Author Topic: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion  (Read 121725 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Lando Lincoln

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16,329
  • Gender: Male
Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2050 on: March 17, 2020, 11:48:39 am »
OK! Try this one on! We are ALL going to die! Every last one of us and there is not one thing we can do to prevent it!

Memento Mori
There are some among us who live in rooms of experience we can never enter.
John Steinbeck

Online Cyber Liberty

  • Coffee! Donuts! Kittens!
  • Administrator
  • ******
  • Posts: 62,386
  • Gender: Male
  • 🌵🌵🌵
Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2051 on: March 17, 2020, 11:48:50 am »
OK! Try this one on! We are ALL going to die! Every last one of us and there is not one thing we can do to prevent it!

For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline TomSea

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,489
  • Gender: Male
  • All deserve a trial if accused
Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2052 on: March 17, 2020, 11:50:38 am »
Continued unabated, 1 out of every 2 could be infected per an actuarial study computed, the computation was limited by the fact, that it changes from Winter to Spring to Summer.  Yeah, just ignore it. Sharp.

Offline Hoodat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 33,735
Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2053 on: March 17, 2020, 11:51:02 am »
Official data showed the number of fatalities shooting up by 368 to 1,809 — more than half of all the cases recorded outside China....



Instead of computing a linear equation midway through the process, you should measure the current slope (i.e. derivative) and note the change of that.  China's curve is leveling out (i.e. the slope is getting smaller) which indicated the disease spread is slowing down considerably.  Expect the same trend in Italy, the US, etc.  China got a head start, so their curve is more representative of the disease path, while Italy, the US, etc. have data sets that are incomplete.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline musiclady

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,811
Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2054 on: March 17, 2020, 11:51:23 am »
What?

We're all going to die. Period. So just let nature run its course unabated then is what your saying... Sucks to be you if you die because others couldn't be bothered.


All those hospitals need to close down and Docs and nurses resign and medical research halt.

No point for any of it.  *****rollingeyes*****
« Last Edit: March 17, 2020, 11:52:31 am by musiclady »
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline TomSea

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,489
  • Gender: Male
  • All deserve a trial if accused
Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2055 on: March 17, 2020, 11:52:20 am »
Quote
OK! Try this one on! We are ALL going to die! Every last one of us and there is not one thing we can do to prevent it!

Wow, if I lived during the days of the Bubonic (Black) plague. Outstanding observation.

Online Cyber Liberty

  • Coffee! Donuts! Kittens!
  • Administrator
  • ******
  • Posts: 62,386
  • Gender: Male
  • 🌵🌵🌵
Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2056 on: March 17, 2020, 11:52:33 am »
When Fauci speaks I'm reminded of this character from the original Independence Day .... 

Perhaps it's time to return Fauci to the back room ... without WIFI.  :laugh:

I loved the Brent Spiner character in Independence Day!  "They don't let us out much."  "Uh, yeah, I can see that."

Fauci reminds me of that line from Donald Rumsfeld..."We know what we know, and we don't know what we don't know."  Something like that, going from memory.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline thackney

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7,501
  • Gender: Male
Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2057 on: March 17, 2020, 11:53:30 am »
Again, we have to ask ourselves, why now? We had outbreaks before, some far deadlier, with nothing near this response. But, what’s different today?

If the word “November election” didn’t spring immediately to mind, you maybe suffering a touch of white coat syndrome and not not using your head. In politics there are no coincidences. Keep in mind our media is nearly one hundred percent political Left. Without the DNC having to lift a finger, their will is done.

You have to be blind to look at the situation in places like Italy and still believe this is just US politics.

Special Report: 'All is well'. In Italy, triage and lies for virus patients
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-italy-ethics-speci/special-report-all-is-well-in-italy-triage-and-lies-for-virus-patients-idUSKBN2133KG

...Italy’s Association of Anaesthesia, Analgesia, Resuscitation and Intensive Care published new guidelines on March 7. Because it expects a “huge imbalance” between the clinical needs of the population and intensive care resources over the next few weeks, it told those on the front lines: Give priority to those with “greater life expectancy.”...
Life is fragile, handle with prayer

Offline TomSea

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,489
  • Gender: Male
  • All deserve a trial if accused
Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2058 on: March 17, 2020, 11:53:56 am »
Presser's on, first Trump, not Pence.  I think they've done a great job. Bumps in the road? Sure, you will have some of that.

Offline catfish1957

  • The Conservative Carp Rapscallion of Brieferville
  • Political Researcher
  • *****
  • Posts: 25,430
  • Gender: Male
Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2059 on: March 17, 2020, 11:54:45 am »
:yowsa:

Good to see someone go after the culpable party, what a joke, some conspiracy that the US government is doing this to control the population.

You realize that this would constitute default on bond debt that is considered a quasi reference currency?  I hate the Chicoms as much as anyone else, but an action like this would bring the entire world's financial systems crashing down.   Geez!!!!!!
« Last Edit: March 17, 2020, 11:57:02 am by catfish1957 »
I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

Online Bigun

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 34,801
  • Gender: Male
  • Resistance to Tyrants is Obedience to God
    • The FairTax Plan
Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2060 on: March 17, 2020, 11:55:40 am »
IMHO this whole episode has been manufactured in order to:

1. Slow down Trump' momentum toward re-election
2. Get the attempted coup out of the news cycle
3. Test to see just how far the envelope can be pushed WRT stampeding the heard.

And, so far as I can tell, they have been hugely successful at all three. Look for much more of the same.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Gefn

  • "And though she be but little she is fierce"-Shakespeare
  • Cat Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 15,963
  • Gender: Female
  • Quos Deus Vult Perdere Prius Dementat
Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2061 on: March 17, 2020, 11:55:43 am »
I’m so stupid. Yesterday I noticed I was running low in Tylenol. I put some in my Amazon shopping cart and fell asleep. Forgot all about it.

Today the media us saying take Tylenol for a fever. Do not take Advil or Aleve. So I go back to Amazon, and they’re completely out of Tylenol unless you want to pay $60 for a bottle that was $5 yesterday. But Advil and Aleve are plentiful.

I see a repeat of the guy in Tennessee that got 17,000 bottles of hand sanitizer.

You know what? Hang in there. I’m getting sad with this self isolation but it’s all good.
G-d bless America. G-d bless us all                                 

Adopt a puppy or kitty from your local shelter
Or an older dog or cat. They're true love❤️

Offline musiclady

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,811
Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2062 on: March 17, 2020, 11:55:58 am »
Wow, if I lived during the days of the Bubonic (Black) plague. Outstanding observation.

You just need to go back to 1918 and see what happens when no one does anything to stop a plague......... wasn’t that “just the flu??”

Btw, I haven’t thanked you for all the work you’re doing to keep these threads going.

So thanks!
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline thackney

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7,501
  • Gender: Male
Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2063 on: March 17, 2020, 11:56:06 am »
OK! Try this one on! We are ALL going to die! Every last one of us and there is not one thing we can do to prevent it!

True, but most of work to postpone it a reasonable amount of time.  Or have you quit eating?
Life is fragile, handle with prayer

Offline Gefn

  • "And though she be but little she is fierce"-Shakespeare
  • Cat Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 15,963
  • Gender: Female
  • Quos Deus Vult Perdere Prius Dementat
Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2064 on: March 17, 2020, 11:57:45 am »
I loved the Brent Spiner character in Independence Day!  "They don't let us out much."  "Uh, yeah, I can see that."

Fauci reminds me of that line from Donald Rumsfeld..."We know what we know, and we don't know what we don't know."  Something like that, going from memory.

I’ve only seen Brent Spiner as Data. He’s cool and he likes cats.
G-d bless America. G-d bless us all                                 

Adopt a puppy or kitty from your local shelter
Or an older dog or cat. They're true love❤️

Offline thackney

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7,501
  • Gender: Male
Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2065 on: March 17, 2020, 11:57:56 am »
Instead of computing a linear equation midway through the process, you should measure the current slope (i.e. derivative) and note the change of that.  China's curve is leveling out (i.e. the slope is getting smaller) which indicated the disease spread is slowing down considerably.  Expect the same trend in Italy, the US, etc.  China got a head start, so their curve is more representative of the disease path, while Italy, the US, etc. have data sets that are incomplete.

Note those graphs are not starting from the same calendar date, but from the point of 10 reported cases of infection.
Life is fragile, handle with prayer

Offline jpsb

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,545
  • Gender: Male
Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2066 on: March 17, 2020, 11:58:27 am »




We should be going what Japan and S. Korea are doing. We are not Italy yet put appear to be follow the same trajectory.  Not good.  And I do not believe the numbers (or anything) coming out of China.

Online roamer_1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 35,908
Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2067 on: March 17, 2020, 11:58:45 am »
You are citing extremist’s numbers, not factual data about the numbers of people who have died.


No I am not - the predicted numbers of deaths across the course of this, according to worst case, is 200k to 1.7m

But that ain't even it.
They are using confirmed cases, which are cases tested and proved, to come up with the mortality rate. But for every confirmed case there are a myriad of cases that never will be tested or confirmed. Because testing is only done when symptoms present and warrant the testing.

to wit:
Say 100 confirmed cases with 1 death in a given region.
but there are 900 cases that never get logged, because the flu like symptoms were mild enough that the infected never went in to be tested...

The mortality rate is defined as 1 in 100.
But the truth is 1 in 1000.

That is a far cry less virulent and a far more palatable mortality rate... incidentally that rate will likely track with common virus pandemics... Like flu.

Quote
If less people are exposed, less people will become sick.

At the personal level that is true - you have a better chance (still a matter of chance). But not in the aggregate. Again, we have never controlled a virus in the wild. NEVER. It will run it's course.

Quote
And the economy will recover from these short term measures taken.

I take it you are not a small-businessman. When I was operating, I guarantee you, my businesses could not sustain a 60 day shut-down. Certainly not 90 days. ANY shut=down would have been flirting with bankruptcy. And I know I am not alone in that.

Shutting it off will be devastating on many many levels.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2020, 11:59:43 am by roamer_1 »

Online Bigun

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 34,801
  • Gender: Male
  • Resistance to Tyrants is Obedience to God
    • The FairTax Plan
Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2068 on: March 17, 2020, 12:00:45 pm »
True, but most of work to postpone it a reasonable amount of time.  Or have you quit eating?

No I haven't and don't plan to. I also take reasonable precautions to avoid getting sick but I was doing that before anyone ever heard of the Wuhan Coronavirus.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Idiot

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,023
Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2069 on: March 17, 2020, 12:06:25 pm »
Look to Italy for the overwhelming of the medical capability in a modern society.  They do not have the capacity to treat all that need it already.

Italy hit by 368 new coronavirus deaths, hospitals in crisis
https://www.euractiv.com/section/coronavirus/news/italy-hit-by-368-new-coronavirus-deaths-hospitals-in-crisis/

taly on Sunday (15 March) reported a one-day record death toll and leaders warned of a bed and artificial respirator shortage in the European epicentre of the coronavirus pandemic.

Official data showed the number of fatalities shooting up by 368 to 1,809 — more than half of all the cases recorded outside China....


Ok...extrapolate that graph out and tell me how long I'm going to be cooped up in the house.   happy77
« Last Edit: March 17, 2020, 02:07:54 pm by mrpotatohead »

Offline DB

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,445
Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2070 on: March 17, 2020, 12:07:13 pm »
Instead of computing a linear equation midway through the process, you should measure the current slope (i.e. derivative) and note the change of that.  China's curve is leveling out (i.e. the slope is getting smaller) which indicated the disease spread is slowing down considerably.  Expect the same trend in Italy, the US, etc.  China got a head start, so their curve is more representative of the disease path, while Italy, the US, etc. have data sets that are incomplete.

You are ignoring the action taken to level that out - if the numbers are vaguely accurate.

Offline thackney

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7,501
  • Gender: Male
Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2071 on: March 17, 2020, 12:08:36 pm »
Ok...extrapolated that graph out and tell me how long I'm going to be cooped up in the house.   happy77

Way too long.

Our client has started shutting down projects for Mont Belvieu Gas Liquids.  Not a good sign.  I don't see the demand going down for plastics and and others that we are feedstock for providing.
Life is fragile, handle with prayer

Offline musiclady

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,811
Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2072 on: March 17, 2020, 12:11:03 pm »
No I haven't and don't plan to. I also take reasonable precautions to avoid getting sick but I was doing that before anyone ever heard of the Wuhan Coronavirus.

And what about others? No concern?

Nursing homes and hospitals should open their doors back to visitors?

I mean, we ARE all going to die, right??  :shrug:
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Online roamer_1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 35,908
Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2073 on: March 17, 2020, 12:12:44 pm »
What?

We're all going to die. Period. So just let nature run its course unabated then is what your saying... Sucks to be you if you die because others couldn't be bothered.

No. Understand:
We have never controlled a virus in the wild. Never.
We have had flu vaccines for a very long time - they do nothing to impact the overall epidemic, and never have.

Online Cyber Liberty

  • Coffee! Donuts! Kittens!
  • Administrator
  • ******
  • Posts: 62,386
  • Gender: Male
  • 🌵🌵🌵
Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2074 on: March 17, 2020, 12:13:05 pm »
I’ve only seen Brent Spiner as Data. He’s cool and he likes cats.

I named a kitty after his Ginger Tabby, "Spot."
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline Sighlass

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,807
  • Didn't vote for McCain Dole Romney Trump !
Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2075 on: March 17, 2020, 12:15:41 pm »
Bookmark... yall keep it up... at least if I am gonna be home bound, ya give me something to read.
Exodus 18:21 Furthermore, you shall select out of all the people able men who fear God, men of truth, those who hate dishonest gain; and you shall place these over them as leaders over ....

Online roamer_1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 35,908
Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2076 on: March 17, 2020, 12:17:23 pm »
More like 500.

More than that, shutting it off STOPS our ability to innovate. STOPS our ability to respond. It creates a finite pie. In that, MORE will die.

Offline DB

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,445
Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2077 on: March 17, 2020, 12:18:41 pm »
No I am not - the predicted numbers of deaths across the course of this, according to worst case, is 200k to 1.7m

But that ain't even it.
They are using confirmed cases, which are cases tested and proved, to come up with the mortality rate. But for every confirmed case there are a myriad of cases that never will be tested or confirmed. Because testing is only done when symptoms present and warrant the testing.

to wit:
Say 100 confirmed cases with 1 death in a given region.
but there are 900 cases that never get logged, because the flu like symptoms were mild enough that the infected never went in to be tested...

The mortality rate is defined as 1 in 100.
But the truth is 1 in 1000.

That is a far cry less virulent and a far more palatable mortality rate... incidentally that rate will likely track with common virus pandemics... Like flu.

At the personal level that is true - you have a better chance (still a matter of chance). But not in the aggregate. Again, we have never controlled a virus in the wild. NEVER. It will run it's course.

I take it you are not a small-businessman. When I was operating, I guarantee you, my businesses could not sustain a 60 day shut-down. Certainly not 90 days. ANY shut=down would have been flirting with bankruptcy. And I know I am not alone in that.

Shutting it off will be devastating on many many levels.

You keep on demanding that this is nothing more than the typical flu. That clearly isn't the case.

If that were true the hospitals in Italy and other countries that have heavy exposure wouldn't be in complete overload doing triage at the front door. The normal flu doesn't do that as well evidenced by many years of repeated cycles.

You think China completely shut down large parts of its economy for more than a month over the flu??? They have far less concern for the lives of people there.

Being wrong here has serious consequences no matter which side you error on. There's some balance between dead people and economic loss that can be achieved beyond letting nature take its course.

Offline catfish1957

  • The Conservative Carp Rapscallion of Brieferville
  • Political Researcher
  • *****
  • Posts: 25,430
  • Gender: Male
Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2078 on: March 17, 2020, 12:20:32 pm »
Bookmark... yall keep it up... at least if I am gonna be home bound, ya give me something to read.

I think we all are going to start to re-learn and enjoy the simple pleasures.

Like right now, as I write, I see 3 deer getting dangerously close to my wife's rose garden,  I'd normally spook 'em, but I think I will give 'em a pass this time.
I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

Offline Applewood

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,938
Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2079 on: March 17, 2020, 12:20:37 pm »
I'm one of those old people who is still going out, but these days, I'm rather limited to supermarkets and pharmacies as destinations because almost everything else is closed. 

One thing I have started to do is walk outside.  In my distressed neighborhood, normally, it would be dangerous to walk around even in the daytime, but I've noticed that even the gangstas must be staying home.  The street I live on is normally bustling, particularly with teenagers blaring their car stereos, but the last dew days the street has been eerily quiet.  No traffic either.  I could almost walk down the middle of my street and not be run over. 

Walking is good exercise and among the many recommendations from the "experts" on combating this virus are regular exercise and a healthy diet.  Since the gyms are closed and if you don't have any home gym equipment, why not get outside in the fresh air and sunshine and do your exercise there? 

Online Cyber Liberty

  • Coffee! Donuts! Kittens!
  • Administrator
  • ******
  • Posts: 62,386
  • Gender: Male
  • 🌵🌵🌵
Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2080 on: March 17, 2020, 12:25:14 pm »
I think we all are going to start to re-learn and enjoy the simple pleasures.

Like right now, as I write, I see 3 deer getting dangerously close to my wife's rose garden,  I'd normally spook 'em, but I think I will give 'em a pass this time.

Roses are tasty to that bunch.  Watch out for the Wrath of the Wife if you let them eat too many.... wink777
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline DB

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,445
Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2081 on: March 17, 2020, 12:28:43 pm »
No. Understand:
We have never controlled a virus in the wild. Never.
We have had flu vaccines for a very long time - they do nothing to impact the overall epidemic, and never have.

Come on. That's just plain wrong.

Polio, Tetanus, Measles, Whooping Cough, ever heard of them? There are many others...

You think quarantines never works? The whole point is to slow down the spread so that medical facilities and supplies can keep up with demand instead of doing triage at the front door. Once triage starts all serious medical conditions go through the process. It sucks to be you if you could have survived your heart attack but the resources were overload at the time. Just nature taking its course you say...

Offline DB

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,445
Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2082 on: March 17, 2020, 12:35:31 pm »
We should be going what Japan and S. Korea are doing. We are not Italy yet put appear to be follow the same trajectory.  Not good.  And I do not believe the numbers (or anything) coming out of China.

Yep. Chinese and Iranian numbers are useless. They shouldn't be thrown in with other reliable data. It is just pollution.

Japan and S. Korea are very homogeneous countries that are very cautious to begin with and tend to follow directives from their government.

Offline musiclady

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,811
Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2083 on: March 17, 2020, 12:36:32 pm »
Come on. That's just plain wrong.

Polio, Tetanus, Measles, Whooping Cough, ever heard of them? There are many others...

You think quarantines never works? The whole point is to slow down the spread so that medical facilities and supplies can keep up with demand instead of doing triage at the front door. Once triage starts all serious medical conditions go through the process. It sucks to be you if you could have survived your heart attack but the resources were overload at the time. Just nature taking its course you say...

How about the VIRUS Smallpox?? And all those quarantined because they, or family members had it, and all those lives SAVED because of it??
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline catfish1957

  • The Conservative Carp Rapscallion of Brieferville
  • Political Researcher
  • *****
  • Posts: 25,430
  • Gender: Male
Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2084 on: March 17, 2020, 12:38:29 pm »
Roses are tasty to that bunch.  Watch out for the Wrath of the Wife if you let them eat too many.... wink777

Ohhhh I know.  After one decided to make the plunge, I shooshed them away. Seems the Deer-a-way stuff doesn't always work. 

OTOH, I get pretty worked up over my Pear Orchard.

About 6 years ago, the local squirrels discoverd my pear trees, and started munching on them, generally a month before ripening.  I tried everything from chemicals, to wind blown devices, to fake owls.....  I tried them all.   What was worst of all the $%$#  critters would take just one bite, and drop the fruit on the ground.  It was driving me crazy, and I looked like a mad man chasing them off.

I finally got fed up and blasted about a dozen of them, and hung their dead carcasses in the tree.   It was pretty stealth with operation, until one of my wife's ultra animal activist type friends saw them, and threatened to turn me into PETA (LMAO).  Rather than confronting the lady, my wife intervened, and kindly asked me to take the rodent flags down. 

Sadly have not had a pear since.   :shrug:

I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

Offline DB

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,445
Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2085 on: March 17, 2020, 12:38:34 pm »
How about the VIRUS Smallpox?? And all those quarantined because they, or family members had it, and all those lives SAVED because of it??

The list is long... I just posted what came quickly to me...

Offline skeeter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,617
  • Gender: Male
Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2086 on: March 17, 2020, 12:41:59 pm »
Yep. Chinese and Iranian numbers are useless. They shouldn't be thrown in with other reliable data. It is just pollution.

Japan and S. Korea are very homogeneous countries that are very cautious to begin with and tend to follow directives from their government.

Countries individual trajectories will track in relation to the sophistication of their medical facilities. Another reason I think the US will have relatively little trouble with this virus.

Asia is doing well with COVID19 because they already had the SARs scare and have the healthcare infrastructure to deal with it.

Offline DB

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,445
Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2087 on: March 17, 2020, 12:43:07 pm »
How about the VIRUS Smallpox?? And all those quarantined because they, or family members had it, and all those lives SAVED because of it??

Quarantines obviously do work. Few virus just blow in the wind... I don't follow the denial of basic knowldege.

I can understand an argument of where to draw the line between lives and cost. But to just call this the flu and no big deal and that it just needs to run it course naturally is something else.

Offline Formerly Once-Ler

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 0
Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2088 on: March 17, 2020, 12:44:33 pm »
It's not going to happen, and is likely to be reelected despite all his shortcomings (and there are plenty).
@Cyber Liberty
Agreed.  He won't resign, and he'll likely be reelected, but maybe with a rat control Congress.

Online roamer_1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 35,908
Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2089 on: March 17, 2020, 12:44:38 pm »
You keep on demanding that this is nothing more than the typical flu. That clearly isn't the case.

No @DB I am demanding that this is nothing more than a typical virus, and I am right.
It's virulence doesn't matter. it's morbidity rate doesn't matter.

AGAIN: We have never ever controlled a virus in the wild.
That record dictates that we will not control this one either.
I do not mean to seem cold. I understand why folks are worried. but facts are facts. And SHUTTING OFF INDUSTRY will not change that. It will only make it worse.

Quote
If that were true the hospitals in Italy and other countries that have heavy exposure wouldn't be in complete overload doing triage at the front door. The normal flu doesn't do that as well evidenced by many years of repeated cycles.

A socialist country with socialized medicine and you don't understand it's incompetence?
And we are supposed to mimic that?

Quote
You think China completely shut down large parts of its economy for more than a month over the flu??? They have far less concern for the lives of people there.

Again, a socialist country. Top-down hammer. It is no wonder. Better to look at So Korea and Japan, our routine partners and allies, whose medical systems are full of our shared technology.

Quote
Being wrong here has serious consequences no matter which side you error on. There's some balance between dead people and economic loss that can be achieved beyond letting nature take its course.

Again, you misunderstand. Nature will take its course. that is inevitable. 
We have never controlled a virus in the wild.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2020, 12:46:06 pm by roamer_1 »

Online Cyber Liberty

  • Coffee! Donuts! Kittens!
  • Administrator
  • ******
  • Posts: 62,386
  • Gender: Male
  • 🌵🌵🌵
Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2090 on: March 17, 2020, 12:45:00 pm »
Come on. That's just plain wrong.

Polio, Tetanus, Measles, Whooping Cough, ever heard of them? There are many others...

You think quarantines never works? The whole point is to slow down the spread so that medical facilities and supplies can keep up with demand instead of doing triage at the front door. Once triage starts all serious medical conditions go through the process. It sucks to be you if you could have survived your heart attack but the resources were overload at the time. Just nature taking its course you say...

You got it.  The point of the "social distancing" (Geesh, there's a buzz-word for you!) is to slow it down enough to buy time to find treatments and vaccines.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline Hoodat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 33,735
Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2091 on: March 17, 2020, 12:45:39 pm »
Do you find the article convincing @Hoodat ?

It is an opinion piece, not an article.  But I do think that the economic impact from draconian measures we collectively as a nation are taking in the current panic will be far more damaging and far-reaching than the virus itself.  The influx of new money by the Fed has by itself reduced my standard of living.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.     -Dwight Eisenhower-

"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."     -Ayn Rand-

Offline DB

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,445
Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2092 on: March 17, 2020, 12:46:05 pm »
@roamer_1
Alright. We'll just have to disagree and leave it at that.

Online Cyber Liberty

  • Coffee! Donuts! Kittens!
  • Administrator
  • ******
  • Posts: 62,386
  • Gender: Male
  • 🌵🌵🌵
Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2093 on: March 17, 2020, 12:46:48 pm »
@Cyber Liberty
Agreed.  He won't resign, and he'll likely be reelected, but maybe with a rat control Congress.

And that depends on the actions of the Rats as much as it does on the actions of the President.  No election occurs in a vacuum.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline DB

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,445
Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2094 on: March 17, 2020, 12:47:42 pm »
It is an opinion piece, not an article.  But I do think that the economic impact from draconian measures we collectively as a nation are taking in the current panic will be far more damaging and far-reaching than the virus itself.  The influx of new money by the Fed has by itself reduced my standard of living.

That it has. It is just bumping things forward about a year with the annual trillion dollar deficits filled with funny money.

Offline musiclady

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,811
Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2095 on: March 17, 2020, 12:50:20 pm »
Quarantines obviously do work. Few virus just blow in the wind... I don't follow the denial of basic knowldege.

I can understand an argument of where to draw the line between lives and cost. But to just call this the flu and no big deal and that it just needs to run it course naturally is something else.

That's where I am, @DB.  Not in panic mode, not a lemming following the government blindly.

Just understanding that we are in uncharted territory, that the goal is to slow down the spread of this virus, and that as a Christian and a Conservative, I need to behave responsibly.

Saying this is nothing, and saying "to heck with it, I'm going about my life as I want to" to me is irresponsible.

But maybe that's just me.......
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Online roamer_1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 35,908
Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2096 on: March 17, 2020, 12:51:40 pm »
Come on. That's just plain wrong.

Polio, Tetanus, Measles, Whooping Cough, ever heard of them? There are many others...

Attrition over many years, not controlling outbreak.

Quote
You think quarantines never works? The whole point is to slow down the spread so that medical facilities and supplies can keep up with demand instead of doing triage at the front door. Once triage starts all serious medical conditions go through the process. It sucks to be you if you could have survived your heart attack but the resources were overload at the time. Just nature taking its course you say...

No, quarantine works at the individual level - you lower your risk. But it hardly effects the aggregate.

And as I have said, over and again, massive quarantine,shutting down industry and infrastructure DESTROYS our ability to respond with agility. It creates a finite pie, with finite resources.

Need more beds? Make more damn beds.
But that requires an agile industry and materials, and distribution.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2020, 12:52:39 pm by roamer_1 »

Online Bigun

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 34,801
  • Gender: Male
  • Resistance to Tyrants is Obedience to God
    • The FairTax Plan
Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2097 on: March 17, 2020, 12:51:51 pm »
I have not seen anyone here argue against taking reasonable precautions against the Wuhan Coronavirus but what is reasonable varies from person to person and this currently evolving one size fits all approach is NOT the answer.

I am coronaed out

IMHO Mr. Lloyd Marcus has HIS head screwed on VERY straight!
« Last Edit: March 17, 2020, 12:57:34 pm by Bigun »
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Formerly Once-Ler

  • Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 0
Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2098 on: March 17, 2020, 12:52:43 pm »
And what about others? No concern?

Nursing homes and hospitals should open their doors back to visitors?

I mean, we ARE all going to die, right??  :shrug:

Come on. That's just plain wrong.

Polio, Tetanus, Measles, Whooping Cough, ever heard of them? There are many others...

You think quarantines never works? The whole point is to slow down the spread so that medical facilities and supplies can keep up with demand instead of doing triage at the front door. Once triage starts all serious medical conditions go through the process. It sucks to be you if you could have survived your heart attack but the resources were overload at the time. Just nature taking its course you say...

How about the VIRUS Smallpox?? And all those quarantined because they, or family members had it, and all those lives SAVED because of it??

 goopo


Offline Applewood

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,938
Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion
« Reply #2099 on: March 17, 2020, 12:53:15 pm »
A coronavirus patient refused to quarantine, so deputies are surrounding his house to force him to

Quote
A Kentucky novel coronavirus patient checked himself out of the hospital against medical advice. So to prevent him from spreading the virus, officials are surrounding his house to keep him there.

The 53-year-old man in Nelson County refused to quarantine himself after testing positive for Covid-19, Kentucky Gov. Andy Beshear said.

Nelson County officials "forced an isolation" on the man, one of the first 20 confirmed Covid-19 cases in the state.


https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/17/us/kentucky-refused-quarantine-coronavirus-trnd/index.html

Ok, this guy has the virus and no one wants him spreading it around.  But is the next step to force all of us still  healthy people to stay home  by whatever means necessary, including force?
« Last Edit: March 17, 2020, 01:00:26 pm by Applewood »