Pardon My Perplexity, But Why Should We Be Gracious?

[Bigun]

Then it should show in the recount in GA... Like I said all along, I am all for prosecution. But like in all things, I want actionable proof, not internet gossip. If what you believe is true, the hand count should necessarily expose electronic tampering.

Maybe! An actual witnessed buy both sides, audit of every single ballot would for sure! Not sure that is actually what's happening, however.

[Victoria33]

@Cyber Liberty

My answers in bold.
True enough at first blush, but I must note:  AZ requires both a Dem and Rep to count the ballots together.  That opens an avenue for somebody to throw sand in the gears:  In the Peoples Republic of Maricopa, the Rats decided to boycott the counting, which is why they were counting 150,000 ballots a day last week, but are now only counting a couple thousand per day (if that).
The Dems could be there or not be there.  Stupid to choose not being there.

You failed to take into account Democrat chicanery, and that is always a mistake!  In PA, the Dems allowed observers, but they were roped off so far away they could not see what was happening without a telescope.
I watched that as it happened.  There were both Dems and Reps working on mail ballots - one Dem and one Rep checking one ballot materials.  They were not counting these ballots - they were stacking up the qualified ballots and then they would go to the workers (Dems and Reps) working the tabulating machines.

The only people allowed in that room besides the Judge and appointed workers (appointed by Dem and Rep Chairman), are the certified poll watchers.  This is to protect the workers, so the identity of the workers will not be out in public.

There were some counting machines that were >125 feet away from the Observers! 
The only people in Central Counting where the tabulation machines are, are the Dems and Reps working those machines AND certified poll watchers.  Reps were there working alongside Dems so there were Reps there; the Dems could not keep out Rep workers.

In Deetroit, it was even worse because not only did they not allow Observers into the building, they covered all the windows with cardboard so they could not see even from the street.
Think "Security".  Only qualified workers and certified poll watchers, both Dems and Reps are in that building.  Opening the building, would get you physical fighting and perhaps, killing.

I watched the workers put up cardboard on the outside of the windows, so the general public could not see the workers and I was glad they did it, to protect the workers.  If that had been my Early Voting Ballot Board, I would have put up the cardboard myself but would have covered the windows from the inside; would not be on the outside of the window with all the public there.

That doesn't even begin to address the fact that elections officials in states where Democrats ran the elections,...
Both Dems and Reps work in federal elections including Central Counting.  No state has only one party holding a federal general election with no one other than Dems (or Reps) running it.

...told everybody to go home for the night, and during that time thousands and thousands of ballets "appeared" at the moment Biteme mysteriously jumped into the lead in MI, PA, WI and GA.  there were no Observers there, either.
This did not happen in the middle of the night with only Dems there; what did happen, is:
Mail Ballot numbers, in some states, came in AFTER early voting and vote in person numbers due to some states' Election Code saying mail ballots may not be checked/counted until election day or days after general election numbers.  So, when mail ballots numbers started coming in, it appeared thousands of ballots suddenly piled in for Biden.

I saw Penn. Secretary of State speak about the mail ballots that came in after election day, and he had those ballots separated and sealed in plastic until the question about these ballots were answered.  This was adjudicated and he was told to count these ballots and there were a small amount of these ballots, less than 200, and they would not have changed the outcome of the election.

I don't think this would be OK for you, with your knowledge of election laws, but it is certainly not OK for me (a "reasonable person")

Okay, I am going to Penn. Election Code to be totally sure who does what when.  I did hear their Sec. of State address mail ballots regarding the reporting of numbers which is like some other states.  I think those states' Election Code must be changed to qualify mail ballots before election day.  This election has been a mess due to so many mail ballots and different times of states qualifying them.

[roamer_1]

ICYMI, I'm agreeing with you on this.

I didn't miss it. 

[Cyber Liberty]

I think every school had a third tier organization.  Zeta Tau Alpha was Zits, Tits, and Armpits.

I was TKE.  We were simultaneously the "animal house" and the highest GPA among the Fraternities.  Go figure.

[Cyber Liberty]

I didn't miss it. 

I'm mad as Hell that AZ falls into the "rotten GOP" Governors and AGs category.

[Bigun]

I didn't miss it. 

I'm already in the "Not a Republican" category as far as the national party is concerned and, depending on what happens in coming days here in Texas, that may soon extend to the state level as well.

[Hoodat]

Sure they do - They're called 'Users' 

And it is not local government. It is state election certification boards. That's going to have access to high level IT folks that should be able to subvert any widespread tampering. Locked machines in kiosk mode is what is at the local level.

Users on a system that doesn't utilize passwords, or can grant admin access to anyone.  Pop out a card reader, unplug a port, and voila!  Do whatever you want.

As for state certification boards, these machines are still handed over to county boards after certification.  At which point the code can easily be altered.

[bigheadfred]

I was TKE.  We were simultaneously the "animal house" and the highest GPA among the Fraternities.  Go figure.

duh

Accountability

[roamer_1]

Users on a system that doesn't utilize passwords, or can grant admin access to anyone.  Pop out a card reader, unplug a port, and voila!  Do whatever you want.

As for state certification boards, these machines are still handed over to county boards after certification.  At which point the code can easily be altered.

I don't think that's true. A certed machine would be locked in order to secure it's certified condition.

[Hoodat]

Then it should show in the recount in GA... Like I said all along, I am all for prosecution. But like in all things, I want actionable proof, not internet gossip. If what you believe is true, the hand count should necessarily expose electronic tampering.

Between 4:07:43 and 4:08:51, Trump lost 17,877 votes while Biden gained 17,930.  Whether this is malware or not, it unequivocally proves that Dominion software cannot be trusted.

[roamer_1]

I'm with you on that.  100%.  Unfortunately, the Republican candidate is the only one offering me a ride to the dance.

Heh. Well that explains me... I never go to the dance. Me and mine are down at the river having a bonfire.   

[roamer_1]

In my experience, it is standard practice to have IT techs from the vendors standing by on election day "to do what needs to be done" in case there are any "glitches"

I can't speak to that, or the contract between the provider and the state.

[Bigun]

I don't think that's true. A certed machine would be locked in order to secure it's certified condition.

You obviously do not know what happens to these machines pre-election in the jurisdictions I'm familiar with.

Here, every county election supervisor has full access to them and full authority to call in a vendor tech at any time if it becomes necessary.

[Hoodat]

I don't think that's true. A certed machine would be locked in order to secure it's certified condition.

Again

[roamer_1]

Between 4:07:43 and 4:08:51, Trump lost 17,877 votes while Biden gained 17,930.  Whether this is malware or not, it unequivocally proves that Dominion software cannot be trusted.

Then prove it. And by the way, a javascript output after-the-fact is not proof.

[Cyber Liberty]

I don't think that's true. A certed machine would be locked in order to secure it's certified condition.

Then how did Dominion get away with a software update the late-night before the Election?  That would never have been allowed if the laws governing the Certs were followed.

[Hoodat]

Then prove it. And by the way, a javascript output after-the-fact is not proof.

Are you asking me to do the math for you?  Or are you simply dismissing it outright because it was a JavaScript output during-the-fact?

[Bigun]

Then how did Dominion get away with a software update the late-night before the Election?  That would never have been allowed if the laws governing the Certs were followed.

 

Or in the middle of the night during the counting of votes for that matter!

[roamer_1]

Again

Yeah... It must be true, because Youtube. 

[roamer_1]

Are you asking me to do the math for you?  Or are you simply dismissing it outright because it was a JavaScript output during-the-fact?

The provenance of that file is questionable. That is not proof. If it WAS proof, at least they would show the actual code, and not just the output.... And the javascript code in question is not part of the actual electoral system... If it was jackin the vote numbers, it was not doing it IN the system, but downstream in the feed to the media. IOW, it could only be messin with the output after the system.

Proof is in the audit files. Proof is in the record.

[roamer_1]

Then how did Dominion get away with a software update the late-night before the Election?  That would never have been allowed if the laws governing the Certs were followed.

Sure it would if the update has been certed.

[Cyber Liberty]

Sure it would if the update has been certed.

It could not have been!  Everybody not in on the racket were asleep in their beds at home.

I agree with your basic premise about "evidence."  We won't see it until the trials.  I'm as patient as you are, but it does not prevent me from speculating, based on obvious statistical anomalies.  It just isn't legal evidence yet.

[Hoodat]

The provenance of that file is questionable. That is not proof. If it WAS proof, at least they would show the actual code, and not just the output.... And the javascript code in question is not part of the actual electoral system... If it was jackin the vote numbers, it was not doing it IN the system, but downstream in the feed to the media. IOW, it could only be messin with the output after the system.

Proof is in the audit files. Proof is in the record.

OK, I'll try again after Trump wins the Georgia recount.

[roamer_1]

You obviously do not know what happens to these machines pre-election in the jurisdictions I'm familiar with.

Here, every county election supervisor has full access to them and full authority to call in a vendor tech at any time if it becomes necessary.

Then there's your problem right there. any certified machine is no longer certified if it has been accessed. Now, perhaps there are levels of access... Permissions. similar to your Windows box, where there are several levels of users with differing authority. Policy based accesses... I don't know all that, especially in 50 different states.

[Victoria33]

@Cyber Liberty

One cannot know if the state's Election Code has been broken if one does not know what their Election Code says.  Below is the link to the Pennsylvania Election Code.  I will read this, looking at the person responsible for holding elections.  Looking at the two parties requirements in a federal election.  Looking at the method for qualifying mail ballots; who does it; what the two parties do in qualifying mail ballots; what is the deadline for mail ballots getting to the person responsible for mail ballots.

I figure this will take two or three bottles of Corona Light beer before I have finished this work.  I will have to stop working on this between 2pm and 4pm, as our friend, dog groomer, Karin, will be here at 2pm to groom Prissy.  Karin is slightly nuts as she has adopted herself as my child and thinks she has to take care of me, plus Prissy.  If Prissy needs shots or any reason she has to go to the Vet, Karin takes her so I don't have to get out of the house.  She stays about two hours when she comes to groom Prissy.

I should be posting about Penn. election law sometime this evening.

https://www.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/LI/LI/CT/HTM/25/25.HTM