenskyy-orders-mandatory-evacuation-of-donetsk-region-as-fighting-intensifies-12662533

Donetsk has seen fierce fighting in recent days, particularly in the eastern town of Bakhmut, which is the focus of the Russian offensive in the Donbas.

Ukraine's president has announced a mandatory evacuation of people in the Donetsk region, amid fierce fighting with Russia.

In his nightly address, Volodymyr Zelenskyy said hundreds of thousands of people still in combat zones in the larger Donbas region also needed to leave.

Mr Zelenskyy said the sooner people leave "the fewer people the Russian army will have time to kill".

He said: "Full support, full assistance - both logistical and payments. We only need a decision from the people themselves, who have not yet made it for themselves. Go, we will help".

More at link

[Elderberry]

Russia silent as Red Cross, UN demand access to prison where dozens of Ukrainian POWs killed

https://nypost.com/2022/07/30/russia-silent-as-un-red-cross-want-access-where-ukrainian-pows-killed/

The United Nations and the Red Cross demanded access Saturday to the prison where dozens of Ukrainian POWs were killed, but Russia has so far met their requests with silence.

The UN wants to investigate the attack in the town of Olenivka in Russian-occupied eastern Ukraine, which Moscow said killed 53 Ukrainian POWs and wounded another 75. 

Ukraine maintains that Thursday night’s deadly shelling was a “war crime,” while Russia claims Ukraine launched the missiles that destroyed the building. Both sides say the attack was premeditated and intended to silence the prisoners inside and destroy evidence of potential atrocities.

“We are ready to send a team of experts capable of conducting an investigation with the permission of the parties,” Farhan Haq, deputy spokesman of the UN Secretary-General, told Russian media. He said the probe would require consent from all sides, and added that the UN supports the Red Cross’ efforts to gain access to the site.

The prison housed nearly 200 troops captured in Mariupol, the scene of many of the war’s worst atrocities, including many who held out in the Azovstal steel plant outside the city during weeks of brutal fighting.

Late Saturday, Russia’s Defense Ministry issued a list naming 48 Ukrainian fighters who died in the attack, aged 20 to 62. It was not immediately clear if the list was intended to be complete, suggesting that fewer people had died than initially stated, or if some names were missing.

Russia has not yet said when and how the dead soldiers’ bodies might be retrieved, Ukraine’s Human Rights Ombudsman Dmytro Lubinets said.

More at link.

[Right_in_Virginia]

Pedro L. Gonzalez
@emeriticus

Orban says Hungary will stay out of war in Ukraine, labels claims that Russia wants world domination as Western propganda, says Russia tried to avoid this conflict with diplomacy but the West refused negotiate and made all this inevitable.

Hero.

Link to speech:  https://miniszterelnok.hu/speech-by-prime-minister-viktor-orban-at-the-31st-balvanyos-summer-free-university-and-student-camp/



7:07 PM · Jul 30, 2022  Twitter for Android

[Right_in_Virginia]

Michael Tracey
@mtracey

Key part of recent speech by Orban. When US officials profess that Ukraine must decide its own fate, its "agency" must be respected, etc. -- they're just deflecting. Because it's the US that is ultimately setting the course of the war, which it chooses to prolong rather than end



10:00 AM · Jul 30, 2022  Twitter Web App

[Hoodat]

Russia tried to avoid this conflict with diplomacy but the West refused negotiate and made all this inevitable.

In other news, Big Brother has increased the chocolate ration to 20 grams.

[Right_in_Virginia]

Michael Tracey
@mtracey

Here he refutes the incessantly-repeated talking point that Russia must be thoroughly defeated in Ukraine, otherwise Putin will march on and invade other countries. "Lacks any basis in reality," he says



10:10 AM · Jul 30, 2022  Twitter Web App

[Right_in_Virginia]

Michael Tracey
@mtracey

He essentially says that Poles, despite the current government ostensibly being ideologically aligned with Hungary, cannot be reasoned with on the war and so he's just given up for the time being



10:12 AM · Jul 30, 2022  Twitter Web App

[Right_in_Virginia]

Link to Orban's full speech:  https://miniszterelnok.hu/speech-by-prime-minister-viktor-orban-at-the-31st-balvanyos-summer-free-university-and-student-camp/

[Elderberry]

“The paths of Poland and Hungary have diverged,” says Polish PM

https://notesfrompoland.com/2022/07/30/the-paths-of-poland-and-hungary-have-diverged-says-polish-pm/

Russia’s war in Ukraine has caused the Polish and Hungarian governments, previously close allies, to take divergent paths, Poland’s prime minister, Mateusz Morawiecki, has declared in response to remarks by his Hungarian counterpart Viktor Orbán suggesting that the two sides actually “want exactly the same thing”.

Whereas Warsaw has been one of Kyiv’s strongest allies and advocates, providing large amounts of military and humanitarian aid and calling for tougher sanctions on Russia, Budapest has sought to maintain good relations with Moscow and has opposed some sanctions.

During a visit to Romania last week, Orbán admitted that the war had “shaken Polish-Hungarian cooperation, which was [previously] the axis of cooperation in the Visegrad Group”, a Central European alliance that also includes the Czech Republic and Slovakia.

Orbán’s Fidesz party and Morawiecki’s Law and Justice (PiS) have long been close allies, sharing both a similar national-conservative ideology and also supporting one another in their respective clashes with Brussels over issues including the rule of law and refugee relocation quotas.

However, the two parties have always held differing positions on Russia, which have been brought to the fore during the war in Ukraine. In April, PiS chairman Jarosław Kaczyński warned that his party “cannot continue to cooperate [with Fidesz] as we have so far if it continues like this”.

More at link.

[Ghost Bear]

Link to Orban's full speech:  https://miniszterelnok.hu/speech-by-prime-minister-viktor-orban-at-the-31st-balvanyos-summer-free-university-and-student-camp/

Now that Orban has shown himself to be a bootlicker for Putin, I have lost all respect for him.

[Hoodat]

Russia recruiting thousands of volunteers to fill gaps in army - reports

18h ago  |  06:00

Russia is currently recruiting thousands of volunteers to supplement its ranks that have been left depleted amid the war, CNN reports.

Analysts believe more than 30,000 volunteers may have signed up to assist in the war effort to help Kremlin forces seize control of eastern Ukraine's Donbas region.

Russia researcher at the Institute for the Study of War in Washington, Kateryna Stepanenko, said the process was being driven by the Kremlin and the qualifications required for joining varied from region to region.

She told CNN: "Some battalions will partake exclusively in combat support and combat support operations (such as logistics or signal battalions), while others will reinforce pre-existing military units or form combat battalions."  .   .

https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-news-live-putin-looting-steel-bound-for-uk-major-deal-to-relieve-food-crisis-to-be-signed-russian-forces-increasing-missile-use-12541713?postid=4227564#liveblog-body

[Kamaji]

Traumatised mothers of Russian soldiers say their sons who refuse to fight for Kremlin are being held in torture pits

By IAN BIRRELL AND KATE BAKLITSKAYA IN KYIV FOR THE MAIL ON SUNDAY
30 July 2022

Maksim Kochetkov is being held captive in a penal colony 6,000 miles from his home on an island near Japan – one of the rising number of Russian troops who are prisoners of a war they do not wish to fight.

The 20-year-old is being punished for defying Vladimir Putin’s order to attack Ukraine – like thousands more Russian soldiers, often recruited from outlying and poorer parts of Russia.

His plight underscores the claim by defence officials in the United States last week that there are ‘increased signs of discipline and morale problems in the Russian army’.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11065199/Traumatised-mothers-Russian-soldiers-say-sons-refuse-fight-held-torture-pits.html

[Kamaji]

Momentum may soon shift in Ukraine war, experts say

By Evan Simko-Bednarski
July 29, 2022

Embattled Ukraine may get the upper hand in its war with Russia in the coming weeks — with Russian advances flagging in the eastern Donbas region and a Ukrainian counteroffensive underway in the nation’s south, western analysts say.

“It does seem the Russians’ ability for forward movement is petering out,” Phillips O’Brien, a professor of strategic studies at the University of St. Andrews in Scotland, told the Washington Post Friday. “I don’t see them being able to advance much more in the Donbas.”

The assessment matches that of British spymaster Richard Moore, the MI6 chief who predicted last week that Russian forces were “about to run out of steam.”

“Our assessment is that the Russians will increasingly find it difficult to supply manpower [and] materiel over the next few weeks,” Moore said at the Aspen Security Forum in Colorado last Thursday.

Meanwhile, he said “[Ukrainian] morale is still high, and they’re starting to receive increasing amounts of good weaponry.”

*  *  *

Source:  https://nypost.com/2022/07/29/momentum-may-shift-in-ukraine-war-experts-say/?dicbo=v2-81fe0d812a022fef9e03097e119549d8