Author Topic: Ukraine 2  (Read 99904 times)

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Online Hoodat

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1100 on: June 07, 2022, 01:30:58 am »
Yes, Ukraine/Russia needs to stop, but AND we need to secure our own country!!!

The two premises are independent of each other.
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Online libertybele

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1101 on: June 07, 2022, 01:36:38 am »
The two premises are independent of each other.

Most important of the TWO, is securing our own borders!!  If we can spend billions on Ukraine/Russia war, we can spend billions on securing our own country!!!

 :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot:
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1102 on: June 07, 2022, 01:41:12 am »
I think this is a message from Putin to show how much contempt he has for Ukrainians.   

@Hoodat

Naw,it's just "stoopid Russian Macho Bush". Never met a Russian that didn't have an inferiority complex,for damn good historic reasons,and I have met more than a few. Oddly enough,this trait seems to pass through to at least two generations that are born in the west.

Yes,it IS "stoopid",but make no mistake about it,it is also extremely dangerous because these goobers just don't have enough common sense to know when to back off. All their lives they have been indoctrinated into "Defending Holy Mother Russia",and it is one of the very few things that was accepted by the authorities.

In Russia,and those who were born and who grow up in Russia,an inferiority comes at the moment of birth. I am going to play the 5 cent shrink here,and say it comes from every Russian but Royalty in all the history of Russia was born as a serf with no actual rights other than the right to die or be enslaved in a labor camp if they protest.

The typical westerner can't even begin to imagine the daily reality  the typical Russian (AND Chinese) citizen grew up to accept as "just another day at the office". When I say they had a "lack of freedom",I mean a TOTAL lack of individual freedoms. They were nothing but tools of the state,and they didn't know any better than to accept that.

Any that didn't,immediately became an "enemy of the state" and most would spend the rest of their short lives in labor camps or as test subjects for medical research.

And the important,and damn near impossible part of this for a westerner to understand was they took this for granted and didn't see it as a big deal. They were flat-out OWNED by their Soviet Masters,and since they had no choice,accepted it as normal.

Royalty saw them all as nothing more than useful tools,and the Russian leaders still see them this way.

ANY western leader would be horrified by all the losses the Russians have suffered if they were their troops,but with the Russian leadership seeing their troops as nothing more than pawns,all it does is make them want to double-down. After all,THEY,personally are not threatened and are not going to be threatened in any way,even if the peons get fed up and decide to revolt. They will just get on their private jets or private yachts,and tool off to someplace with the billions they will steal/have stolen from the treasury.

And we ALL know that there is no such thing as a human being being so vile that Billions of dollars won't buy or rent them all the friends they need.

Hell,I wouldn't doubt that Putin has enough money stashed away in foreign bank accounts that there are several small nations he could just buy and then have a safe place to live.

I was actually thinking/hoping that the insanity attached to the massive losses of Russian troops would have already had him and the Politburo declaring victory and retreating back to Russia,but I now think this fool plans on the fighting going on until the last Russian soldier dies,if that is what it takes.

After all,there is NOTHING more important to the typical Russian male than his personal pride. Hell,it was practically the only thing the Soviet Masters allowed them to "own".

AND....,once again,THIS FORM OF SLAVERY HAS BEEN TRUE FOR THE ENTIRE HISTORY OF THE RUSSIAN NATION.  It is/was literally the only way they knew to live.

I can only hope that foreign diplomats with trusted connections within the Politburo have been whispering 'Revolution" in their ears. These people no doubt have MASSIVE ego's,but if they weren't clever enough to have been obsessed with personal safety they would have never risen to the offices they now hold.

There has been plenty of whispers about Putin having bad health,and the time has come and passed for the movers and shakers in the Politburo to take him out of office,if for no other reason than to save themselves and their own positions,or POSSIBLY face another Russian Revolution.

After all,the typical Russian citizen of today is nowhere near as ignorant of world events and reality as their grandparents were,and it is the sons and fathers of these typical citizens that are doing all the fighting and dying,not the Politburo members or their relatives.

The worse part about this IMNSHO,is that they have been conditioned to be obedient to the system that even though they now KNOW they have been screwed for all of their history,it is hard to break the "obedient to authority" conditioning they have all grown up with.

One other thing I am growing more and more sure about every day is that if Russia isn't stopped NOW,and Putin removed from power,there WILL be another world war because getting away with this will only encourage them to go for more.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2022, 02:03:01 am by sneakypete »
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Offline bilo

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1103 on: June 07, 2022, 03:00:36 am »
In the same light .... the best way to end the aggressive invasion at our border IS to defeat them as well.  Just sayin'.

Yes, Ukraine/Ruissa needs to stop, but we need to secure our own country!!!

That is about the weakest response a poster could make. Find a different topic everyone agrees with and ignore the original discussion.

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Offline bilo

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1104 on: June 07, 2022, 03:02:49 am »
Most important of the TWO, is securing our own borders!!  If we can spend billions on Ukraine/Russia war, we can spend billions on securing our own country!!!

 :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot:

Another silly response, change the topic because the side you are trying to defend (appeasement) really is not defensible.
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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1105 on: June 07, 2022, 03:17:08 am »
I am personally calling my Congressman and urging him to print another $100 Billion Dollars for 'you know' ... Ukraine and stuff, sort of. Hey! Let's print $1000 Billion Dollars for Ukraine! I advocate moving the U.S. Federal Mint directly to Ukraine. And to just print as much money as they want. Hell man, let's just give them all our money. Ukraine is the most important thing happening in America today!!
You cannot "COEXIST" with people who want to kill you.
If they kill their own with no conscience, there is nothing to stop them from killing you.
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Online Smokin Joe

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1106 on: June 07, 2022, 07:31:53 am »
In the same light .... the best way to end the aggressive invasion at our border IS to defeat them as well.  Just sayin'.

Yes, Ukraine/Ruissa needs to stop, but we need to secure our own country!!!
If we had an administration that could walk and chew gum at the same time, we could do both.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1107 on: June 07, 2022, 11:18:52 am »
Let's stick to the subject of Ukraine.  Plenty of threads about the invasion we have at the southern border....
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Online Kamaji

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1108 on: June 07, 2022, 12:32:19 pm »
I think this is a message from Putin to show how much contempt he has for Ukrainians.  Putin has bombed civilian population centers in Ukraine for 102 consecutive days.  Today, Ukrainian women and children would have lost their lives to Russian artillery, bombs, rockets, and missiles regardless of what Biden did.  Killing civilians and destroying Ukrainian population centers are what Putin does.

Exactly.

Online Kamaji

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1109 on: June 07, 2022, 12:36:21 pm »
Good news; another Russian nazi shot dead:

Russian Wagner mercenary known as 'The Executioner' for butchering prisoners of war is shot dead by a Ukrainian sniper in latest blow to Putin's invasion

By Chris Pleasance for MailOnline
7 June 2022

A Russian mercenary who gained notoriety for butchering prisoners of war and civilians in the Donbas has been killed fighting in Ukraine.

Vladimir Andonov, 44, a fighter for the shadowy Wagner Group, was shot by a sniper near Kharkiv during a reconnaissance missions on June 5, Russian media says.

Andonov was known to Russians as 'Vakha' or 'the volunteer from Buryatia' after the region he was from, but to Ukrainians as 'the executioner' for massacres he helped carry out during Russia's first invasion of the country in 2014.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10891847/Ukraine-war-Russian-Wagner-mercenary-Vladimir-executioner-Andonov-killed-near-Kharkiv.html

Online Kamaji

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1110 on: June 07, 2022, 12:38:41 pm »
Putin loses his 50th colonel of Ukraine invasion after two generals were killed in one day - as Russian death toll 'passes 31,000'

By Will Stewart and Jack Newman For Mailonline
7 June 2022

Russia has lost its 50th colonel of the war in Ukraine in the latest hammer blow to the Kremlin, with the death toll now soaring past 31,000.

Artillery commander Lt Col Vladimir Nigmatullin, a 46-year-old father-of-three from Yekaterinburg, was killed on May 31, it has now been revealed.

Nigmatullin's death has been confirmed to his family, adding to the huge list of casualties of Russia's military leaders, with one colonel killed every two days.

It comes after Vladimir Putin lost two of his most senior commanders in a single day in a devastating bridge ambush in eastern Ukraine, a group of independent journalists claimed.

Nigmatullin's sister-in-law Marina Konyukhova said: 'Eternal memory, darling, dear, much-loved man, you passed away.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10892419/Putin-loses-50th-colonel-Ukraine-invasion-Russian-death-toll-passes-31-000.html

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1111 on: June 07, 2022, 05:32:23 pm »
If so, the best response is to send the missiles today!

The best way to end the barbaric aggression of the Russians is to defeat them.

The EU should do this, not us.

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1112 on: June 07, 2022, 05:38:19 pm »
That is about the weakest response a poster could make. Find a different topic everyone agrees with and ignore the original discussion.

No, it's not.  We need every dime we have to stop this invasion.  We can't afford  both, so it's time to choose.



Online Smokin Joe

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1113 on: June 07, 2022, 05:53:12 pm »
Good news; another Russian nazi shot dead:

Russian Wagner mercenary known as 'The Executioner' for butchering prisoners of war is shot dead by a Ukrainian sniper in latest blow to Putin's invasion

By Chris Pleasance for MailOnline
7 June 2022

A Russian mercenary who gained notoriety for butchering prisoners of war and civilians in the Donbas has been killed fighting in Ukraine.

Vladimir Andonov, 44, a fighter for the shadowy Wagner Group, was shot by a sniper near Kharkiv during a reconnaissance missions on June 5, Russian media says.

Andonov was known to Russians as 'Vakha' or 'the volunteer from Buryatia' after the region he was from, but to Ukrainians as 'the executioner' for massacres he helped carry out during Russia's first invasion of the country in 2014.

*  *  *

Source:  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10891847/Ukraine-war-Russian-Wagner-mercenary-Vladimir-executioner-Andonov-killed-near-Kharkiv.html
This sort of action is the Ukraine's best hope. Target any and all officers and noncoms to place the conscripts in disarray and to reduce morale. If someone shows any sign of knowing what they are doing, kill them.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Online Smokin Joe

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1114 on: June 07, 2022, 05:54:46 pm »
No, it's not.  We need every dime we have to stop this invasion.  We can't afford  both, so it's time to choose.


We can afford both.

Just stop paying for them to be shipped all over the US and slash the welfare benefits being used to lure them here. The savings would pay to complete and patrol the wall.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1115 on: June 07, 2022, 06:41:20 pm »
We can afford both.

Just stop paying for them to be shipped all over the US and slash the welfare benefits being used to lure them here. The savings would pay to complete and patrol the wall.

Nope.  Not enough.  Shoring up Ukraine is going to help destroy this country in more ways than one.

Online libertybele

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1116 on: June 07, 2022, 07:30:56 pm »
I am personally calling my Congressman and urging him to print another $100 Billion Dollars for 'you know' ... Ukraine and stuff, sort of. Hey! Let's print $1000 Billion Dollars for Ukraine! I advocate moving the U.S. Federal Mint directly to Ukraine. And to just print as much money as they want. Hell man, let's just give them all our money. Ukraine is the most important thing happening in America today!!

 888high58888
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Online libertybele

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1117 on: June 07, 2022, 07:32:45 pm »
 888high58888
No, it's not.  We need every dime we have to stop this invasion.  We can't afford  both, so it's time to choose.



Absolutely agree.  What do you think these little darlings are going to do to our country??  We'll be fighting in our backyards!!
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Online libertybele

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1118 on: June 07, 2022, 07:34:35 pm »
Another silly response, change the topic because the side you are trying to defend (appeasement) really is not defensible.

Obviously, you feel that the war between Ukraine and Russia is more important and our fight and the heck with securing our own country.  Got it.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2022, 07:41:01 pm by libertybele »
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Online libertybele

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1119 on: June 07, 2022, 07:42:13 pm »
Let's stick to the subject of Ukraine.  Plenty of threads about the invasion we have at the southern border....

 :patriot:  :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot:
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Online Smokin Joe

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1120 on: June 07, 2022, 07:49:26 pm »
Nope.  Not enough.  Shoring up Ukraine is going to help destroy this country in more ways than one.
How much are we (taxpayers) shelling out for thee incentivizing, admission, distribution, and support of the millions of illegals this administration is waving across the border?

One million illegals (already exceeded) times only $5,000.00 is five Billion dollars. That's enough to build the wall, and that's a lowball estimate of what we're shelling out just to get them in an apartment somewhere, not the ongoing cost to support them.  The more the border is closed, the higher the savings with which to close the rest, and then we can send their asses home.

But, as you well know, a government that can 'afford' to print trillions it does not have can afford to do whatever it wants, and closing the border doesn't make the current management's to-do list.

If it did, a go fund me would pay the contractors to build it, even if they picked up the help at Home Depot.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Online libertybele

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1121 on: June 07, 2022, 07:57:03 pm »
How much are we (taxpayers) shelling out for thee incentivizing, admission, distribution, and support of the millions of illegals this administration is waving across the border?

One million illegals (already exceeded) times only $5,000.00 is five Billion dollars. That's enough to build the wall, and that's a lowball estimate of what we're shelling out just to get them in an apartment somewhere, not the ongoing cost to support them.  The more the border is closed, the higher the savings with which to close the rest, and then we can send their asses home.

But, as you well know, a government that can 'afford' to print trillions it does not have can afford to do whatever it wants, and closing the border doesn't make the current management's to-do list.

If it did, a go fund me would pay the contractors to build it, even if they picked up the help at Home Depot.

@Smokin Joe you are correct; all the $$$ that is going to be spent caring for them once the are in our country will be unsustainable;  medical, housing, food, etc.

Combine that will the billions upon billions that we are giving to Ukraine, and it is a recipe for an absolute economic collapse.

The economic impact is one thing, the assault on our culture and our safety is going to be a whole other ballgame.
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Online Kamaji

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1122 on: June 07, 2022, 09:29:22 pm »
The drone that saved Kyiv was piloted by a 15-year-old boy

By Evan Simko-Bednarski
June 7, 2022

The column of Russian military vehicles that bore down on Kyiv in the early days of the war was brought to a smoldering halt because a 15-year-old boy was helping to aim Ukrainian artillery.

Ukrainian teenager Andrii Pokrasa flew his drone over the Russian forces, relaying photos and coordinates to artillery units, effectively saving the capital city in late February, Canadian outlet Global News reported.

“He’s a real hero, a hero of Ukraine,” Yurii Kasjanov, a commander with Ukraine’s unmanned recon unit, told the outlet. “He was the only one who was experienced with drones in that region.”

Pokrasa said he was approached by Ukraine’s civil defense when they were looking for the exact coordinates of the Russian column.

“They provided us information where approximately the Russian column could be. Our goal was to find the exact coordinates and provide the coordinates to the soldiers,” he said.

*  *  *

Source:  https://nypost.com/2022/06/07/the-drone-that-saved-kyiv-was-piloted-by-a-15-year-old-boy/

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1123 on: June 07, 2022, 10:53:53 pm »

Andonov was known to Russians as 'Vakha' or 'the volunteer from Buryatia' after the region he was from, but to Ukrainians as 'the executioner' for massacres he helped carry out during Russia's first invasion of the country in 2014.

@Kamaji

This is how the old Soviets and the Neo-Soviets have always waged war. All anyone who doesn't believe this has to do to get their eyes opened it to look at films of the Red Army entering Berlin.

"Rabid Animal Brutality" is pretty damn close to being THE perfect description.
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Online Smokin Joe

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Re: Ukraine 2
« Reply #1124 on: June 07, 2022, 11:48:24 pm »
@Smokin Joe you are correct; all the $$$ that is going to be spent caring for them once the are in our country will be unsustainable;  medical, housing, food, etc.

Combine that will the billions upon billions that we are giving to Ukraine, and it is a recipe for an absolute economic collapse.

The economic impact is one thing, the assault on our culture and our safety is going to be a whole other ballgame.
The seeds of our economic collapse have been sown in the absolute war on energy--energy crucial to producing, mining, manufacturing, processing and transporting everything but the lies on TV (and, actually, even those).

As those costs increase, the cost of all else will also, that increase enhanced by the inflationary pressure of trillions of dollars in money created for causes it will never go to, siphoned off to import and distribute illegal immigrants throughout the country, not starving children, but nearly all fit young men of military age. We are witnessing the greatest criminal enterprise in history in action, because all of it is stealing from us.

Not for one second does it matter where they say the funding is going, most of it will never get there--it will be skimmed off by the crooks and cronies of the current Administration here.

If our Southern Border is to be controlled, it will be because an overwhelming number of Americans will go there, and be ready to defend not only this country but their own backs against the likes of this regime, with whatever force is necessary. But I have little doubt that the Administration would call in air strikes and use armed drones with all the gadgets we have bought, not to defend the border against invasion, but to combat any ad hoc force of Americans who intended to do so.

It will be that ad hoc force, or a change in management that will stop that invasion, and nothing else.

Biden is one of the creators of this problem (with Obama), one from which we had hopes of a respite while Trump was in office, but renewed with greater vigor once Biden got in. No money sent to the border now will accomplish anything, and the current Executive Branch will see to that, even down to waging war on Americans defending our country. Just one more reason they want our guns.

In the meantime, there is the opportunity to aid the Ukrainians in the attrition of the Russian force structure, and taking advantage of that while the will is there to do so is unlikely to be a regrettable act, so long as we and NATO avoid direct involvement in combat with the Russians and we can keep our troops out of it, despite the ravings of the Puppet in Chief.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis