Author Topic: (Updates)Texas Sues Georgia, Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin at Supreme Court over Election Ru  (Read 17311 times)

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Online libertybele

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I like the amendment ideas that were reported out.

If we're truly going to right the ship however, I think we need an impeachment procedure for Federal Officials in which *the states* impeach and *the states* convict.  If, say, 1/2 of the *state legislatures* passed a given resolution to impeach a SCOTUS Justice, and if a committee of *state legislators* were called specifically to serve as the jury and voted 2/3 to convict, then we'd be putting some teeth back into state sovereignty for the Reserved Powers.

You can probably see that I believe the 17th Amendment, which essentially divorced the Senators from the State Governments they were intended to represent, is a critical flaw in the current Constitution.  But we'll never get it repealed.

Of course this specific is just "pie in the sky", but I do wonder whether the state level is the battleground to choose.

There could have been amendment to birthright citizenship and eligibility requirements to become President in which the language could have been changed to be more specific.

I certainly wouldn't want a convention of states to be held these days as the liberals are in power and probably will be from this point forward -- a frightening thought in fact.

Battleground at the state level -- perhaps --- obviously trying to rectify things from the top down at the Federal level hasn't worked.  Unfortunately as well, more and more states are becoming liberal due to changing demographics, tax structure, etc.
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Online Cyber Liberty

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I don't think Posobiec's blaming China.  I think he's saying they're celebrating the outcome of this court case.  @Cyber Liberty  ---

Ah!  OK, I can accept that interpretation.  Posobiec is a good one.   :beer:
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Offline corbe

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   A good place to Start, IMHO.

No government in the 12,000 years of modern mankind history has led its people into anything but the history books with a simple lesson, don't let this happen to you.

Online roamer_1

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it is NOT just the GOP @roamer_1 there is a reason why those people are REQUIRED by the Constitution itself to swear an oath of fidelity to the Constitution EVERY time they are sworn into office!

Makes no difference at all to those to whom their word has no value... Just mouthing the words, @Bigun

Like so many more. Still it is the GOP that is tasked with standing and defending our beginnings in Conservatism... Something few have done in my lifetime.

Sin does not abide... Evil does not sulk in the shadows. It rises. High. And those who are sworn to meet it and defend us in this government have not only done nothing - They collude with it. They participate.

The problem of politicians instead of statesmen.
Much the very same thing as seminary trained pastors instead of true believing preachers. The difference being that when a church succumbs to society one can walk off and find another... Not so easy with governments.


Online Bigun

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I like the amendment ideas that were reported out.

If we're truly going to right the ship however, I think we need an impeachment procedure for Federal Officials in which *the states* impeach and *the states* convict.  If, say, 1/2 of the *state legislatures* passed a given resolution to impeach a SCOTUS Justice, and if a committee of *state legislators* were called specifically to serve as the jury and voted 2/3 to convict, then we'd be putting some teeth back into state sovereignty for the Reserved Powers.

You can probably see that I believe the 17th Amendment, which essentially divorced the Senators from the State Governments they were intended to represent, is a critical flaw in the current Constitution.  But we'll never get it repealed.

Of course this specific is just "pie in the sky", but I do wonder whether the state level is the battleground to choose.

@HoustonSam

During the Philadelphia convention, a proposal was made to permit the federal government to suppress a seceding state. James Madison, the Father of the Constitution, rejected it. Minutes from the debate paraphrased his opinion: “A union of the states containing such an ingredient would provide for its own destruction. The use of force against a state would look more like a declaration of war than an infliction of punishment and would probably be considered by the party attacked as a dissolution of all previous compacts by which it might be bound.”

During the ratification debates, Virginia’s delegates said, “The powers granted under the Constitution being derived from the people of the United States may be resumed by them whensoever the same shall be perverted to their injury or oppression.” The ratification documents of New York and Rhode Island expressed similar sentiments; namely, they held the right to dissolve their relationship with the United States.

And the following is quoted from:

BLACKSTONE'S COMMENTARIES: WITH NOTES OF REFERENCE, TO THE CONSTITUTION AND LAWS,
OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES;
AND OF THE COMMONWEALTH OF VIRGINIA.

IN FIVE VOLUMES. WITH AN APPENDIX TO EACH VOLUME,
CONTAINING SHORT TRACTS UPON SUCH SUBJECTS AS APPEARED NECESSARY
TO FORM A CONNECTED VIEW OF THE LAWS OF VIRGINIA,
AS A MEMBER OF THE FEDERAL UNION.

BY ST. GEORGE TUCKER, PROFESSOR OF LAW, IN THE UNIVERSITY OF WILLIAM AND MARY, AND
ONE OF THE JUDGES OF THE GENERAL COURT IN VIRGINIA.

PHILADELPHIA: PUBLISHED BY WILLIAM YOUNG BIRCH, AND ABRAHAM SMALL,
NO. 17, SOUTH SECOND-STREET.
ROBERT CARR, PRINTER.
1803.

(These were the law books universally used by every institution in this land from the time of their publication until the late 1850s and are still used as references to this very day.)


"Although the federal government can, in no possible view, be considered as a party to a compact made anterior to its existence, and by which it was, in fact, created; yet as the creature of that compact, it must be bound by it, to its creators, the several states in the union, and the citizens thereof. Having no existence but under the constitution, nor any rights, but such as that instrument confers; and those very rights being in fact duties; it can possess no legitimate power, but such, as is absolutely necessary for the performance of a duty, prescribed and enjoined by the constitution. Its duties, then, become the exact measure of its powers; and wherever it exerts a power for any other purpose, than the performance of a duty prescribed by the constitution, it transgresses its proper limits, and violates the public trust. Its duties, being moreover imposed for the general benefit and security of the several states, in their politic character; and of the people, both in their sovereign, and individual capacity, if these objects be not obtained, the government will not answer the end of its creation: it is therefore bound to the several states, respectively, and to every citizen thereof, for the due execution of those duties. And the observance of this obligation is enforced, by the solemn sanction of an oath, from all who administer the government.
The constitution of the United States, then being that instrument by which the federal government hath been created; its powers defined, and limited; and the duties, and functions of its several departments prescribed; the government, thus established, may be pronounced to be a confederate republic, composed of several independent, and sovereign democratic states, united for their common defence, and security against foreign nations, and for the purposes of harmony, and mutual intercourse between each other; each state retaining an entire liberty of exercising, as it thinks proper, all those parts of its sovereignty, which are not mentioned in the constitution, or act of union, as parts that ought to be exercised in common. It is the supreme law of the land, and as such binding upon the federal government; the several states; and finally upon all the citizens of the United States.... It can not be controlled, or altered without the express consent of the body politic of three fourths of the states in the union, or, of the people, of an equal number of the states. To prevent the necessity of an immediate appeal to the latter, a method is pointed out, by which amendments may be proposed and ratified by the concurrent act of two thirds of both houses of congress, and three fourths of the state legislatures: but if congress should neglect to propose amendments in this way, when they may be deemed necessary, the concurrent sense of two thirds of the state legislatures may enforce congress to call a convention, the amendments proposed by which, when ratified by the conventions of three fourths of the states, become valid, as a part of the constitution. In either mode, the assent of the body politic of the states, is necessary, either to complete, or to originate the measure."

“Their submission to its operation is voluntary: it’s councils, it’s engagements, it’s authority are theirs, modified, and united. Its sovereignty is an emanation from theirs, not a flame by which they have been consumed, nor a vortex in which they are swallowed up. Each is still a perfect state, still sovereign, still independent, and still capable, should the occasion require, to resume the exercise of its functions, as such, in the most unlimited extent."


"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline HoustonSam

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"In any bureaucracy, the people devoted to the benefit of the bureaucracy itself always get in control and those dedicated to the goals the bureaucracy is supposed to accomplish have less and less influence, and sometimes are eliminated entirely."

