Author Topic: Christianity Today, influential evangelical magazine, says Trump 'should be removed from office'  (Read 4230 times)

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Offline jmyrlefuller

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https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2019/december-web-only/trump-should-be-removed-from-office.html

by Mark Galli
December 19, 2019

The typical CT approach is to stay above the fray and allow Christians with different political convictions to make their arguments in the public square, to encourage all to pursue justice according to their convictions and treat their political opposition as charitably as possible. We want CT to be a place that welcomes Christians from across the political spectrum, and reminds everyone that politics is not the end and purpose of our being. We take pride in the fact, for instance, that politics does not dominate our homepage.

That said, we do feel it necessary from time to time to make our own opinions on political matters clear—always, as Graham encouraged us, doing so with both conviction and love.

Whether Mr. Trump should be removed from office by the Senate or by popular vote next election—that is a matter of prudential judgment. That he should be removed, we believe, is not a matter of partisan loyalties but loyalty to the Creator of the Ten Commandments.

(excerpt)
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Offline Chosen Daughter

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Christianity Today, influential evangelical magazine, says Trump 'should be removed from office'
Savannah Behrmann
USA TODAY

WASHINGTON – Influential evangelical magazine, Christianity Today, released an editorial Thursday calling for President Donald Trump to be removed from office.

“That he should be removed, we believe, is not a matter of partisan loyalties but loyalty to the Creator of the Ten Commandments,” the magazine's editor-in-chief, Mark Galli, penned.

The evangelical publication was founded by late legendary preacher Billy Graham. His son, Franklin Graham, has been one of Trump's most ardent Evangelical defenders. Recently, Graham compared Trump's political foes to "demonic forces."

After writing that Galli did believe Democrats "have had it out for [Trump] from day one", the article continued that, in their view, nevertheless "The president of the United States attempted to use his political power to coerce a foreign leader to harass and discredit one of the president’s political opponents. That is not only a violation of the Constitution; more importantly, it is profoundly immoral."

After the editorial was posted, the magazine's site briefly crashed from drawing so many readers...……..

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/12/19/christianity-today-says-trump-should-removed-office/2704963001/

AG William Barr: "I'm recused from that matter because one of the law firms that represented Epstein long ago was a firm that I subsequently joined for a period of time."

Alexander Acosta Labor Secretary resigned under pressure concerning his "sweetheart deal" with Jeffrey Epstein.  He was under consideration for AG after Sessions was removed, but was forced to resign instead.

Offline dfwgator

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More like "Wolves in Sheep's Clothing Today"

Offline Chosen Daughter

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More like "Wolves in Sheep's Clothing Today"

The wolves are the religious people playing cover for immoral Trump.
AG William Barr: "I'm recused from that matter because one of the law firms that represented Epstein long ago was a firm that I subsequently joined for a period of time."

Alexander Acosta Labor Secretary resigned under pressure concerning his "sweetheart deal" with Jeffrey Epstein.  He was under consideration for AG after Sessions was removed, but was forced to resign instead.

Offline dfwgator

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The wolves are the religious people playing cover for immoral Trump.

Compared to 99.9% of all politicians, Trump is more moral,  it's just that with Trump,  you see all of his warts.    Others, do a better job of hiding them.

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Offline dfwgator

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Re: Trump Should Be Removed from Office (Christianity Today editorial)
« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2019, 04:41:46 am »
Trump is flawed.

His opposition is evil.

Offline Chosen Daughter

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AG William Barr: "I'm recused from that matter because one of the law firms that represented Epstein long ago was a firm that I subsequently joined for a period of time."

Alexander Acosta Labor Secretary resigned under pressure concerning his "sweetheart deal" with Jeffrey Epstein.  He was under consideration for AG after Sessions was removed, but was forced to resign instead.

Offline jafo2010

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Again, completely inconsequential what this fool says.  The fact is that the evangelical folks I know, to the man and woman, are ardent Trump supporters.

Think of it like the Roman Catholic church rank and file.  The church opposes birth control and abortion, and yet the vast majority of Catholics use or resort to both and ignore the church's position.  This editor will influence a minute number.  Why?  Because common sense champions any form of bias, political, religious, whatever!!!!!

And frankly, ask yourself, how much would Soros have to bribe this guy to get him to say this?  I think half a million would have this puke saying the devil is the true god.

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Again, completely inconsequential what this fool says.  The fact is that the evangelical folks I know, to the man and woman, are ardent Trump supporters.

Think of it like the Roman Catholic church rank and file.  The church opposes birth control and abortion, and yet the vast majority of Catholics use or resort to both and ignore the church's position.  This editor will influence a minute number.  Why?  Because common sense champions any form of bias, political, religious, whatever!!!!!

And frankly, ask yourself, how much would Soros have to bribe this guy to get him to say this?  I think half a million would have this puke saying the devil is the true god.

Original article:

https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2019/december-web-only/trump-should-be-removed-from-office.html

So, so good.

No, can't go there.  Nothing to do with Soros and everything to do with Trump.  This is a leading Christian magazine.  I think it will reach a lot of readers.  And I know Christian Trump supporters who just need a nudge.  Because they complain about Trumps tweets or his GDing at his rallies.

This is written perfectly.  It is "perfect".  A "perfect article.  A call to Christians to think about who they are.

Here is the link to that perfect article, the original:

https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2019/december-web-only/trump-should-be-removed-from-office.html
« Last Edit: December 20, 2019, 08:30:50 am by Chosen Daughter »
AG William Barr: "I'm recused from that matter because one of the law firms that represented Epstein long ago was a firm that I subsequently joined for a period of time."

Alexander Acosta Labor Secretary resigned under pressure concerning his "sweetheart deal" with Jeffrey Epstein.  He was under consideration for AG after Sessions was removed, but was forced to resign instead.

Offline Sighlass

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Here is another take on the CT article...

How Trump Lost an Evangelical Stalwart

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2019/12/christianity-today-trump-removal/603952/

Though I don't agree with everything here... it is nice to see some Christian sites actually owning up to Trump's behavior... Oddly they first focus on things political (of which I don't fully agree with)... then actually delve in his personal behavior (something they have been blind to report earlier for the most part after he was elected).
Exodus 18:21 Furthermore, you shall select out of all the people able men who fear God, men of truth, those who hate dishonest gain; and you shall place these over them as leaders over ....

Offline FeelNoPain

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Re: Trump Should Be Removed from Office (Christianity Today editorial)
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2019, 09:56:29 am »
Trump is flawed.

His opposition is evil.

Rather than try to sell that view to an electorate that will never buy that position, why not just get someone else?

Is there no one else in this country who can (better?) communicate Trump's valid views on trade, immigration, etc without being an anathema to an unsustainable percentage of 18-29 year-olds, blacks, Latinos, Asians, college grads, (and now an increasing number of Evangelicals?) who are long past exhausted of this elderly man's infantilism? Isn't it reasonable to believe that other voters in this country don't have the capacity to continually excuse this man's behavior the way that his most ardent supporters do?

Whether you excise him or excuse him, demographically speaking, Trumpism is unsustainable.
"I’d like to begin by addressing the heinous attack on the United States Capitol. Like all Americans I am outraged by the violence, lawlessness and mayhem...

To demonstrators who infiltrated the Capitol: you have defiled the seat of American democracy. To those who engage in the acts of violence and destruction: you do not represent our country. And to those who broke the law: you will pay." - President Donald J. Trump, January 7th, 2021

Offline TomSea

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I have little doubt this is a highly respectful magazine but as it is, someone like Franklin Graham probably carries a bit more weight with me.

Pat Robertson has been critical too and to be honest, that criticism is probably deserved. But the Democrats basically are just awful. That's mainly what it comes down to.

This impeachment farce too,  for me, makes me more likely to vote again for the Republicans, note, I say for the Republicans because I will vote for the party.

In the end, though, we all can fight over this, we need to remember, each of us have that one solitary measly one vote. If we took all the votes we have made in our lifetimes, it might not amount to a hill of beans BUT... it's the numbers of voting with others that does the trick.

Offline Applewood

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@Chosen Daughter

I used to be Catholic in my younger days.  Back then about the closest my pastor got to politics was to urge the congregation to vote on election day.  I gather there was some prohibition against priests publicly taking sides in political matters or advocating one candidate over another. 

So these clergymen and religious leaders fawning over Trump is disturbing to me.  Sounds to me like they are urging their flocks to ditch God and worship the orange-haired guy in the White House.  And I suspect many of them have. 

I'm pleased that Christianity Today has spoken out.  I just wish it or someone within the religious community would have said something about this worshipful support for Trump before now.

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gimme dat ole time religion.........
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Re: Trump Should Be Removed from Office (Christianity Today editorial)
« Reply #15 on: December 20, 2019, 01:12:22 pm »
Where was CT on the issue of presidential morality when Clinton was bombing churches (on Easter Sunday) and maternity hospitals?
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Offline EdinVA

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So, lets see if I understand this....We should have had Jimmy Carter instead of Winston Churchill or G. W. Bush instead of J. F. Kennedy?We want nice? 
We had nice with GW Bush and Obama and between them socially decapitated a dozen countries... yea, that's gonna work real well...

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Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline jmyrlefuller

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Re: Trump Should Be Removed from Office (Christianity Today editorial)
« Reply #18 on: December 20, 2019, 01:49:46 pm »
Where was CT on the issue of presidential morality when Clinton was bombing churches (on Easter Sunday) and maternity hospitals?
https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/1998/october5/8tb036.html
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"The president of the United States attempted to use his political power to coerce a foreign leader to harass and discredit one of the president’s political opponents. That is not only a violation of the Constitution; more importantly, it is profoundly immoral."

That reporting is inaccurate period.  The Constitution does not allow for a president to be removed from office for his "character".  It is his character that was judged in the House as no proof of any collusion or coercing has been validated; the only validation of coercion is on the behalf of the president's political opponent.

Jerry Falwell
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10h10 hours ago

Less than 20% of evangelicals supported @HillaryClinton in 2016 but now @CTmagazine has removed any doubt that they are part of the same 17% or so of liberal evangelicals who have preached social gospel for decades! CT unmasked!


Take a  look at who is running on the left and their bid for socialism, transgenderism, same sex marriage, abortion, gay rights, etc., and they are going to judge Trump by his character and morality?  Really??  President Donald J. Trump is NOT without fault.  No one is.

Again, because they do not like this President is NOT grounds for his impeachment.

I was baptized as an infant into the Catholic church. I attended Catholic school where I attended church every morning when the mass was said in Latin and reverence for the teachings of the Bible and the apostolic succession were held in high esteem. My core beliefs have not changed and I heartily disagree with the stance and left curves that the Church has taken over the past several decades. IMHO 'evangelism' today is to promote the 'church' which is an entity that is being used to fulfill a leftist, socialistic agenda.

Yes we must absolutely vote our conscience, but I believe we must also vote on who will be best for this country.  I CANNOT vote for those who promote social and moral decay in our country.  I believe that Trump's quest to find out what happened in the Ukraine was to 'protect' this country, not to destroy an opponent.  Sorry, I just don't see Uncle Joe as much of an opponent rather I see him as a long time corrupt politician who his running for the office of the President.

I would invite you to watch this clip by Ted Cruz:

https://www.heritage.org/the-constitution/event/trump-impeachment-legitimate-process-or-partisan-weapon
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

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Re: Trump Should Be Removed from Office (Christianity Today editorial)
« Reply #20 on: December 20, 2019, 02:02:03 pm »
https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/1998/october5/8tb036.html
While they then criticized Clinton, I don't see that they demanded his removal in the strong language they are using now against Trump.

Meanwhile, for what it's worth, here's the Christian Post response to CT:
Quote
A response to Christianity Today’s call for President Trump's removal from office
By Michael Brown, CP Op-Ed Contributor

Like many evangelicals, I have great respect for Christianity Today. It remains a hallmark, evangelical publication. And although it has leaned leftward in some respects in recent years, it is quite conservative compared to far-left evangelical publications like Jim Wallis’ Sojourners. So, it represents a serious moment when Mark Galli, the editor in chief of Christianity Today (henceforth CT), writing on behalf of the publication, calls for Trump’s removal. ...

I’m aware, of course, of how the secular media will spin this. Galli’s editorial will be used to deepen the divide between us.

It will be used to make rejection of Trump a litmus test for true evangelical Christianity. (Ironically, in other circles, it is support of Trump that serves as a litmus test of one’s true faith.) It will be used to discourage evangelicals from voting for Trump, if not to shame them for voting for him.

But again, because a substantial minority of evangelicals concur with Galli’s words, they needed to be spoken.

Second, there are many evangelicals who do not believe the Democratic charges against Trump and who see the impeachment as a witch hunt and a sham. (See this article from my Stream colleague John Zmirak for a clear, philosophical perspective.) In their minds, the charges are hardly “unambiguous.” Quite the contrary. ...

I agree with Galli that, under the current administration, there has been a dumbing down of the idea of morality. And it’s true that many evangelicals now wink at things that once grieved them, thankful to have a man like Trump who will stand up and fight (many would say, “Finally!”).

But that doesn’t mean we remove him for his alleged dumbing down of morality. It means we are careful not to lose our own morality in the process.  ...
If you read the whole thing, you'll see that Brown doesn't just dismiss the CT editorial as a kneejerk reaction.  He suggests:
Quote
That is where we must put our emphasis: living as Jesus would have us live, with politics an important and yet much more distant priority for most of us.

My proposal today for my fellow evangelicals is this. Let us each humble ourselves before God and pray, “Father, what is Your heart in all this? And what would you have me do? Show me my blind spots, and strengthen my convictions when they reflect yours. I only want Your will.”

Then, let’s have honest conversations with our brothers and sisters who differ with us, starting with this: “Please share your perspective with me. I want to understand where you’re coming from.” ...
I agree with his concern that there may be some sort of litmus test of evangelical support - or disapproval - of Trump. It's not quite that simple.
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Trump Should Be Removed from Office (Christianity Today editorial)
« Reply #21 on: December 20, 2019, 02:22:33 pm »
Where was CT on the issue of presidential morality when Clinton was bombing churches (on Easter Sunday) and maternity hospitals?

@mountaineer

I am going to take a wild guess and say they were ranting and raving about that too,but the media was completely ignoring it. They only pay attention to stuff like that when there is a Republican President.

If I didn't know better,I would suspect they are biased.
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Offline skeeter

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Again, completely inconsequential what this fool says.  The fact is that the evangelical folks I know, to the man and woman, are ardent Trump supporters.


Those I know, as well. All opinions about Trump aside, Christianity Today knew they were playing willing tools of the abortion loving, Christian hating left with this editorial. Duly noted.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2019, 02:53:13 pm by skeeter »

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