Author Topic: Trump Lost Because He Wore People Out  (Read 7686 times)

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Online Fishrrman

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Re: Trump Lost Because He Wore People Out
« Reply #75 on: July 01, 2021, 11:24:45 pm »
"Trump Lost Because He Wore People Out"

Nonsense.

If Mr. Trump can handle another go at it, I'm ready for another 10 rounds.

Online libertybele

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Re: Trump Lost Because He Wore People Out
« Reply #76 on: July 01, 2021, 11:26:57 pm »
"Trump Lost Because He Wore People Out"

Nonsense.

If Mr. Trump can handle another go at it, I'm ready for another 10 rounds.

I'm with ya.  As time goes on, my support for Trump continues to increase.
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Re: Trump Lost Because He Wore People Out
« Reply #77 on: July 01, 2021, 11:31:52 pm »
I'm with ya.  As time goes on, my support for Trump continues to increase.

Biden in office has that effect.

Offline skeeter

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Re: Trump Lost Because He Wore People Out
« Reply #78 on: July 01, 2021, 11:33:29 pm »

Yet he still lost..

Yet I like him even more now. Figure that one out.

Online roamer_1

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Re: Trump Lost Because He Wore People Out
« Reply #79 on: July 02, 2021, 03:10:31 am »
That's right.  I'm hoping for a good, clean report, either way.  However, nothing would wet my jeans more than seeing a dam burst.

Yep. That'd be great. I said all along that proving it is the hard part - And HereWeGo.

But, this is probably the hinge for me. If the AZ audit turns into another nothing-burger, I will lend no more credence to the issue. My give-a-damn is about all done. Getting to be sh*t-or-get-off-the-pot time. If this turns into more FUD-jacked vaporware, I am all done listening.

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Re: Trump Lost Because He Wore People Out
« Reply #80 on: July 02, 2021, 03:21:31 am »
Yep. That'd be great. I said all along that proving it is the hard part - And HereWeGo.

But, this is probably the hinge for me. If the AZ audit turns into another nothing-burger, I will lend no more credence to the issue. My give-a-damn is about all done. Getting to be sh*t-or-get-off-the-pot time. If this turns into more FUD-jacked vaporware, I am all done listening.

You, me and a lot of other people.  As I said, this is for all the marbles now.  The people in charge of this audit, both politicians and contractors are taking what they are doing very seriously, and are refusing to let any information out until the report's released.  I support this because the Rats will pounce on every leak and spin it.  By the time a report comes out in that situation the spin would drown out the facts.

I prefer they be surprised, and I'm willing to wait and be surprised at the same time.  Why forearm them by forewarning?
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Online roamer_1

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Re: Trump Lost Because He Wore People Out
« Reply #81 on: July 02, 2021, 03:54:04 am »
You, me and a lot of other people.  As I said, this is for all the marbles now.  The people in charge of this audit, both politicians and contractors are taking what they are doing very seriously, and are refusing to let any information out until the report's released.  I support this because the Rats will pounce on every leak and spin it.  By the time a report comes out in that situation the spin would drown out the facts.

I prefer they be surprised, and I'm willing to wait and be surprised at the same time.  Why forearm them by forewarning?


All for it. And  am a patient man. I would much prefer a report fresh from the printer, and not the endless innuendo and waggin tongues of gossipers.

It is what it is, and it will stand or fall. As much as many think otherwise of me, I DO hope it stands. On its own. with no need for props.

Offline Hoodat

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Re: Trump Lost Because He Wore People Out
« Reply #82 on: July 02, 2021, 04:28:36 am »
Playing devil's advocate here: Couldn't that be because many people were not voting FOR Joe, but were rather voting AGAINST Trump?

Not sure about "people".  But that is definitely the case when it comes to uncreased photocopied ballots devoid of signature validation.

In 2016, I didn't like Trump.  But there is no way that would have persuaded me to vote for Clinton.  People want a reason to vote 'for' a candidate.  They can take no action at all to vote 'against' one.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Trump Lost Because He Wore People Out
« Reply #83 on: July 02, 2021, 04:35:22 am »
While working on labs in colleges, universities and private research I had plenty of opportunity to either listen to or talk with with people that were Mechanical Engineers and Micro biologists and Doctors researching AIDS, Alzheimer's, Cancer and other diseases. My estimate may of course not be a true ratio but it was what I experienced in about 15 years. Aside from anecdotal I have personal experience of my son who after completing a BA and Masters in English evolved into a flaming liberal while my daughter who didn't take much college remained as she was brought up, Conservative. The same held true for my nephew who was as his parents, conservative until he was indoctrinated while earning his MS In Mechanical Engineering at Berkley, and the same for my Niece who came from a conservative Catholic family after studying for her MBA at Berkley. :shrug:
It might depend on where you are, too, Berkley isn't exactly known for its Conservative influences. Most of the Engineers I have worked with have worked outside a lab, in the field experience being common among them and while the Petroleum industry and mining aren't necessarily a valid and complete cross section, they were overwhelmingly Conservative politically. Aside from that, in the family, the one liberal graduated from Ohio State and is lost to the Liberal Cause. His sister, who has studied in the US and abroad, emphasis on archaeology, languages, and medieval documents (has handled and translated a bunch of those) with a bent for archaeology, is Conservative, as are her mom and dad, one with a double major in math and geography (Radford), and I, well you know, with just a year on the MS in Uranium Geochemistry, gravitated from Grad School (right after Three Mile Island) and took my BS in Geology from JMU to the oil patch. There are a couple of generations represented in that, but the older one received our Bachelors' Degrees in the late 70s/early 80s in what at the time were fairly conservative departments in fairly conservative schools. Unfortunately, like most Colleges and Universities, they have to some degree followed the funding, and in so doing, sacrificed some integrity in the pursuit of grant money.

But it is my belief, and I may be wrong, that the more a field's questions can be answered by a calculation, the more likely there is a tendency to be conservative.

That doesn't mean that measurement bias, error, and logical fallacies cannot be applied (look at "climate science" for an example), it just means that to turn out quality graduates, they have to be taught how to think, not what to think, and even to think outside the box at times to find the right answers to the right questions. In field where there is a 'right' answer (Chemistry, Physics, Mathematics) and in even fields where there may be more than one possible acceptable interpretation of data (Biology, Geology) and the quest for truth is ongoing, the likelihood of believing in universal truths, in mathematical laws, in physical constants, is greater than it is in fields where all is subject to nuanced interpretation.

No one can tell you that Quartz crystal in your hand is a Zircon, and you can prove it, chemically, mathematically (specific gravity, index of refraction, hardness, interfacial angles on the crystal, x-ray diffraction, powder camera lattice structure analysis, chemical analysis, etc.), unlike the latest social theory which is open to a plethora of interpretations depending on the bias of the interpreter.
 
Liberals don't believe in absolutes, everything is negotiable, with the exception of their belief that conservatives are wrong. If you are STEM, you believe in at least some absolutes, even if you are trying to find a way to overcome them, hence my belief that you'd be more likely to find Conservatives there.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Hoodat

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Re: Trump Lost Because He Wore People Out
« Reply #84 on: July 02, 2021, 04:41:40 am »
Couldn't that be because there were more people voting overall, due to mail-in voting being so much more widespread

Yes, that is a likely explanation.  And it is one that affirms that Trump's support increased over 2016, thus rendering the premise of the opening post false.


and that Trump's percentages actually did decrease?

Percentages of what?  Percentages of 2016 voters?  Or percentages of ballots not tied to a voter?  Again, consider the argument.  It insinuates that people who were supportive when Trump ran in 2016 got tired of him and voted for Biden in 2020.  In my own personal experience, I have yet to meet a single person like this.  Yet I have met dozens (myself included) who are among that 17% increase - who did not vote for Trump in 2016, but did vote for him in 2020.  If the premise was true, then there would be numerous narratives circulated about from former 2026 Trump supporters who switched over to Biden in 2020.  Yet by every account I have ever heard, those choosing to vote for Biden in 2020 never did support Trump in 2016.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Offline Sighlass

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Re: Trump Lost Because He Wore People Out
« Reply #85 on: July 02, 2021, 05:23:12 am »
Just sticking my nose in the foray.

I see some truth to this poll... I like to phrase it as "character matters".... When your favorability ratings rank with Hillary, you might want to work on them (not via tweets directed at pissing off everyone including your own party).

I also see some plausibility to more voters (that don't usually vote) via the mail in system (and higher probability of cheating on those said ballots). Couple that with a voter pool that was fired up to throw Trump on his butt (MSM and such reporting constantly negative on Trump).

Lastly I see every year, voters get more liberal, same as the Republican party. There is little offered other than campaign promises to conservative values... and most conservative values today throw out social conservative Christian platforms. America has become a more secular society that despises any mention of anything that resembles it's younger years. How many folks now days refuse to spank their kids? How many of those kids are now out in urban areas throwing rocks at police officers.

What I am seeing less and less of is a need for me to vote in future elections.... I am an outdated dinosaur in today's world. Even here a rare candidate that I actually support is openly mocked.

 
« Last Edit: July 02, 2021, 05:26:47 am by Sighlass »
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Online dfwgator

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Re: Trump Lost Because He Wore People Out
« Reply #86 on: July 02, 2021, 05:35:00 am »
Just sticking my nose in the foray.

I see some truth to this poll... I like to phrase it as "character matters".... When your favorability ratings rank with Hillary, you might want to work on them (not via tweets directed at pissing off everyone including your own party).

I also see some plausibility to more voters (that don't usually vote) via the mail in system (and higher probability of cheating on those said ballots). Couple that with a voter pool that was fired up to throw Trump on his butt (MSM and such reporting constantly negative on Trump).

Lastly I see every year, voters get more liberal, same as the Republican party. There is little offered other than campaign promises to conservative values... and most conservative values today throw out social conservative Christian platforms. America has become a more secular society that despises any mention of anything that resembles it's younger years. How many folks now days refuse to spank their kids? How many of those kids are now out in urban areas throwing rocks at police officers.

What I am seeing less and less of is a need for me to vote in future elections.... I am an outdated dinosaur in today's world. Even here a rare candidate that I actually support is openly mocked.

It didn't matter what Trump did, the media was going to make him look like a monster.

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Re: Trump Lost Because He Wore People Out
« Reply #87 on: July 02, 2021, 05:38:33 am »
Liberals don't believe in absolutes, everything is negotiable, with the exception of their belief that conservatives are wrong. If you are STEM, you believe in at least some absolutes, even if you are trying to find a way to overcome them, hence my belief that you'd be more likely to find Conservatives there.

I worked for over 25 years in a Research and Development lab at a large Semiconductor company.  Almost all of my coworkers were PhD level Scientists.  I still communicate with one of them since I retired in 2018.

The other day she told me they were having a sort of celebration dinner party.  She said they can do this now because they all got shots.  She was surprised when I told her I would not have been invited to that, because I'm a refusenik.  She was astounded that an intelligent person such as I didn't get one.

I had to explain risk/benefit analysis to her, but I don't think she got it...bottom line, a room full of high-level STEM people celebrated because they swallowed the hook so far down that they must have crapped them without injury.

Never, ever talked to any of them about politics and Trump especially, but they are terrified of the plague so I assume voted for Grandpa Badfinger.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Trump Lost Because He Wore People Out
« Reply #88 on: July 02, 2021, 09:09:59 am »
I worked for over 25 years in a Research and Development lab at a large Semiconductor company.  Almost all of my coworkers were PhD level Scientists.  I still communicate with one of them since I retired in 2018.

The other day she told me they were having a sort of celebration dinner party.  She said they can do this now because they all got shots.  She was surprised when I told her I would not have been invited to that, because I'm a refusenik.  She was astounded that an intelligent person such as I didn't get one.

I had to explain risk/benefit analysis to her, but I don't think she got it...bottom line, a room full of high-level STEM people celebrated because they swallowed the hook so far down that they must have crapped them without injury.

Never, ever talked to any of them about politics and Trump especially, but they are terrified of the plague so I assume voted for Grandpa Badfinger.
Perhaps that's the difference. The people I worked with (and still do) all were, with rare exception at the BS/MS level, and only a rare few PhDs. Perhaps there is a difference, in that those of us who don't have PhDs know we don't know everything, even about a tiny bit...With a good BS you know a little about everything, with a MS, you know more, but about less, and with a PhD, you are so specialized you know everything about next to nothing, (at least that's the way my professors joked about it.) One of the problems I have observed with PhDs is that they hesitate to step far outside the limits of their area of concentration, unless following a line of development.

Many scientists suffer from that, while others are quite willing to apply the principles they learned in Chemistry, Physics, and Biology outside their field and see, at least, if what they are being told make sense. It isn't hard, once you understand the principles involved, to see if a study confirming or damning something like HCQ/Zithromax/Zinc is valid, especially when the studies use only one or two parts of the treatment, at the wrong stage of the disease, leaving out the critical component, and on patients who are already severely compromised by comorbidities and the late stage COVID-19 they have.

Its like studying cars and saying they will never get you anywhere, but in the fine print, you find that all the cars in the study lacked wheels. You don't have to be an ace mechanic to figure that out. Yes, it's that easy. Similarly, people who won't go that far, are unlikely to question PhDs in other fields, unlikely to research that information they are provided to verify it, and just take it at face value, with the thought that the expertise of other PhDs must be taken at face value, simply because they, too, have PhDs.  It's an expert thing.

But the biggest flaw in all of this guessing why Trump lost, is that it assumes that the numbers are valid and he actually did, fair and square, on the level, lose.
Like assuming all the votes were real, tied to a (living, legitimate) voter, were accurately and completely counted, or that the actions of those at the polls were never conducted with bias.

I'm just not seeing that, and no one who watched the wacky antics of Democrats in certain venues on election night did either. Just too many examples out there of very questionable ballots, double counts, and tampering with adjudication and even tabulation not to mention discarded ballots, chasing off poll watchers, burst water mains that weren't, and trucks unloading more boxes of ballots in the middle of the night.

If the data is trashed by the significant presence (more than the 'win' margin) of bad data, then GIGO applies.
Explaining why the results exist when the data is flawed is folly.

Those are not the results, and one is only explaining something which did not and does not exist.
No explanation needed.

All over America, though, I don't think those displaced by COVID from the workforce were looking to Biden for salvation, but rather to Trump to rebuild the economy that flourished under his first three years, and to keep the hard line going on Iran, Illegal immigration, and China. Even Latinos (Hispanics) were voting more heavily for Trump, many approving of his actions at the Border, despite the distortions in the Press. Between that and the increase in Black conservative votes, I'm not seeing where Biden could get legitimate traction, and even hatred can't muster, imho, enough legitimate votes to beat that sort of popularity, despite the constant fanning of that flame by the Media.

I'm hoping the AZ audit will show whether the phenomena people are trying to explain is reality or the result of a flawed data set, at least in AZ, and if the latter, whether that phenomenon (an uninspiring, lackluster, field-trailing candidate of questionable mental competence and even more questionable morality, who had done diddley squat during nearly a half-century in politics, who had demonstrated a nasty side if ever questioned on anything but softball issues, and his even less liked hyena cackling running mate who only brought to the table being a woman of color as any real qualification, suddenly became the nominees and won an election (despite the most napworthy campaign in history) against an energizing, dynamic, incumbent who packed venues despite COVID and got a record number of votes for a Presidential incumbent) is an artifact of pure chicanery.
 
I suppose it is possible that a significantly larger subset of work-at-home or merely unemployed Americans on lockdown were exposed to enough of the MSM's tireless 24/7 Hate Week that they finally got ordinary folks to love Big Brother and vote for Biden, but that (for some reason) didn't seem to hurt Trump any, considering he got more votes in 2020 than in 2016, all media pimped hatred aside.
« Last Edit: July 02, 2021, 09:14:09 am by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Trump Lost Because He Wore People Out
« Reply #89 on: July 02, 2021, 04:37:02 pm »
Donald Trump did not lose the 2020 election.  Period.

Again, I give you an example in one state --- Pennsylvania.  The state where 60,000 citizens turned out for one rally on Oct 31 at the Pittsburg-Butler Airport:






Late into the night on Nov. 3, Donald Trump was ahead in the tally by 650,000 + votes when Pennsylvania stopped counting.  When they returned a few hours later, Joe Biden was ahead.

Here's how:

                                         



The fraud was duplicated in democrat stronghold cities in four other states.  The Socialist-Democrats stole the election.  This happened.  Whether you agree or disagree is irrelevant. 


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Re: Trump Lost Because He Wore People Out
« Reply #90 on: July 02, 2021, 04:45:39 pm »

Offline Hoodat

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Re: Trump Lost Because He Wore People Out
« Reply #91 on: July 02, 2021, 05:38:04 pm »
Never, ever talked to any of them about politics and Trump especially, but they are terrified of the plague so I assume voted for Grandpa Badfinger.

It amazes me how people who are so terrified of death will so easily drink this kool-aid, yet are at the same time so stubbornly unwilling to accept eternity through Christ.

I've had this conversation with my liberal neighbor who confided her fear of the unknown after death.  My response to her was that she sure wasn't acting like it.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

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Offline Hoodat

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Re: Trump Lost Because He Wore People Out
« Reply #92 on: July 02, 2021, 05:41:12 pm »
Donald Trump did not lose the 2020 election.  Period.

Again, I give you an example in one state --- Pennsylvania.  The state where 60,000 citizens turned out for one rally on Oct 31 at the Pittsburg-Butler Airport:




@Right_in_Virginia

In fairness, Biden held huge rallies, too.  Here is one of his big Georgia rallies:

If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Offline Hoodat

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Re: Trump Lost Because He Wore People Out
« Reply #93 on: July 02, 2021, 05:52:29 pm »
But the biggest flaw in all of this guessing why Trump lost, is that it assumes that the numbers are valid and he actually did, fair and square, on the level, lose.
Like assuming all the votes were real, tied to a (living, legitimate) voter, were accurately and completely counted, or that the actions of those at the polls were never conducted with bias.

I'm just not seeing that, and no one who watched the wacky antics of Democrats in certain venues on election night did either. Just too many examples out there of very questionable ballots, double counts, and tampering with adjudication and even tabulation not to mention discarded ballots, chasing off poll watchers, burst water mains that weren't, and trucks unloading more boxes of ballots in the middle of the night.

Here in Georgia, I can say with 100% certainty that if election laws were followed, not only would Trump have won the State handily, but the Senate would be under GOP control.  It took five days after the election for Fulton/Dekalb/Cobb/Gwinnett counties to generate enough Biden votes to tip the balance to the Dems.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Trump Lost Because He Wore People Out
« Reply #94 on: July 02, 2021, 06:13:25 pm »

@Right_in_Virginia

In fairness, Biden held huge rallies, too.  Here is one of his big Georgia rallies:


You aren't fooling me. One of his circles is empty...
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

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Re: Trump Lost Because He Wore People Out
« Reply #95 on: July 02, 2021, 07:01:18 pm »
You aren't fooling me. One of his circles is empty...

Anyone wanna play Original Lawn Jarts?
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Online libertybele

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Re: Trump Lost Because He Wore People Out
« Reply #96 on: July 02, 2021, 07:05:41 pm »
Anyone wanna play Original Lawn Jarts?

  :silly:
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Trump Lost Because He Wore People Out
« Reply #97 on: July 02, 2021, 07:20:21 pm »
Anyone wanna play Original Lawn Jarts?
I'm in!
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

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Re: Trump Lost Because He Wore People Out
« Reply #98 on: July 03, 2021, 05:40:00 pm »
Here in Georgia, I can say with 100% certainty that if election laws were followed, not only would Trump have won the State handily, but the Senate would be under GOP control.  It took five days after the election for Fulton/Dekalb/Cobb/Gwinnett counties to generate enough Biden votes to tip the balance to the Dems.


Offline goatprairie

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Re: Trump Lost Because He Wore People Out
« Reply #99 on: July 03, 2021, 11:38:52 pm »
This probably explains why, despite the fact that the rest of his party is polling poorly on many issues,  Biden himself has a fairly high job approval rating.

The Republicans need to find a way to hang onto those voters that Trump brought in while reclaiming the suburbs. People forget that in 2020, Republicans did  well in down ticket races  while losing the White House

Some may not like to hear this, but run Donald Trump in 2024 and Biden wins reelection
Yes, the issues are not the only thing the public votes by. Hardcore Trumpsters just cannot understand that. They think because they loved Trump's antics, everybody but hard left types did too.
Not true. I would bet Trump set a record for people voting against a candidate just to shut him up.
I'll bet that included many voters who probably agreed with Trump on many issues but just couldn't stand him any longer. He did wear people out.
And YES!!!! I voted for him both times.