Stop the Third Party Insanity

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

https://townhall.com/columnists/kurtschlichter/2021/01/28/stop-the-third-party-insanity-n2583768

Let’s look at the big picture. The design of the Constitution essentially mandates a two-party system. A third party has never won the presidency, and one rarely wins legislative seats. Usually, such candidates call themselves “independents,” but Democrats know they are really Democrats and understand this is just a ploy to appeal to the suckers.

There is always going to be a party of the left, and a party of the right, with the battle over the middle. A party getting 55 percent of the vote is considered to have won in a landslide. America is that closely divided. For our sins, the party of the right is the Republican Party. And math says we are stuck with it.

You cannot divide the 50 percent of America on the right up and hope to beat the 50 percent on the left. It does not work, and all the hopes, dreams, and krakens of a million outraged conservatives on Twitter will not make it so. Politics must be about addition, and that implies we need to add people who are not as conservative as we are. If you want purity, date a nun. This is politics, and if you don’t win, you lose.


I propose we win.

Third parties do have a track record of disrupting elections. The Left blamed the Greens for Bush in 2000, and some blame the Libertarians, among other factors, for President * in 2020. Clinton won in 1992 because Perot split the vote for George H.W. Bush. But these events all have one thing in common – the third party never wins. Nor will one.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Gee Kurt, that sounds like hard work.

It is. It’s a lot easier to declare you are never ever voting GOP again on Twitter. But I was under the impression that we are the faction that is not averse to hard work, especially when it is our country at stake. So, this is a test – if you’re serious about winning, you stay GOP.

 

[Jazzhead]

Of course you stay GOP.   Otherwise you've declared your irrelevance.

[Ghost Bear]

I wonder how the Whigs are doing these days? Oh yeah, they were replaced by a "third party". I guess it has happened before.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

I wonder how the Whigs are doing these days? Oh yeah, they were replaced by a "third party". I guess it has happened before.

Yeah but was there as clear of a left-right split back then as there is now. If the Democrats and GOP weren't ideologically opposed then yes, you could have a viable third party... for a limited period of time. As it is: having an ideological left party and two ideologically right parties is a recipe for disaster. And I know you don't think the GOPe is an ideologically right party but the fact is that a lot of ideologically right people will vote for the GOPe.

[Ghost Bear]

Yeah but was there as clear of a left-right split back then as there is now. If the Democrats and GOP weren't ideologically opposed then yes, you could have a viable third party... for a limited period of time. As it is: having an ideological left party and two ideologically right parties is a recipe for disaster. And I know you don't think the GOPe is an ideologically right party but the fact is that a lot of ideologically right people will vote for the GOPe.

Our opinions differ. I think the ideological difference is no longer "left and right", but "elite and non-elite". Viewed in this way it is clear that we have one party for the elites, and no party for the non-elites. Some Republicans are part of the "non-elite" camp, just as some Whigs were anti-slavery. But since the establishment members of the Whigs insisted on doing nothing about slavery, the anti-slavery Whigs left to form a new party, the Republicans. I can see the same thing happening with the anti-elite Republicans, since the Republican establishment (the GOPe) insists on doing nothing about (or even opening supporting) the elites.

[bilo]

I wonder how the Whigs are doing these days? Oh yeah, they were replaced by a "third party". I guess it has happened before.

All you need to do to see if we need another party is ask, "is Liz Cheney still the 3rd ranking Pub in the House?".

Where was the Pub party when the election of Trump was stolen?

If the Pub party won't fight when we need them what good are they?

[Right_in_Virginia]

Yeah but was there as clear of a left-right split back then as there is now. If the Democrats and GOP weren't ideologically opposed then yes, you could have a viable third party... for a limited period of time. As it is: having an ideological left party and two ideologically right parties is a recipe for disaster.

FFS I've been hearing this for years; even believed at one time.  But the current GOP is a useless, corrupt, unnecessary obstacle to freedom.  The only thing that will hurt the right and America is allowing the GOP to end on its timetable. 

[Right_in_Virginia]

All you need to do to see if we need another party is ask, "is Liz Cheney still the 3rd ranking Pub in the House?".

Where was the Pub party when the election of Trump was stolen?

If the Pub party won't fight when we need them what good are they?

And they think Trump supporters are insurrectionists. 

[verga]

All you need to do to see if we need another party is ask, "is Liz Cheney still the 3rd ranking Pub in the House?".

Where was the Pub party when the election of Trump was stolen?

If the Pub party won't fight when we need them what good are they?

[Longiron]

FFS I've been hearing this for years; even believed at one time.  But the current GOP is a useless, corrupt, unnecessary obstacle to freedom.  The only thing that will hurt the right and America is allowing the GOP to end on its timetable.

So true! as time goes on the DEPLORABLES will be screaming for a third party. For some reason TRUMP still thinks he is the leader of the REPUBLICAN Party. He is being told that by his RINO advisors and JARVANKA. However, the RINO RNC thinks different? 

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2021/01/27/rnc-will-not-back-trump-in-primary-if-he-runs-again-will-stay-neutra

[Bigun]

FFS I've been hearing this for years; even believed at one time.  But the current GOP is a useless, corrupt, unnecessary obstacle to freedom.  The only thing that will hurt the right and America is allowing the GOP to end on its timetable.

  On a national level this is 100% true and it isn't that much better at my state level.

[Jazzhead]

All you need to do to see if we need another party is ask, "is Liz Cheney still the 3rd ranking Pub in the House?".

Where was the Pub party when the election of Trump was stolen?

If the Pub party won't fight when we need them what good are they?

There is no shortage of "fight".   But doesn't mean we have to fight stupid,  or back those whose motivations are entirely cynical. 

The current fight is with those progs who think this election represented a mandate for destruction. 

[Mesaclone]

Our opinions differ. I think the ideological difference is no longer "left and right", but "elite and non-elite". Viewed in this way it is clear that we have one party for the elites, and no party for the non-elites. Some Republicans are part of the "non-elite" camp, just as some Whigs were anti-slavery. But since the establishment members of the Whigs insisted on doing nothing about slavery, the anti-slavery Whigs left to form a new party, the Republicans. I can see the same thing happening with the anti-elite Republicans, since the Republican establishment (the GOPe) insists on doing nothing about (or even opening supporting) the elites.

Excellent point on the “Elites vs non-Elites”. The Roman body politic under the Republic had a Patricians vs Plebeians aspect that quite closely parallels our current situation. This conflict nearly extinguished the early Republic and led at one point to the secession of the Plebs....huge compromises were made by the Patricians resulting in the innovation of the Tribunate...Tribunes being elected Plebs who could veto ANY legislation brought forward by the Senate. Not a bad check on “elite” power.

[Mesaclone]

There is no shortage of "fight".   But doesn't mean we have to fight stupid,  or back those whose motivations are entirely cynical. 

The current fight is with those progs who think this election represented a mandate for destruction.

There is one path by which the GOP survives...a purging of the RINO element and party leadership being placed fully in the hands of Donald Trump and his close allies. A renaming of the party as The Patriot party would be helpful as well. Anything less will not save the GOP.

[libertybele]

FFS I've been hearing this for years; even believed at one time.  But the current GOP is a useless, corrupt, unnecessary obstacle to freedom. The only thing that will hurt the right and America is allowing the GOP to end on its timetable.

Absolutely agree.  The question is Where Do We Go From Here and How Do We Get There??

[libertybele]

There is one path by which the GOP survives...a purging of the RINO element and party leadership being placed fully in the hands of Donald Trump and his close allies. A renaming of the party as The Patriot party would be helpful as well. Anything less will not save the GOP.

??? How do you propose to do that?  Getting rid of RINO's how?  The ballot box is broken and the GOPe leadership will try to ensure that RINO incumbents keep their seats.  Chance are most will be thrown out on their ears next election cycle anyways by the corruption and fraud of the DEMS. 

Let the GOP fall; but something needs to be done before that.

Trump already stated that he's no longer interested in forming the Patriot Party.

[Jazzhead]

There is one path by which the GOP survives...a purging of the RINO element and party leadership being placed fully in the hands of Donald Trump and his close allies. A renaming of the party as The Patriot party would be helpful as well. Anything less will not save the GOP.

Why does the GOP need to purged of anyone who opposes Trump?   What of those of us who are Reaganites, or libertarians, or, God forbid,  want to see fiscal responsibility and balanced budgets?    The GOP can only succeed as a coalition.

This is possibly the most foolish post I've ever seen you make on this board.   If your vision of the GOP doesn't include Main Street conservatism,  then maybe it's best that you exit the arena for your safe little corner of like -minded Trump religionists..

[skeeter]

There is one path by which the GOP survives...a purging of the RINO element and party leadership being placed fully in the hands of Donald Trump and his close allies. A renaming of the party as The Patriot party would be helpful as well. Anything less will not save the GOP.

And offer the voters an actual choice between two clear visions of where the country should be taken? Don't be absurd!

Seriously, at least the purged RINOs wouldn't be left out in the cold - they have a party they can run to that already suits them very well.

[libertybele]

Why does the GOP need to purged of anyone who opposes Trump?   What of those of us who are Reaganites, or libertarians, or, God forbid,  want to see fiscal responsibility and balanced budgets?    The GOP can only succeed as a coalition.

This is possibly the most foolish post I've ever seen you make on this board.   If your vision of the GOP doesn't include Main Street conservatism,  then maybe it's best that you exit the arena for your safe little corner of like -minded Trump religionists..

Hello @Jazzhead  again for the umpteenth hundredth time, this isn't about Trump or purging anyone who opposes him.  This IS about election integrity that wasn't and Cruz and Halwey had every right to request proof of election integrity before certification.

Just for the record again; President Trump did NOT incite a riot; his request was for a PEACEFUL march.

WE THE PEOPLE HAVE THE RIGHT TO A FAIR ELECTION!

The GOP is gone. Dead.  It cannot be revived; it is too liberalized to the point that there isn't much of the party left and we basically have or will shortly have a one party system.

[Jazzhead]

Hello @Jazzhead  again for the umpteenth hundredth time, this isn't about Trump or purging anyone who opposes him.  This IS about election integrity that wasn't and Cruz and Halwey had every right to request proof of election integrity before certification.

Just for the record again; President Trump did NOT incite a riot; his request was for a PEACEFUL march.

WE THE PEOPLE HAVE THE RIGHT TO A FAIR ELECTION!

There was a fair election.  Trump lost (even as other Republicans did quite well.)

Get over it.  This is what happens every four years.   The people speak,  and it is our responsibility as patriotic Americans to respect their verdict.   Not to incite insurrection against the Peoples' House!

Edit:  And to make myself perfectly clear - I have never objected to raising issues of fraud, etc BEFORE a state's electors are certified.   But once that avenue is exhausted it is our duty to be gracious and respectful of the process by which we choose our leaders and effect the peaceful transfer of power.

[libertybele]

There was a fair election.  Trump lost (even as other Republicans did quite well.)

Get over it.  This is what happens every four years.   The people speak,  and it is our responsibility as patriotic Americans to respect their verdict.   Not to incite insurrection against the Peoples' House!

Do you like hearing yourself repeat the same b.s., or is it you just refuse to admit the truth?

[skeeter]

There was a fair election.  Trump lost (even as other Republicans did quite well.)

Get over it.  This is what happens every four years.   The people speak,  and it is our responsibility as patriotic Americans to respect their verdict.   Not to incite insurrection against the Peoples' House!

Edit:  And to make myself perfectly clear - I have never objected to raising issues of fraud, etc BEFORE a state's electors are certified.   But once that avenue is exhausted it is our duty to be gracious and respectful of the process by which we choose our leaders and effect the peaceful transfer of power.

No sale.

Try again.

[Jazzhead]

Do you like hearing yourself repeat the same b.s., or is it you just refuse to admit the truth?

You're the one who can't handle the truth.   Quit whining and celebrate what's good and right about our Republic.

[Jazzhead]

No sale.

Try again.

Thanks for the bump