Author Topic: More deaths, no benefit from malaria drug in VA virus study  (Read 1671 times)

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Online Hoodat

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More deaths, no benefit from malaria drug in VA virus study
« on: April 21, 2020, 08:59:54 pm »
More deaths, no benefit from malaria drug in VA virus study

AP   |   21 Apr 2020


A malaria drug widely touted by President Donald Trump for treating the new coronavirus showed no benefit in a large analysis of its use in U.S. veterans hospitals. There were more deaths among those given hydroxychloroquine versus standard care, researchers reported.

The nationwide study was not a rigorous experiment. But with 368 patients, it’s the largest look so far of hydroxychloroquine with or without the antibiotic azithromycin for COVID-19, which has killed more than 171,000 people as of Tuesday.

The was posted on an online site for researchers and has been submitted to the New England Journal of Medicine, but has not been reviewed by other scientists. Grants from the National Institutes of Health and the University of Virginia paid for the work.

Researchers analyzed medical records of 368 male veterans hospitalized with confirmed coronavirus infection at Veterans Health Administration medical centers who died or were discharged by April 11.

About 28% who were given hydroxychloroquine plus usual care died, versus 11% of those getting routine care alone. About 22% of those getting the drug plus azithromycin died too, but the difference between that group and usual care was not considered large enough to rule out other factors that could have affected survival.

Hydroxychloroquine made no difference in the need for a breathing machine, either.

https://www.breitbart.com/news/more-deaths-no-benefit-from-malaria-drug-in-va-virus-study/



They didn't give the patients zinc sulfate.  They purposely omitted the zinc sulfate just so they could discredit Trump.  Patients ended up dying in this bogus study because of it.  There is a special place in hell reserved for people like this.
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Offline libertybele

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Re: More deaths, no benefit from malaria drug in VA virus study
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2020, 09:06:03 pm »
Lots of things right now are being done to discredit Trump.  Regardless of this study, there are cases where hydroxychloronique and the zpack combo have been saving lives - not sure about the regiment of zinc included with those but nonetheless ... reports have stated that the combo reduces symptoms. There was never a claim that it cures. 

I do know that heart patients cannot take the combo -- so perhaps it was given to heart patients in a last ditch effort to save lives?

Anymore,  even "hell" is beginning to look like it's a place too good for some of the DEMS and lying liberal media!
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Online Hoodat

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Re: More deaths, no benefit from malaria drug in VA virus study
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2020, 09:13:50 pm »
Regardless of this study, there are cases where hydroxychloronique and the zpack combo have been saving lives - not sure about the regiment of zinc included with those but nonetheless ... reports have stated that the combo reduces symptoms.

The original trial in France included zinc.  The hydroxychloroquine provides a vehicle for introducing the zinc inside the cell.  It is the zinc that kills the virus.  The z-pack only prevents a secondary bacterial infection from taking hold.  It does nothing to fight off the coronavirus.

Eliminating zinc from the study effectively dismisses the reason for using hydroxychloroquine to begin with.  These people knew that.  They had the results of the French trial.  They knew that zinc was the crucial part.  But they omitted it just so they could discredit Trump (who failed to mention zinc in his initial tweet).
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Offline libertybele

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Re: More deaths, no benefit from malaria drug in VA virus study
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2020, 09:20:47 pm »
The original trial in France included zinc.  The hydroxychloroquine provides a vehicle for introducing the zinc inside the cell.  It is the zinc that kills the virus.  The z-pack only prevents a secondary bacterial infection from taking hold.  It does nothing to fight off the coronavirus.

Eliminating zinc from the study effectively dismisses the reason for using hydroxychloroquine to begin with.  These people knew that.  They had the results of the French trial.  They knew that zinc was the crucial part.  But they omitted it just so they could discredit Trump (who failed to mention zinc in his initial tweet).

Read briefly several different articles on the affect of zinc on COVID-19, none would confirm the benefit because of lack of data, but reports do show that zinc has a definite impact on other coronaviruses and the common cold. 

I'd take my chances.  And yes, you are absolutely correct ... omitting zinc from the treatment in this study was wrong.  Destroying lives to make a political point ... despicable, disgraceful and pure evil.

https://www.uchealth.org/today/zinc-could-help-diminish-extent-of-covid-19/

https://www.cnet.com/news/zinc-supplements-wont-protect-you-from-the-coronavirus/
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Online Hoodat

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Re: More deaths, no benefit from malaria drug in VA virus study
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2020, 09:27:41 pm »
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: More deaths, no benefit from malaria drug in VA virus study
« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2020, 09:31:17 pm »
The original trial in France included zinc.  The hydroxychloroquine provides a vehicle for introducing the zinc inside the cell.  It is the zinc that kills the virus.  The z-pack only prevents a secondary bacterial infection from taking hold.  It does nothing to fight off the coronavirus.

Eliminating zinc from the study effectively dismisses the reason for using hydroxychloroquine to begin with.  These people knew that.  They had the results of the French trial.  They knew that zinc was the crucial part.  But they omitted it just so they could discredit Trump (who failed to mention zinc in his initial tweet).

QFT ... all of it.  happy77

Online Smokin Joe

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Re: More deaths, no benefit from malaria drug in VA virus study
« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2020, 10:04:08 pm »
Lots of things right now are being done to discredit Trump.  Regardless of this study, there are cases where hydroxychloronique and the zpack combo have been saving lives - not sure about the regiment of zinc included with those but nonetheless ... reports have stated that the combo reduces symptoms. There was never a claim that it cures. 

I do know that heart patients cannot take the combo -- so perhaps it was given to heart patients in a last ditch effort to save lives?

Anymore,  even "hell" is beginning to look like it's a place too good for some of the DEMS and lying liberal media!
The zinc stops viral replication. Hydroxychloroquine lets the zinc in the cell. The Z-pack slightly reduces the immune (cytokine) response, has an idiopathic antiviral effect, and wards off bacterial infection.

But giving the Hydroxychloroquine and Zithromax without the zinc is like sending landing craft to the beach empty.

And they did that to Vets.

That's just a bleep obscenity.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2020, 10:05:12 pm by Smokin Joe »
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Offline jafo2010

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Re: More deaths, no benefit from malaria drug in VA virus study
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2020, 12:34:22 am »
Quote
Hoodat...
They didn't give the patients zinc sulfate.  They purposely omitted the zinc sulfate just so they could discredit Trump.  Patients ended up dying in this bogus study because of it.  There is a special place in hell reserved for people like this.

Anyone trusting their life to AMA physicians is an utter fool.  FOOL!!!! FOOL!!!  FOOL!!!

They are not to be trusted.  This is the kind of EXPERIMENTATION  they practice, and the patients they kill are buried and cannot file an objection.  *sshats like Dr Fauci are just the kind of physicians that exist across our country.  Your life is in peril, your financial wellbeing is of no concern to these pukes.

TRUMP HAS LISTENED TO THESE HACKS FOR THREE MONTHS TO THE DETRIMENT OF THE USA!!!    TRAGIC!!!

BEWARE is the key word of the day of all AMA physicians that have no sense of morality when dealing with patients.  They are the 4TH LEADING CAUSE OF DEATH IN AMERICA,  DO NOT FORGET THAT AT THE PERIL OF YOUR LIFE!

BTW, my wife a CDC physician, has a friend in New York that has treated hundreds of patients in severe condition with Hydroxy and the rest of the therapy, without losing a single patient.  So, the doctors at the VA hospital should have their medical licenses revoked!!!  No wonder the veterans are disgusted with these Dr Frankensteins!!!
« Last Edit: April 22, 2020, 01:00:27 am by jafo2010 »

Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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Re: More deaths, no benefit from malaria drug in VA virus study
« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2020, 12:53:25 am »
Thank goodness our President has stock piled over 30 million doses.  Maybe more since he bragged about it over a week ago.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2020, 12:54:34 am by Once-Ler »

Offline sneakypete

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Re: More deaths, no benefit from malaria drug in VA virus study
« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2020, 01:00:16 am »
Lots of things right now are being done to discredit Trump.  Regardless of this study, there are cases where hydroxychloronique and the zpack combo have been saving lives - not sure about the regiment of zinc included with those but nonetheless ... reports have stated that the combo reduces symptoms. There was never a claim that it cures. 

I do know that heart patients cannot take the combo -- so perhaps it was given to heart patients in a last ditch effort to save lives?

Anymore,  even "hell" is beginning to look like it's a place too good for some of the DEMS and lying liberal media!

@libertybele

As someone who has spent WAAAAY too much time visiting VA hospitals,I can tell you their "customer base" isn't typical of hosptials. People in their 50's are almost considered to be children. It's "Geezer Central",and even considering that,many of the geezers have health issues the typical hospital never sees,and may not have even heard of.

Not to mention a large portion of the patients have mental problems,and have been self-medicating for years,or never received any treatment at all for it,with few patients in the middle.

In other words,not a good patient base for the typical American to be compared to when it comes to treatment.
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Offline mountaineer

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Re: More deaths, no benefit from malaria drug in VA virus study
« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2020, 01:23:19 pm »
Buck Sexton @BuckSexton

Here’s what an infectious disease doctor tied to a major nyc hospital told me about this study:
“This is probably the worst of study designs: retrospective analysis, with no stated methods as to how patients were assigned one of three treatment arms.”

In addition, the three groups were not entirely comparable, and all were sick enough to be hospitalized.
A key indicator of prognosis, fibrin degradation products, was not even measured.

“It may be proven true in subsequent, prospective trials, we should understand proponents of the use of hydroxychloroquine in various combinations with other drugs all suggest that the drug is most effective when used early, well before patients "qualify" for hospitalization.”

“This is similar to the way we use oseltamivir or baloxavir for influenza: unless started within 72 hours of onset of viral symptoms, these effective, proven, and licensed drugs have little or no demonstrable effect on the course of influenza.”

“However, we still routinely will use them in advanced, late (>72 hours) influenza patients who are sick enough to be admitted to he hospital”

So basically, this study does not refute previous positive studies, and more clinical trials are necessary-
We can still be hopeful

7:07 PM · Apr 22, 2020·
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: More deaths, no benefit from malaria drug in VA virus study
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2020, 01:27:02 pm »
It is no longer a disease. It is now a political tool.
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: More deaths, no benefit from malaria drug in VA virus study
« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2020, 03:19:15 pm »
It is no longer a disease. It is now a political tool.

When was it not?
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
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Offline sneakypete

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Offline PeteS in CA

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Re: More deaths, no benefit from malaria drug in VA virus study
« Reply #14 on: April 23, 2020, 03:35:26 pm »
https://pjmedia.com/trending/five-problems-with-the-study-that-claims-more-deaths-from-treating-coronavirus-with-hydroxychloroquine/

Five Problems With the Study That Claims 'More Deaths' From Treating Coronavirus With Hydroxychloroquine
BY MATT MARGOLIS APRIL 22, 2020
Quote
But, if you actually read through the reporting, even read through the study itself, it becomes clear that the media, which was quick to downplay or ignore earlier studies showing the drug worked, were too quick to hype this study's findings. Here are five problems with the study that should give you pause before you turn your back on hydroxychloroquine.

5. It was a small, non-peer-reviewed study, not a clinical trial
...
4. The patients were not representative of the entire population

By now there are a number of things we've learned about the coronavirus: It has a higher fatality rate with males, older people are more likely to be affected by it, most who die from it had other illnesses. The patients whose records were analyzed for this study were all male. The patients' ages ranged from 59 to 75, with a median age of 70 (... treated with hydroxychloroquine), 68 (... hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin), and 69 (... standard treatment alone). The patients were also disproportionately black. According to the census, 13.4 percent of United States population is black, but in the study, 68% (HC), 59% (HC+AZ),  and 65% (No HC) of the patients were black. There is a known racial disparity in how the coronavirus impacts those who contract it that isn't fully understood yet.
...
3. The most severe cases disproportionately received the drug

The study itself acknowledges that "hydroxychloroquine, with or without azithromycin, was more likely to be prescribed to patients with more severe disease." In such a small study that isn't representative of the entire population, this would likely impact the results. ...

2. Other studies and anecdotal reports suggest it helps
...
1. The study concluded that controlled trials are still needed

Gotcha-Trump Fail!
If, as anti-Covid-vaxxers claim, https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2021/robert-f-kennedy-jr-said-the-covid-19-vaccine-is-the-deadliest-vaccine-ever-made-thats-not-true/ , https://gospelnewsnetwork.org/2021/11/23/covid-shots-are-the-deadliest-vaccines-in-medical-history/ , The Vaccine is deadly, where in the US have Pfizer and Moderna hidden the millions of bodies of those who died of "vaccine injury"? Is reality a Big Pharma Shill?

Millions now living should have died. Anti-Covid-Vaxxer ghouls hardest hit.

Online Smokin Joe

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Re: More deaths, no benefit from malaria drug in VA virus study
« Reply #15 on: April 23, 2020, 05:59:09 pm »
https://pjmedia.com/trending/five-problems-with-the-study-that-claims-more-deaths-from-treating-coronavirus-with-hydroxychloroquine/

Five Problems With the Study That Claims 'More Deaths' From Treating Coronavirus With Hydroxychloroquine
BY MATT MARGOLIS APRIL 22, 2020
Gotcha-Trump Fail!
Every time i read about this study, i see something missing.
Whether that is missing because the media are (all?) too lazy to type "and Zinc" or "and Zinc Sulfate" in the pharmacology or whether the Zinc supplements WERE NOT GIVEN, I don't know.

Often one of the most aggravating things about journalism is what simply isn't said.
I would wager that commonly is a result of the writers having little or no understanding of the subject.

SO, just for fun, the pharmacology and the why:
Basically, the SARS-CoV-2 virus attacks the cell by invading it, looting it of cell material to build more viruses, which escape to do more damage, killing the cell. The virus attaches to a specific protein and that is how it gets into the cell, past the membrane that surrounds the cell. In this case, the cell is one in the lungs that allows Oxygen into and Carbon Dioxide out of the bloodstream, essential for life. There are a lot of these cells, but if too many are killed, we can't breathe and we die. 
What will stop the virus from replicating is zinc, but it has to be in the cell to do so.
If the Zinc is outside the cell, it can't stop the virus from trashing the inside of the cell and making more viruses.
The Zinc needs a way in.
Hydroxychloroquine opens corridors through the normally highly selective membranes that surround the cell and lets the zinc in. Then the Zinc can interfere with the virus trying to make more viruses, keep it from trashing the cell, the cell lives, the virus doesn't--but the zinc has to be there first.
Azithromycin helps defeat the virus' replication. Though the process isn't quite understood, it has been seen before. It also has two other effects. First, as an antibiotic, it helps ward off any infection that might come from bacteria (something antibiotics are generally good at, even though by themselves they usually are not effective against viruses.)
The other effect is that Azithromycin (known as a Z-pack) tends to have a mild effect of reducing the body's immune response. (also noted before SARS-CoV-2 came along).
Why is that important? In cases where the disease (COVID-19, caused by the virus SARS-CoV-2) is well advanced, there are a lot of dead cells laying around in the lungs. The human body likes tidy tissues, and responds to dead cells laying around and to microbes invading by getting the immune system cells going, fighting what it can, producing mucous to wash away the mess, which isn't a bad thing unless the damage already done is just too great. Then that response all at once can do more damage, even enough to be fatal. Actually slowing that response down a little can be beneficial to the patient.

So, that's why ALL THREE, the hydroxychloroquine (to let the zinc into the cell to stop the virus), the Zinc Sulfate (to provide the zinc to stop the virus from killing the cell), and the Azithromycin (to slow the virus, the immune response, and to keep the bacteria out of the fight), are important.

Not once in mention of this study have I seen any mention that any zinc supplements were used.

That would be like fighting D-Day with empty landing craft.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2020, 06:00:48 pm by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
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C S Lewis

Offline skeeter

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Re: More deaths, no benefit from malaria drug in VA virus study
« Reply #16 on: April 23, 2020, 06:17:06 pm »
It is no longer a disease. It is now a political tool.

And the rat media are relentless in using it.

BTW according to a recent Stanford study, true infection rates reflect a mortality of something closer to .1%. At least in the Santa Clara Valley.

So, it's looking like those who claimed this whole 'pandemic' was no worse than the average flu on a bad year were right and we've all been clowned, big time.

« Last Edit: April 23, 2020, 06:22:32 pm by skeeter »

Offline jafo2010

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Re: More deaths, no benefit from malaria drug in VA virus study
« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2020, 04:39:01 am »
That is why Trump condescending Brian Kemp makes no sense.  Gov. Kemp is making cautious decisions yet in the framework of restoring normal living.  Trump, is turning into a Romney Rat with his f*&^ing negative comments on Gov Kemp's actions.

Trump is attempting to do what exactly with these negative comments?  Insulate himself from any negative outcome?  How much more cowardly could he be?  First he follows Obama's Playbook of Lead from Behind, and now condemning someone brave and deliberate of mind to restore normal living in his state.  I just do not care for his cowardly weak minded bullsh*t!!!

I applaud Gov Kemp for having the determination to lead his state, my state, from this debacle created largely by the media with the federal government in lock step behind the nonsense.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2020, 04:41:39 am by jafo2010 »

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Re: More deaths, no benefit from malaria drug in VA virus study
« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2020, 01:16:15 pm »
Oh my gosh!  Trump said something that pisses somebody off!  Hold the presses.......

This might cost him the Election.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
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Online Hoodat

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Re: More deaths, no benefit from malaria drug in VA virus study
« Reply #19 on: April 24, 2020, 01:51:58 pm »
Every time i read about this study, i see something missing.
Whether that is missing because the media are (all?) too lazy to type "and Zinc" or "and Zinc Sulfate" in the pharmacology or whether the Zinc supplements WERE NOT GIVEN, I don't know.

@Smokin Joe

Zinc sulfate was purposely omitted from the study  People died as a result of it.  They took Trump at his exact word (as if Trump was a medical expert) and only used the medications he mentioned instead of looking at the actual trial.  The purpose of the exercise was to make Trump look bad instead of finding a successful treatment for people in danger of dying.  And on top of that, they did it to military veterans.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

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Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: More deaths, no benefit from malaria drug in VA virus study
« Reply #20 on: April 24, 2020, 02:13:03 pm »
@Smokin Joe

Zinc sulfate was purposely omitted from the study  People died as a result of it.  They took Trump at his exact word (as if Trump was a medical expert) and only used the medications he mentioned instead of looking at the actual trial.  The purpose of the exercise was to make Trump look bad instead of finding a successful treatment for people in danger of dying.  And on top of that, they did it to military veterans.

Bottom line:  They deliberately let people die, just to score political points.  That's bleeped up.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: More deaths, no benefit from malaria drug in VA virus study
« Reply #21 on: April 24, 2020, 02:44:05 pm »
@Smokin Joe

Zinc sulfate was purposely omitted from the study  People died as a result of it.  They took Trump at his exact word (as if Trump was a medical expert) and only used the medications he mentioned instead of looking at the actual trial.  The purpose of the exercise was to make Trump look bad instead of finding a successful treatment for people in danger of dying.  And on top of that, they did it to military veterans.

@Hoodat

MORE win/win for the goobermint! Each vet that dies is one less compensation check the government has to pay each month.

And people are saying they don't know how to balance a budget............
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Online Hoodat

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If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

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Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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Re: More deaths, no benefit from malaria drug in VA virus study
« Reply #23 on: April 24, 2020, 03:23:27 pm »
So, that's why ALL THREE, the hydroxychloroquine (to let the zinc into the cell to stop the virus), the Zinc Sulfate (to provide the zinc to stop the virus from killing the cell), and the Azithromycin (to slow the virus, the immune response, and to keep the bacteria out of the fight), are important.

At least this is what one doctor in NY is telling us.  I was agreeing with a fellow Briefer last night that immediacy and panic helped sell $2.8T in 4 recent laws.  The Chinese and French said hydroxychloroquine might be useful against COVID-19 so it makes sense to test it.  What doesn't make sense is for all medical trials to only consist of hydroxychloroquine, Zinc Sulfate, Azithromycin based on the unsubstantiated claims of one doctor and the President's hunch about this stuff, even if his brother was a doctor.

If my doctor came to me and said we want to try a combination of drugs that we haven't tested individually and hope something works, I'd get a new doctor and tell him I am not panicked by immediacy.

Offline truth_seeker

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Re: More deaths, no benefit from malaria drug in VA virus study
« Reply #24 on: April 24, 2020, 03:39:26 pm »
It is no longer a disease. It is now a political tool.

I surely is that.
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln