GOP dilemma — how to keep Trumpers yet regain anti-Trumpers

[sneakypete]

You either live within your means, or you spend lavishly and push the bill onto your children, grandchildren, and so on.  One of these options is Conservative.  The other is not.  Ask yourself which one you choose to support.  No excuses.

@Hoodat

In some respects,I consider myself to be one of the luckiest creatures in the world. This is especially true when it comes to the point of putting it above everything else.

I truly want what is within my budget,I buy it and don't worry about it. If it is something absurdly above my means,like a Porsche 911 Turbo,I just shrug it off and say "Oh,well." Nice to have,but not necessary.

This is not due to some sort of clever planning on my part. I owe it all to a old Master Sgt I was talking to one night while we were both on Charge of Quarters duty at Bragg. I was maybe 18,and whining about having a new car in the parking lot,and only getting to drive it maybe one weekend a month because all the other weekends I was on a training mission of some sort.

So that wise old vet told me something  which has stuck with me the rest of my life. He said "There are many things that are NICE to have,but that doesn't mean they are NECESSARY. What you need to keep in mind is that you can separate what is nice to have from what is important to have by asking yourself "Can I ride it,eat it,wear it,or bleep it?" If the answer to any of those questions is "No",it's just not that important. It might be NICE to have,but it's not necessary."

It was like a lightening bolt came out of the clear,blue sky.  I think I owe most of the happiness I have enjoyed since then thanks to the wisdom of that old E-8,whose name I can't even remember.

You can RENT happiness,but you can't buy it at any price. That brief conversation had an immediate and life-long impact on my life.

 Because of that discussion,I just naturally don't really give a damn about possessing something not absolutely necessary. LOTS of stuff I would like to have besides a 25 year old "Elvira,Mistress of the Dark". Well,that one is sorta "special",if you know what I mean. That is a category where if I could buy it,I wouldn't want it.

Wanted a Harley when I was maybe 20 ,but couldn't afford to buy one. So I started asking around,and found out about a guy that used to ride them back in the 40's and early 50's that still had boxes of parts stored in his barn. Went to see him and bought a 40 Knucklehead engine with a title,and almost enough parts to build two engines. I also bought a transmission and a frame from him. Found and bought a 47 springer front suspension,and extended it 15 inches and raked the frame neck 3/4 of an inch. Damn thing would track like it was on rails at speed. Bought it all for scrap money prices. Had a friend with a commercial garage,and he let me use his torch and tanks so I could teach myself how to weld.

Didn't know diddly-squat about rebuilding a Harley engine,but I figured I could buy a manual and learn. Sold my Triumph Bonneville for cash money,and started looking around. In less than a year I was riding my very first chopper,having a ball,and I probably only had enough money in it for a down payment on a new one. I probably spent more money on tools than I did parts. This was around 1970,and nobody around here had even seen anything like that,never mind owned one like it. I literally owned the ONLY motorcycle in the county I lived in.

And I can guarantee you that if I had been a Vanderbilt and paid 17 million dollars for it,I wouldn't have enjoyed it nearly as much.

Did the same with cars and trucks. When I needed one,I started looking around for cars and trucks parked in people's back yards. Even got one car for free. A rusty 59 Olds. They gave it to me to get it out of their yard. It would start right up and run smooth,but you could literally put the transmission in "Drive",and smoke a cigarette before it would slowly start to move. No problem. I knew a trick on that one. Hitchhiked to a parts store and bought a couple of big cans of brake fluid,hitchhiked back to their house,poured the brake fluid into the transmission,and drove away. The look on the faces of the people who had given it to me was priceless.

Damn thing would even chirp the rear tire when it shifted to second. IIRC, I drove that car for two years before parking it in my father's back yard and buying something nicer.

And never once felt the least bit "put upon" because I was driving a old rust-bucket 4dr sedan. I even used sheet metal screws and a piece of tin to "patch" a rust hole in the roof over the driver's seat. The truth is I felt both lucky AND fortunate to get a car for free that I could drive for 2 years. I knew about the brake fluid in the transmission trick because I had owned a 56 Olds on Okinawa that started having the same problem,and a friend tipped me off about the brake fluid trick.

Never once in my life have I been jealous over someone/everyone seeming to have nicer or newer "stuff" than I had. I take no credit for this. I just happened to have been born to not really care much about "stuff". If someone,everyone, seemed to have nicer "stuff" than me,my honest reaction was "good for them!"

I am guessing this attitude saved me from suffering from a LOT of grief as a younger man. I know for a fact it caused a couple of women to tell me they were leaving me "because I can do better." My reaction to that was "Wow! I really dodged a bullet THERE!"

If you were to take a deep and honest look at your own life,regardless of who you are,I honestly think you would realize that it is NOT the money or possessions you have that is important,it is the people you know who call you "friend".

[DB]

Do you understand that the federal government spent about $50,000 for every man woman and child in the US BEYOND what it took in over just Trump's presidency?

That is not trivial or without profound consequences. It is an epic failure by our leaders.

It insures that future generations will not live as well as we have.

It is simply insane and the death throes of dying Republic.

[roamer_1]

For the record, I do not think you anything other than a true conservative and an honest man. It is only your method that I reproach, never your integrity nor your positions on policy. That may not be worth much to you, but there it is.

Ditto the other way around. Although I would not call it method. More a matter of quality, and what you're willing to settle for. And I don't even mean that much poorly. What is an offense is the expectation of fealty, and that to a man, rather than a cause. That if only I would discard my principles and follow like I ought, everything would be fine. That part is bullshit. I would not expect you to bow to anyone or anything.

[roamer_1]

You either live within your means, or you spend lavishly and push the bill onto your children, grandchildren, and so on.  One of these options is Conservative.  The other is not.  Ask yourself which one you choose to support.  No excuses.

That is just plain right. 

[roamer_1]

Your choice in 2024 will be Trump or Harris.

Or neither, or other.

[roamer_1]

In some respects,I consider myself to be one of the luckiest creatures in the world. This is especially true when it comes to the point of putting it above everything else.

I truly want what is within my budget,I buy it and don't worry about it. If it is something absurdly above my means,like a Porsche 911 Turbo,I just shrug it off and say "Oh,well." Nice to have,but not necessary.

BUMP THAT @sneakypete

Ain't nothing so complicated. Just living in your means and having your priorities right. I may come by it more honest than you even - There just ain't much in modernity that I desire. A nice tractor, a lifted truck, maybe a jeep and a few electronic toys... But most of it don't even catch my eye.

The things I want are not found there. Simple enough. And most of what I want I can do for myself. The main thing there is to be left alone to pursue those things.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtkTtZpsCCY

[roamer_1]

Do you understand that the federal government spent about $50,000 for every man woman and child in the US BEYOND what it took in over just Trump's presidency?

That is not trivial or without profound consequences. It is an epic failure by our leaders.

It insures that future generations will not live as well as we have.

It is simply insane and the death throes of dying Republic.

LET THAT SINK IN. Then add in BOOSH and Obummer, and realize just how desperate that is.

[skeeter]

What did Trump do to protect the constitution and stop the lock downs?

What significant spending bill did Trump veto to block even some of the wild spending in congress?

And if Trump was or is the answer in the future and he was not able to do anything about these things then why is he the answer at all?

It is well past time to move on regarding Trump.

I wish you would.

[Bigun]

I owe it all to a old Master Sgt I was talking to one night while we were both on Charge of Quarters duty at Bragg.

Could it have possibly been a tall lanky black guy named Chandler?  @sneakypete

[Mesaclone]

Or neither, or other.

Nope. A neither or other IS a vote for Harris and permanent Socialism. Vote as you will, of course, but know that if nothing else.

[roamer_1]

Nope. A neither or other IS a vote for Harris and permanent Socialism. Vote as you will, of course, but know that if nothing else.

That is certifiably false, and goes back to that fealty thing - Equally false.

[DB]

I wish you would.

I can't as long as people demand he's the answer in 2024. More of the same won't fix anything.

[roamer_1]

Nope. A neither or other IS a vote for Harris and permanent Socialism. Vote as you will, of course, but know that if nothing else.

In fact, the fetid state of your party is precisely due to that thinking. You will vote for them, no matter what, no matter what they do, in the vain excuse that they are better than Democrats.

And that state precluded your hero from his herculean acts.

There ya go.

[roamer_1]

I can't as long as people demand he's the answer in 2024. More of the same won't fix anything.

... and yet another four years right down the drain...

[Mesaclone]

In fact, the fetid state of your party is precisely due to that thinking. You will vote for them, no matter what, no matter what they do, in the vain excuse that they are better than Democrats.

And that state precluded your hero from his herculean acts.

There ya go.

Here’s where you go wrong. If this was America 1999 you’d have a point. But that’s not where we are. The proper analogy is Weimar Germany 1928....with the various conservative and centrist parties bickering with each other over how many angels sit astride the point of a needle....whilst the Socialists assume total power ((“National” Socialists in that particular case...Dem Socialists in our current dilemma) through manipulations of the ballot box and demagoguery.

You are focused on getting people to vote for more staunchly conservative candidates...a noble sentiment...by refusing to vote for those you deem insufficiently conservative...a common refrain of German conservative parties in 1928. Meanwhile, the Republic is being stolen away thanks to the internal bickering and disunity of the Right.

Put simply, the country doesn’t have time for your bullshit. There is one man who’s shown the will AND the capability to fight back...even those you claim you could support like Cruz, Paul and Cotton understand this...you either fight with the flawed leader we have or you let the Commies end this Republic.

That’s the only REAL choices left to any American. I wish it were otherwise but believing that would be a dangerous self delusion. This is the fight to save the Republic...opting out IS your right, but, it IS a decision to give the country over to the Left in perpetuity.

[roamer_1]

Put simply, the country doesn’t have time for your bullshit. There is one man who’s shown the will AND the capability to fight back...even those you claim you could support like Cruz, Paul and Cotton understand this...you either fight with the flawed leader we have or you let the Commies end this Republic.

That’s the only REAL choices left to any American. I wish it were otherwise but believing that would be a dangerous self delusion. This is the fight to save the Republic...opting it IS a decision to give the country over to the Left in perpetuity.

Then you will continue to vote FOR massive spending, driving us further down the hole... and settling for a paper tiger, built on EOs that changes nothing in the long term... Because somehow expediency trumps merit.

When in fact, nothing trumps merit. Ever. And y'all will be your own undoing. Just desserts. And you wonder why I will not go along. 

This is why. Feckless.

Liberalism wins because it has no opposition.

[sneakypete]

Could it have possibly been a tall lanky black guy named Chandler?  @sneakypete

@Bigun

No,it was a big white guy almost as wide as he was tall,and in the  3rd SFG. I THINK he was a Korean War vet as well as a VN vet. Not to mention various other deployments all over the world.

I don't remember knowing anyone named Chandler,but that doesn't mean as much these days as it used to mean.

For those of you who were never fortunate enough to have friendly casual friendships with the old SF NCO's of the early 60's,some of whom climbed the cliffs or jumped into Normandy on D-Day,you really missed out. As a group,they were the smartest AND the most practical people I have ever met in my entire life.

I SUPPOSE there MIGHT have been some senior NCO's in the conventional army that had some wisdom,but if there was,I sure as hell never met them.

Did meet more than a few SFC/E-7's who volunteered for SF out of conventional Airborne units that went to SF because it was a lot easier to make E-8 there than in the regular army,but I never met one of these yahoos who lasted more than 6 months before putting in for a transfer back to the regular army. The typical complaint was in the nature of "Who do these people think I am that they can send me on post details like cutting grass?".

They were seeking positions,not responsibility. Career SF NCO's sought responsibility,not posititions.

A perfect example was SGM Charlie McGuire,the guy who invented the "McGuire Rig" for extracting wounded soldiers out of "holes" in the jungle via hovering helicopters. I had known and worked with him on support details to SFTG back at Bragg due to some sort of tragic misunderstandings between me and some leg MP's at Bragg,so McGuire and his even bigger MSG Pal were my babysitters. Where ever they went,I was doomed to follow. You can't have ANY fun at all with people like that watching you because they have seen and done it all themselves.

I once changed a flat tire on McGuire's personal 57 Chev pu (army surplus,of course) in Pisgah National forest while SGM McGuire grabbed a bumper and picked it up on that corner so I could pull the old wheel and tire off and replace it with the spare. No,you did NOT want him to put his hands on you in anger.

Believe it or not,McGuire became a preacher in SC after retiring from the army. I never ran in to him again after the day I wrote about above,but I have heard people say his whole personality changed and he became peaceful.

BTW,if there are any of you reading this who know who that huge MSG was that palled around with McGuire,I would like to be reminded of his name. Had a NYC accent and always wore a K-Bar on his belt everywhere he went,even at Bragg. If anything,he was a little scarier than McGuire was when it came to duty,but really funny and fun to talk with off-duty.  I should add that I doubt he thought he was being funny.

Evidentially SGM McGuire came back from VN and reported into Bragg the same day I did,because I was walking by the company orderly rooms in the 7th SFG,and the door burst open and the company SGM can tumbling down the cement steps,followed by Charlie McGuire,who stood at the top of the steps and said something like "I guess we both know who the company SGM is now,don't we,SOB?"

Not being as stupid as I sometimes seem to be,I put my head down and quickly walked away,muttering,"I didn't see nothing,I didn't hear nothing,I wasn't even here!".

It is a wise young NCO that makes himself scarce when SGM's are playing.

[catfish1957]

[HoustonSam]

There is one man who’s shown the will AND the capability to fight back...even those you claim you could support like Cruz, Paul and Cotton understand this...you either fight with the flawed leader we have or you let the Commies end this Republic.

@Mesaclone I certainly agree that the times require we cast our votes more pragmatically and less ideologically; half a Conservative loaf is far better than a complete "progressive" loaf.

But the idea that "one man has shown the will and capability to fight back" - that Trump alone can do it - drives us farther in the direction of your excellent Weimar Republic analogy, reduces Conservative thought to a personality cult, and is simply not true.  The three others you've named here yourself are more than willing and more than able, as are others such as Jim Jordan and Marsha Blackburn.  They might lack the charisma to win the presidency, but in retrospect Trump's charisma was as much negative as positive.

Trump did great work bringing specific issues to the forefront - stopping illegal immigration, re-building blue-collar opportunity, keeping the US out of unnecessary military excursions - and he truly led in those areas, he didn't pick up those ideas from anyone else.  He failed miserably on other fronts, including fiscal policy and a personal style so abrasive and megalomaniacal that he regularly alienated his own appointees and failed to unite his own party when it held both houses of Congress.

Plenty of us fell in behind Trump for the 2020 election in spite of his flaws, myself included.  But Trump failed to provide any effective leadership or strategy in responding to obvious electoral corruption, left his millions of loyal followers grasping at conspiracy theories and rumors, and entrusted that fight to people who ultimately proved incapable and embarrassing.

Trump deserves a lot of credit for the good he did, but if we believe that only he can lead the right then we might as well quit and go home now.  He can do great continued work as a cheerleader, but as the starting quarterback he simply isn't good enough to compensate for his flaws.

[bilo]

Do you understand that the federal government spent about $50,000 for every man woman and child in the US BEYOND what it took in over just Trump's presidency?

That is not trivial or without profound consequences. It is an epic failure by our leaders.

It insures that future generations will not live as well as we have.

It is simply insane and the death throes of dying Republic.

I think Trump was right to recognize that the debt is not going to be paid off by increasing revenues and decreasing expenditures. The federal govt is in the process of monetizing the debt. In the process the federal reserve will monoplize treasuries. Currently, there is still some interest in treasuries because other nations are in worse shape, but as that demand diminishes the fed will have to step in and buy more and more of the issued treasuries, eventually they will be buying almost all of them.

The questions we will have to confront is what will happen if the dollar stops being the benchmark currency and is replaced by the yuan?

[bilo]

Here’s where you go wrong. If this was America 1999 you’d have a point. But that’s not where we are. The proper analogy is Weimar Germany 1928....with the various conservative and centrist parties bickering with each other over how many angels sit astride the point of a needle....whilst the Socialists assume total power ((“National” Socialists in that particular case...Dem Socialists in our current dilemma) through manipulations of the ballot box and demagoguery.

You are focused on getting people to vote for more staunchly conservative candidates...a noble sentiment...by refusing to vote for those you deem insufficiently conservative...a common refrain of German conservative parties in 1928. Meanwhile, the Republic is being stolen away thanks to the internal bickering and disunity of the Right.

Put simply, the country doesn’t have time for your bullshit. There is one man who’s shown the will AND the capability to fight back...even those you claim you could support like Cruz, Paul and Cotton understand this...you either fight with the flawed leader we have or you let the Commies end this Republic.

That’s the only REAL choices left to any American. I wish it were otherwise but believing that would be a dangerous self delusion. This is the fight to save the Republic...opting out IS your right, but, it IS a decision to give the country over to the Left in perpetuity.

 

I didn't initially support Trump. I didn't like how he campaigned in the Pub primaries and didn't trust him to follow through on what he promised he would do. I sure came around! Trump fights.

[Bigun]

I didn't initially support Trump. I didn't like how he campaigned in the Pub primaries and didn't trust him to follow through on what he promised he would do. I sure came around! Trump fights.

  Exact same boat! Never voted for him until this year and I did so based solely on his performance in office.

[Sled Dog]

Absolutely not. You still don't get it. It don't matter a whit whatever I have admitted. Bark at the moon. Go ahead. It's going NOWHERE. And that is the point. Does it help somehow if I were to cave in and accept your POV?
Not even a damn little bit. You got nothin.

I get "it" just fine.

You lose whatever argument path you try to follow to disrupt discussion, you get your cracked posterior handed to you in a paper sack, you return to claiming some fantasy about "lack of evidence" and "venue", as if it's OUR job to be a formal court of legal recourse.   

It's not.

This is an internet forum where YOU have indeed personally seen all the facts and where you are required to decide wether you personally are either going come to terms with the actuality of those facts like an adult or insist on acting like
 a petulant child who wants the pinko cotton candy but isn't going to get it.

We've all seen the choice you continue to make.

[Sled Dog]

Friendly fire and accidents don't count. They don't get you a purple heart either.

Tell that to John Kerry.

[Sled Dog]

What leads to tyranny is big government. PERIOD.

What leads to big government is pretending the last election was not stolen despite all the evidence shown.