Pournelle's Iron Law of Bureaucracy

Thanks @Bigun.  While I remembered the concept, I have been searching for the specific name and wording of this principle for years.
James 1:20

Online Bigun

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THAT IS RIGHT.

NO! It isn't right!  The republic ended in 1865 and although there remained something CALLED the United States of America it was NOT the same, by any stretch of the imagination, as the Republic our founders envisioned! @roamer_1
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline yodaspock

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Any one know someone at the state of Texas income tax? They need to set up accounts so I can send my Tax money there. If I don't get a free elections I don't have to pay US. Federal tax money!


Offline HoustonSam

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@HoustonSam

During the Philadelphia convention, a proposal was made to permit the federal government to suppress a seceding state. James Madison, the Father of the Constitution, rejected it. Minutes from the debate paraphrased his opinion: “A union of the states containing such an ingredient would provide for its own destruction. The use of force against a state would look more like a declaration of war than an infliction of punishment and would probably be considered by the party attacked as a dissolution of all previous compacts by which it might be bound.”

During the ratification debates, Virginia’s delegates said, “The powers granted under the Constitution being derived from the people of the United States may be resumed by them whensoever the same shall be perverted to their injury or oppression.” The ratification documents of New York and Rhode Island expressed similar sentiments; namely, they held the right to dissolve their relationship with the United States.
..............

"Although the federal government can, in no possible view, be considered as a party to a compact made anterior to its existence, and by which it was, in fact, created; yet as the creature of that compact, it must be bound by it, to its creators, the several states in the union, and the citizens thereof. Having no existence but under the constitution, nor any rights, but such as that instrument confers; and those very rights being in fact duties; it can possess no legitimate power, but such, as is absolutely necessary for the performance of a duty, prescribed and enjoined by the constitution.

.............

“Their submission to its operation is voluntary: it’s councils, it’s engagements, it’s authority are theirs, modified, and united. Its sovereignty is an emanation from theirs, not a flame by which they have been consumed, nor a vortex in which they are swallowed up. Each is still a perfect state, still sovereign, still independent, and still capable, should the occasion require, to resume the exercise of its functions, as such, in the most unlimited extent."


All of which was summarily swept aside in 1861; Pournelle was fully in operation even then, as was the tendency to believe that a superior moral point of view confers authority to impose that point of view.
James 1:20

Offline skeeter

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Any one know someone at the state of Texas income tax? They need to set up accounts so I can send my Tax money there. If I don't get a free elections I don't have to pay US. Federal tax money!

A general tax strike is about the only way I can think of for the individual reassert himself over the government. But it will take one whole helluvalot of us participating, and a willingness to go to the mat.

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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This Republic that just vanished was only meant to work with a moral population, and that ship sailed before we were even born.
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Online Bigun

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There could have been amendment to birthright citizenship and eligibility requirements to become President in which the language could have been changed to be more specific.

I certainly wouldn't want a convention of states to be held these days as the liberals are in power and probably will be from this point forward -- a frightening thought in fact.

Battleground at the state level -- perhaps --- obviously trying to rectify things from the top down at the Federal level hasn't worked.  Unfortunately as well, more and more states are becoming liberal due to changing demographics, tax structure, etc.

SCOTUS has never applied the term "natural born citizen" to any other category than “those born in the country of parents who are citizens thereof”

The Venus, 12 U.S. 8 Cranch 253 253 (1814)

"The natives or indigenes are those born in the country of parents who are citizens."

Minor v. Happersett , 88 U.S. 162 (1875)

"At common law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives or natural-born citizens, "

United States v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649 (1898)

"(A)ll children, born in a country of parents who were its citizens, became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives, or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners."

And all of that happened BEFORE this foolish idea of "standing' was manufactured by the courts!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Online roamer_1

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NO! It isn't right!  The republic ended in 1865 and although there remained something CALLED the United States of America it was NOT the same, by any stretch of the imagination, as the Republic our founders envisioned! @roamer_1

Still it is feckless politicians that cause what we have to remain.
There is no opposition.

Online Bigun

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All of which was summarily swept aside in 1861; Pournelle was fully in operation even then, as was the tendency to believe that a superior moral point of view confers authority to impose that point of view.

 :yowsa: That's exactly right @HoustonSam in its entirety!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Online Bigun

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Any one know someone at the state of Texas income tax? They need to set up accounts so I can send my Tax money there. If I don't get a free elections I don't have to pay US. Federal tax money!

Texas does not have an income tax and our Constitution prohibits us from having one!

Why would anyone want a tax system endorsed by Karl Marx and Frederick Engels? @yodaspock
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline XenaLee

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Courts have been using the matter of standing to dodge facing the facts, ...

 :yowsa: And it's total BS.  This court contrived BS is a direct affront to the Constitution and our form of government!

Yes, because dodging is not upholding the Constitution.  It is, in fact, the exact opposite. 
No quarter given to the enemy within...ever.

You can vote your way into socialism, but you have to shoot your way out of it.

Online Bigun

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Makes no difference at all to those to whom their word has no value... Just mouthing the words, @Bigun

Like so many more. Still it is the GOP that is tasked with standing and defending our beginnings in Conservatism... Something few have done in my lifetime.

Sin does not abide... Evil does not sulk in the shadows. It rises. High. And those who are sworn to meet it and defend us in this government have not only done nothing - They collude with it. They participate.

The problem of politicians instead of statesmen.
Much the very same thing as seminary trained pastors instead of true believing preachers. The difference being that when a church succumbs to society one can walk off and find another... Not so easy with governments.
You'll get no argument from me on that @roamer_1 
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline yodaspock

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Texas does not have an income tax and our Constitution prohibits us from having one!

Why would anyone want a tax system endorsed by Karl Marx and Frederick Engels? @yodaspock
I still need to pay taxes, I just need some Gov body to accept the tax money, so they can negotiate To get free and fair Elections.

 I have no idea what this means;
Why would anyone want a tax system endorsed by Karl Marx and Frederick Engels?
I am not interested in avoiding taxes, just leverageing them to get free fair elections.

Online libertybele

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SCOTUS has never applied the term "natural born citizen" to any other category than “those born in the country of parents who are citizens thereof”

The Venus, 12 U.S. 8 Cranch 253 253 (1814)

"The natives or indigenes are those born in the country of parents who are citizens."

Minor v. Happersett , 88 U.S. 162 (1875)

"At common law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives or natural-born citizens, "

United States v. Wong Kim Ark, 169 U.S. 649 (1898)

"(A)ll children, born in a country of parents who were its citizens, became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives, or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners."

And all of that happened BEFORE this foolish idea of "standing' was manufactured by the courts!

I referenced the idea of amending birthright citizenship thinking of Harris...how foolish of me...the current SCOTUS would more than likely not even hear the case anyways.
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Online catfish1957

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A general tax strike is about the only way I can think of for the individual reassert himself over the government. But it will take one whole helluvalot of us participating, and a willingness to go to the mat.

Very true.  OTOH, as I have said on other threads, there are things we can so as conservatives can do that basically can strangle the Biden/Socialist economy.  If every conservative or every other disenfranchised voter would plea to basically postoponing and boycott buying any medium to big ticket item in the next few years, we could wreck havoc.  I mean in terms of trillions of dollars of impact on a cascading basis. $ = power

After bringing the country to its knees, a followup general tax strike would basically poison the swamp, and allow the republic to start back at square 1.
I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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A general tax strike is about the only way I can think of for the individual reassert himself over the government. But it will take one whole helluvalot of us participating, and a willingness to go to the mat.

There is only one way to defeat tyranny.  And Republican voters have proven they haven't the stomach for it.  We instead comfort ourselves by turning the political victim of lawlessness into the impetus; and we convince ourselves next time we'll get them, for sure, at the ballot box because we'll run the right candidate. 

The tyrannical leaders know we are too afraid to risk what we have left and we will only hope and pray they won't take the rest.  If laughter could be weaponized we'd surely have slain our new overlords. 

I guess we'll be ready for battle after they confiscate our guns.

Online Fishrrman

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bele wrote:
"We need to move forward somehow..."

I think we need to ask ourselves, how will traditional-minded Americans survive best within a regime that begins first as "socialist" but soon devolves into communist...?

Will we be able to protect our assets -- real property, financial holdings, etc.?
How will we protect whatever individual freedoms will be left?
How will we deal with the increasing repression on both mass and personal scales that is bound to come with an increasingly marxist regime?
And how will white Americans fare in the face of a government that will relentlessly attack them on the basis of their race?

I first put up "The American Timeline" a number of months ago (perhaps even a few years, can't remember). I added the graphic a little later.
Most of you have seen it before, because I repeat it now and then.
Oddly enough, I never got much in the way of comments about it.
Never got told I was off the mark. I was expecting that, but it never happened.

So... here it is, once more.
2019: USA -- United States of America
2027: USSA -- United Socialist States of America
2035: USSSA -- United Soviet Socialist States of America
2042:  ?????



I take no pleasure in America's oncoming era of socialism/marxism/communism.
I know that I won't live to see the end of it -- and neither will you. I reckon at least 40-50 years before it can begin to end, long enough for at least two entire generations to be born, and come through the propaganda of "public education", to a point where they (like us years before) can see things as they are, not as they're told. Only then will the communists "lose the young" to the truth. And communist America won't end until that point is reached.

It took the Soviet Union (and Euro-communism) 75 years to collapse beneath its own weight of failure.

How long will it take here?
« Last Edit: December 13, 2020, 03:00:15 am by Fishrrman »

Offline skeeter

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There is only one way to defeat tyranny.  And Republican voters have proven they haven't the stomach for it.  We instead comfort ourselves by turning the political victim of lawlessness into the impetus; and we convince ourselves next time we'll get them, for sure, at the ballot box because we'll run the right candidate. 

The tyrannical leaders know we are too afraid to risk what we have left and we will only hope and pray they won't take the rest.  If laughter could be weaponized we'd surely have slain our new overlords. 

I guess we'll be ready for battle after they confiscate our guns.

I can think of no faster way to bring things to a violent head than to starve the beast of what it craves. And we won't have committed the first overt act.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Trump Approves Filing Retooled Texas-Style Election Challenges: Giuliani
By Zachary Stieber
December 12, 2020 Updated: December 12, 2020

President Donald Trump’s legal team is planning on filing retooled lawsuits, his lawyer said Saturday.

“We move immediately, seamlessly, to plan B, which is to bring lawsuits now in each one of the states. We had them ready. They’re just a version of the one that was brought in the Supreme Court. So last night, the president made the decision,” Rudy Giuliani said during an appearance on “War Room: Pandemic.”

Texas filed a lawsuit in the Supreme Court against Pennsylvania, Georgia, Wisconsin, and Michigan, alleging the elections there were run contrary to the Constitution. The nation’s top court rejected the suit late Friday.

Trump’s team is going to file suits or has already filed in the four states as well as Arizona and Nevada. The suits will incorporate allegations in the complaint filed by Texas.

“If the state doesn’t have standing, surely the president of the United States has standing. And certainly the electors in the states have standing. So they will be bringing those very cases right in those courts, starting today,” Giuliani said. “And let’s see what excuse they can try to use to avoid having a hearing on that.”

Courts have been using the matter of standing to dodge facing the facts, he alleged, adding, “Nobody wants to face the reality that this election was stolen.”

more
https://www.theepochtimes.com/trump-approves-filing-retooled-texas-style-election-challenges-giuliani_3615492.html
No one wanted to admit that Lolo Soetoro's adopted boy, raised as an Indonesian Muslim, wasn't Constitutionally qualified to hold the office he abused for eight years, either.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Smokin Joe

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I am not going to blame foreign boogeymen for what we have allowed to happen to ourselves.  That includes George Soros.
I am and I am not. Granted, they have provided great incentive for the current treason, for their personal gains. But they would have been able to do nothing had those who caved resisted instead and remained faithful to their oaths. That treason is the unforgivable one.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis