Author Topic: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion  (Read 79640 times)

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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2150 on: March 17, 2020, 08:22:58 pm »
How about the VIRUS Smallpox?? And all those quarantined because they, or family members had it, and all those lives SAVED because of it??
How about the vaccine?

That's what stopped it, not the quarantines. Stop the vaccine, and the virus will be back.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

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Online DCPatriot

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2151 on: March 17, 2020, 08:23:18 pm »
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"Journalism is about covering the news.  With a pillow.  Until it stops moving."    - David Burge (Iowahawk)

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Offline musiclady

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2152 on: March 17, 2020, 08:26:49 pm »
Found out some good things about Ohio hospitals (some of the best in the world) at today’s official update today.

They are working with nursing homes and hotels to act as temporary hospital wings in case of overflow.  Those spaces will act as wards for non- infectious patients to free up space for more critical patients.

Also there are PPEs in reserve left over from H1N1and Ebola scares that never materialized as this one has.

My husband explained to me how very prepared Ohio hospitals are, not because of federal mandates, but because of the Joint Commission within Ohio, for significant viral emergencies.

The federal government is not issuing further supplies, but if the curve is successfully flattened, Ohioans will be okay.

Stay home. Limit contact with others. Keep local businesses afloat by buying supplies locally whenever possible.

Everything is gonna be alright.  :patriot:
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I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

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Offline musiclady

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2153 on: March 17, 2020, 08:35:37 pm »
How about the vaccine?

That's what stopped it, not the quarantines. Stop the vaccine, and the virus will be back.

Are you saying the quarantines didn’t keep others safe?  Are you saying they weren’t necessary?

Because before there was a vaccine, it was the only thing keeping it from spreading.

My comment was in response to the idea that you can’t stop a virus.

That a virus has never been stopped. So basically, don’t try to slow it down.

To that I say poppycock.  Do everything you can to slow down this new virus and save lives until there is a vaccine.

And that includes limiting social contact and large gatherings, quarantines, and even among conservatives, a little self control for the well-being of others.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2020, 08:36:48 pm by musiclady »
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Online catfish1957

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2154 on: March 17, 2020, 08:35:52 pm »
How about the vaccine?

That's what stopped it, not the quarantines. Stop the vaccine, and the virus will be back.


Uhhh.....   General vaccination of population against Smallpox stopped in 1972.

The virus is basically eradicated, with ecxception of a couple of lab samples, (1 @CDC)
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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2155 on: March 17, 2020, 08:41:01 pm »
Are you saying the quarantines didn’t keep others safe?  Are you saying they weren’t necessary?

Because before there was a vaccine, it was the only thing keeping it from spreading.

My comment was in response to the idea that you can’t stop a virus.

That a virus has never been stopped. So basically, don’t try to slow it down.

To that I say poppycock.  Do everything you can to slow down this new virus and save lives until there is a vaccine.

And that includes limiting social contact and large gatherings, quarantines, and even among conservatives, a little self control for the well-being of others.

I'm in the "All the Above" group on this.  Slow the spread of the virus as much as we can, while the medicos get the treatments and vaccines online as soon as they can.  It's a team effort.  I don't have to make the case the disease is deadly or not deadly, it's irrelevant.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2020, 08:42:07 pm by Cyber Liberty »
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Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2156 on: March 17, 2020, 08:51:55 pm »
Yep!  Let's keep on allowing the destruction of our economy over what amounts to very little!


Are you talking about climate change now?  Isn't that their line?
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Offline libertybele

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2157 on: March 17, 2020, 08:52:59 pm »
The vaccine won't be ready for another year to 18 months at the earliest.  Taking shortcuts and hoping for the best is not an option; that will cause more harm them good.

So ... social distancing for the elderly and herd immunity are the options that we have now.  The vaccine isn't going to be here any time soon.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/17/when-will-a-coronavirus-vaccine-be-ready
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2158 on: March 17, 2020, 08:54:41 pm »
Countries individual trajectories will track in relation to the sophistication of their medical facilities. Another reason I think the US will have relatively little trouble with this virus.

Important point @skeeter    :thumbsup:

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2159 on: March 17, 2020, 09:05:06 pm »
Quarantines obviously do work. Few virus just blow in the wind... I don't follow the denial of basic knowldege.

I can understand an argument of where to draw the line between lives and cost. But to just call this the flu and no big deal and that it just needs to run it course naturally is something else.
I believe that the comparisons to the flu were made to try to put the death toll in perspective, not to say this is the flu, a variety of flu, or even will behave necessarily the same way.

But perspective has left the building and was trampled on the street in the panic outside.

Of course, this is not the flu. It is in a different group of viruses (Coronaviruses) which ranges in lethality from MERS and SARS to the common cold. It falls somewhere in between, exactly where, we don't really know.
We don't really know because this is a novel virus, something new.

We do know it tends to be most dangerous for people over 60, and especially those over 60 with pre-existing pulmonary, coronary, or metabolic diseases and those with compromised immune systems are believed to be at higher risk.
How many of those who have died in the US had one of those preexisting conditions.
Comparing what is happening in Italy and using it to project what is happening here is useless. Apples to Oranges.
Unless, of course, the purpose is to cause panic.

Panic is something that can be herded, like a stampede, it is destructive of anything in its way, without thought, and ultimately can be grossly self destructive, just like the buffalo jump, the lemming migration, and other examples of creatures running headlong to their demise, humans apparently will do the same thing.

When enough of the economy has broken down, who will deliver the goods to your town that it needs to survive? If people (as people often do) become so envious of, or desperate to  have what you have and they don't (a recurring theme in media) will they recall having seen iterations of The Purge and decide to come for all you have, even if you don't have it?

What will the body count be then?

See, I can go all hyperbolic, too.

But mobs and riots are a fact of human existence.
Fear of starvation and the cries of a hungry child will overcome fear of maybe catching a disease at some point, that might make you sick. What then?

Back up, America. Back off. Take the wide view in, and get the job done.
This panic will kill more people (if we let it) than the disease itself.

But while you are sitting behind those barred doors, noshing on freeze dried apricots, I heartily recommend reading Edgar Allen Poe's The Masque of the Red Death for entertainment. At least the highway accident toll may drop....
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline jmyrlefuller

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2160 on: March 17, 2020, 09:09:57 pm »
The vaccine won't be ready for another year to 18 months at the earliest.  Taking shortcuts and hoping for the best is not an option; that will cause more harm them good.

So ... social distancing for the elderly and herd immunity are the options that we have now.  The vaccine isn't going to be here any time soon.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/17/when-will-a-coronavirus-vaccine-be-ready
I'm not counting on a vaccine. By the time it is finished, the outbreak will likely have run its course.

We need treatments that shorten the duration of an infection. Right now our government is acting like there is no treatment. We need to expedite the existing treatments that have shown they can fight this virus.
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Offline musiclady

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2161 on: March 17, 2020, 09:11:02 pm »
I'm in the "All the Above" group on this.  Slow the spread of the virus as much as we can, while the medicos get the treatments and vaccines online as soon as they can.  It's a team effort.  I don't have to make the case the disease is deadly or not deadly, it's irrelevant.

You make an excellent point here.

Arguing about mortality rates is not really relevant discussion.

It’s a disease that is doing great harm, spreading extremely rapidly, and we, as a people, need to do what’s necessary to slow things down.

If that means a little inconvenience, so be it.

Our parents lived through a depression and a world war.

We can live through staying at home for a few weeks to help stop this thing.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline DB

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2162 on: March 17, 2020, 09:26:42 pm »
I believe that the comparisons to the flu were made to try to put the death toll in perspective, not to say this is the flu, a variety of flu, or even will behave necessarily the same way.

But perspective has left the building and was trampled on the street in the panic outside.

Of course, this is not the flu. It is in a different group of viruses (Coronaviruses) which ranges in lethality from MERS and SARS to the common cold. It falls somewhere in between, exactly where, we don't really know.
We don't really know because this is a novel virus, something new.

We do know it tends to be most dangerous for people over 60, and especially those over 60 with pre-existing pulmonary, coronary, or metabolic diseases and those with compromised immune systems are believed to be at higher risk.
How many of those who have died in the US had one of those preexisting conditions.
Comparing what is happening in Italy and using it to project what is happening here is useless. Apples to Oranges.
Unless, of course, the purpose is to cause panic.

Panic is something that can be herded, like a stampede, it is destructive of anything in its way, without thought, and ultimately can be grossly self destructive, just like the buffalo jump, the lemming migration, and other examples of creatures running headlong to their demise, humans apparently will do the same thing.

When enough of the economy has broken down, who will deliver the goods to your town that it needs to survive? If people (as people often do) become so envious of, or desperate to  have what you have and they don't (a recurring theme in media) will they recall having seen iterations of The Purge and decide to come for all you have, even if you don't have it?

What will the body count be then?

See, I can go all hyperbolic, too.

But mobs and riots are a fact of human existence.
Fear of starvation and the cries of a hungry child will overcome fear of maybe catching a disease at some point, that might make you sick. What then?

Back up, America. Back off. Take the wide view in, and get the job done.
This panic will kill more people (if we let it) than the disease itself.

But while you are sitting behind those barred doors, noshing on freeze dried apricots, I heartily recommend reading Edgar Allen Poe's The Masque of the Red Death for entertainment. At least the highway accident toll may drop....

I expect both the panic and the virus will burn themselves out over the next few weeks - but who really knows. There are no easy answers. One day at a time.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2163 on: March 17, 2020, 09:30:21 pm »
I expect both the panic and the virus will burn themselves out over the next few weeks - but who really knows. There are no easy answers. One day at a time.
I place my faith in The Almighty. This (both panic and the disease) will run their respective courses. But with the Saudis flooding oil markets, the oil industry likely won't be able to jump start the economy this time.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline XenaLee

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2164 on: March 17, 2020, 09:34:33 pm »
I place my faith in The Almighty. This (both panic and the disease) will run their respective courses. But with the Saudis flooding oil markets, the oil industry likely won't be able to jump start the economy this time.

Odd.... that the Saudis' action on oil concides with the CV outbreak.   Almost like a double-whammy was orchestrated, planned and carried out.    888mouth
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Offline jmyrlefuller

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2165 on: March 17, 2020, 09:43:00 pm »
I expect both the panic and the virus will burn themselves out over the next few weeks - but who really knows. There are no easy answers. One day at a time.
I'm hoping so.

Still no known cases in the county where I live, but down in NYC I'm seeing the signs of raging out of control. Of course, when we're in New York, that means what happens down there gets forced upon us up here.

I'm hoping the rapid rise in positive cases is just an example of 1) the lag in testing and 2) people who have come back from overseas or more heavily infected regions who have quarantined themselves. I'm hoping and praying by next week we see signs of leveling out. If I start seeing signs of "community spread" getting nearer, I'll probably get really discouraged.

Truth be told, I just want to get back to normal life. This bothers me... and it doesn't even really directly affect me yet, that's the worst part!
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Offline Applewood

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2166 on: March 17, 2020, 09:46:03 pm »
@Applewood if you are a fan of the Food Network, Alton Brown has a very good video on how to wash hands. It’s like watching an episode of “Good Eats”

@Gefn

I'll have to look for that video online -- thanks. 

Offline libertybele

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2167 on: March 17, 2020, 09:48:40 pm »
You make an excellent point here.

Arguing about mortality rates is not really relevant discussion.

It’s a disease that is doing great harm, spreading extremely rapidly, and we, as a people, need to do what’s necessary to slow things down.

If that means a little inconvenience, so be it.

Our parents lived through a depression and a world war.

We can live through staying at home for a few weeks to help stop this thing.

Only problem is, I sat and watched the newscast for about 15 minutes.  Spring break seems to be in full swing at our local beach -- social distancing was supposed to be practiced -- groups of 10 or less .... well it worked well in the morning and by afternoon the kids got closer and closer together.  Then they interviewed the mayor, she said, well, if it comes down to a mandate we'll close the beaches, but until then they will remain open. Spring breakers come from all over the country to our beaches in FL. Meanwhile we have 25 new cases today.

Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline DB

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2168 on: March 17, 2020, 09:49:00 pm »
I'm hoping so.

Still no known cases in the county where I live, but down in NYC I'm seeing the signs of raging out of control. Of course, when we're in New York, that means what happens down there gets forced upon us up here.

I'm hoping the rapid rise in positive cases is just an example of 1) the lag in testing and 2) people who have come back from overseas or more heavily infected regions who have quarantined themselves. I'm hoping and praying by next week we see signs of leveling out. If I start seeing signs of "community spread" getting nearer, I'll probably get really discouraged.

Truth be told, I just want to get back to normal life. This bothers me... and it doesn't even really directly affect me yet, that's the worst part!

A large number of positive cases that had few serious symptoms would be a great thing. It would mean it is widely spread and didn't do much damage.

It is wait and see.

Offline EdinVA

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2169 on: March 17, 2020, 09:53:06 pm »
I'm hoping so.

Still no known cases in the county where I live, but down in NYC I'm seeing the signs of raging out of control. Of course, when we're in New York, that means what happens down there gets forced upon us up here.

I'm hoping the rapid rise in positive cases is just an example of 1) the lag in testing and 2) people who have come back from overseas or more heavily infected regions who have quarantined themselves. I'm hoping and praying by next week we see signs of leveling out. If I start seeing signs of "community spread" getting nearer, I'll probably get really discouraged.

Truth be told, I just want to get back to normal life. This bothers me... and it doesn't even really directly affect me yet, that's the worst part!
I would think we should see some waning in the growth of new cases next week.  Maybe even a decline..

Offline libertybele

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2170 on: March 17, 2020, 09:58:18 pm »
I'm hoping so.

Still no known cases in the county where I live, but down in NYC I'm seeing the signs of raging out of control. Of course, when we're in New York, that means what happens down there gets forced upon us up here.

I'm hoping the rapid rise in positive cases is just an example of 1) the lag in testing and 2) people who have come back from overseas or more heavily infected regions who have quarantined themselves. I'm hoping and praying by next week we see signs of leveling out. If I start seeing signs of "community spread" getting nearer, I'll probably get really discouraged.

Truth be told, I just want to get back to normal life. This bothers me... and it doesn't even really directly affect me yet, that's the worst part!

Yes, I'd love to go to the store without fear of getting sick and dying, our library is shut down, the community pool is closed, the water park is closed, spring training is closed, church is risky ... so...I feel like a hermit. 

We're not going to get back to any type of normalcy for a couple of months and I think that's being conservative unfortunately.

This feeling seems to be worse than 9-11 for me ... we were able to move about "freely" afterwards with some precautions in place -- this virus has taken some of those freedoms away for us who are elder and health compromised. 

I keep telling myself this too shall pass.  We'll get through this!!
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Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline Gefn

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2171 on: March 17, 2020, 10:13:21 pm »
Just got an alert from CNN
West Virginia has first case.

It’s in all 50 states now.
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Offline mountaineer

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2172 on: March 17, 2020, 10:14:22 pm »
Darn, W.Va. finally got its first confirmed case.  :crying:
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Offline libertybele

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2173 on: March 17, 2020, 10:17:21 pm »
Darn, W.Va. finally got its first confirmed case.  :crying:

Is it someone who traveled outside the U.S. or someone visiting W. VA ?
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline musiclady

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2174 on: March 17, 2020, 10:19:50 pm »
Darn, W.Va. finally got its first confirmed case.  :crying:

Oh! Sorry!!

I saw the baseball meme on FB about how WVa is fighting off the virus compared to other states, and I thought it was hilarious!
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.