Mexico-Watch Thread

[TomSea]

Mormon wedding massacre: Three American mothers and at least six of their children are EXECUTED by drug cartel gunmen in Mexico on the way to a wedding and their bodies are left in burned out SUVs

    At least nine U.S. citizens, including six children, who live in the Mexican border state of Sonora were killed in a shooting attack Monday
    Rhonita Maria LeBaron, reportedly died along with her twin 6-month-old babies and her two other children aged 10 and 12 
    Also killed were Christina Langford Johnson, Dawna Langford and two of Dawna's children
    Seventeen family members from the LeBarons and Langford families - who are related - were traveling in a caravan of three cars to a wedding
    According to relatives, Mexican drug cartel gunman opened fire
    One relative said as many as 13 others were missing after the attack

Read more at: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7650129/Relatives-say-5-US-citizens-killed-northern-Mexico.html

BBC coverage, maybe essential facts are covered more clearly and simply:

US Mormon children killed in Mexico attack

    At least five US citizens, a mother and four children, have been killed in a violent attack by suspected drug cartel gunmen in northern Mexico.

    The victims were said to be members of the LeBaron family, linked to a breakaway Mormon community which settled in Mexico several decades ago.

    Video of the scene shows a burnt-out car and some victims may have burned alive. Several more people are missing.

Read more at:   https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-50299562

I thought it said maybe over ten persons are still missing. A number of Mennonites are in Mexico too. 

I would think that prime suspects are either El Chapo's Sinaloa Cartel or the upstart and now, more powerful cartel,  Cartel New Generation of Jalisco (where Guadalajara is located), CNGL maybe? They seem to be the ones battling in North Western Mexico.

BBC article might be a little better actually. I might have caught the original news feed from Michelle Malkin. Even by Mexico's standards, the BBC says this is a pretty awful incident. In the early 2000s, Mexico even had a very low murder rate and then, the deluge hit.

[mountaineer]

The LeBarons are a polygamous branch of Mormon. A former member is now part of a Christian ministry based in Florida. You can read about her here.

Mormons were attacked near the US-Mexico border. A family member says 9 US-Mexican citizens were killed
By Madeline Holcombe and Gianluca Mezzofiore, CNN
Updated 7:44 AM ET, Tue November 5, 2019

Members of a Mormon community were attacked while traveling near the US-Mexico border, authorities said Tuesday. Nine family members -- all with dual US-Mexican citizenship -- were killed, a relative of the victims said.

Preliminary information indicates three vehicles traveling between the Mexican states of Sonora and Chihuahua in the region of Sierra Madre Occidental were attacked by criminal groups, Attorney General of the State of Chihuahua Cesar Peniche Espejel said in a statement Tuesday. The victims were mostly women and children, and minors were found with injuries, the statement said.

Victims' family members said the incident happened when the families were moving from Bavispe, Sonora, to Janos, Chihuahua, according to Peniche Espejel.

Alex LeBaron, who says he lost family members in the attack, told CNN that three vehicles were targeted, taking the lives of three women, four small children and two infants.  ...  Story at CNN

[kevindavis007]

Just as I suspect, the anti Mormon on the TOS is having a field day: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/3791617/posts

[mountaineer]

Just as I suspect, the anti Mormon on the TOS is having a field day:

I've had someone on twitter tell me they really aren't Mormons because the church doesn't officially recognize this polygamist sect. I believe they are adherents of the teachings of Joseph Smith and the church (apart from the official policy against polygamy), however, unofficial status notwithstanding. 

 Of course, their religious beliefs - sanctioned or not - are irrelevant to the fact that Mexican criminals murdered them.

[sneakypete]

Somebody please clear up something for me. WTH were American Mormons doing living in Mexico to start with? If they were there to avoid paying US taxes and to protest life in America,screw them. The bought the ticket,and they can take the ride. It's Mexico's problem,not ours.

[mountaineer]

The LeBaron sect has lived in Mexico for decades, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ervil_LeBaron .

[dfwgator]

Yet Mitt wants to bring this to the US.

[mountaineer]

The drug cartels seem to be running Mexico.

...   El Universal, one of Mexico's largest newspapers, quoted other relatives as saying that members of a Mormon family were killed in what appeared to be an organized crime ambush.

El Universal reported that a large group of family members were traveling to La Mora, in the Bavispe municipality of Sonora, when they were ambushed.

The attack comes amid a wave of violence in Mexico in recent weeks, shocking even for a country used to more than a decade of intense drug war violence. The most notable incident was a military-style cartel assault that forced the government to release a leader of the Sinaloa Cartel in October.

Mexico's national civil defense agency confirmed that elements of the National Guard, the army and the state police were conducting a search operation in Bavispe on Monday night in response to the reports. It provided no other information.   ...

More from NBC News via MSN

[mountaineer]

The Sun (U.K.) provides more horrific detail:

MORMON BLOODBATH Sonora massacre – Babies burned alive and women ‘raped’ as Mexican cartel murder nine US Mormons in ‘targeted’ hit
    Jenny Awford, Nicola Stow and Jon Lockett
    5 Nov 2019, 13:45Updated: 5 Nov 2019, 15:02

BABIES were reportedly burned alive and women raped when cartel killers slaughtered nine US Mormons in a "targeted" hit in Mexico.

The victims were ambushed by the merciless gunmen as they drove to a wedding in the border state of Sonora on Monday.  ...

Another relative and anti-crime activist Julian LeBaron said some family members were burned alive when their vehicle exploded.

He visited the scene and was left distraught after seeing the charred bodies inside the van.

He said the victims were innocent and were caught up in a war involving rival drug cartels. Speaking to Milenio TV, he said: "This was a mistake. We do not know why. ..."

More

[TomSea]

I can't thank you enough for the links @mountaineer  , they are very helpful, especially those of their ministry.

At this point, I think it looks intentional, not "mistaken-identity", I mean really. I'm surprised if they were out in a desert type area or maybe it was a bit greener, that anyone survived.

Some Canadian coverage which is actually AP it appears:

9 Americans killed, child missing after ambush in Mexico


Mexican Security Minister Alfonso Durazo, seen last month ...

....

Jhon LeBaron, another relative, posted on his Facebook page that his aunt and another woman were dead, which could bring the death toll to at least seven. He also posted that six of his aunt's children had been left abandoned but alive on a roadside.

Utah Sen. Mitt Romney, whose father George was born in a Mormon settlement in Mexico, expressed his sadness over the killings.

"Ann and I are heartbroken for the victims of the horrific attacks in Mexico," he said. "Our prayers are with their families who have suffered such an unspeakable tragedy. The U.S. must work with Mexican officials to hold accountable those responsible for this senseless violence."

More at: https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/mexico-americans-killed-1.5348041

Sen. Romney is indeed, commenting on it on twitter.

It's interesting that some Mormons and Mennonites and maybe some other religions went down there for "religious freedom", I mean, the Mennonites probably were not concerned about some laws but now, it shows how times have changed so much. Never did these things happen in the past. I'm pretty sure I have read about some violence aimed at Mennonites though, I don't think they were killed, I read about a car theft actually. They must be wondering if they should stay down there or as one of the articles mentions, have their own security force.

I can't buy this was some "mistaken identification" but it wouldn't be out of the picture.

[sneakypete]

The LeBaron sect has lived in Mexico for decades, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ervil_LeBaron .

@mountaineer

Ok,so at MOST they are "Americans of convenience" that only take,and give nothing.

Once again,screw them. Not our problem.

[TomSea]

@mountaineer
Once again,screw them. Not our problem.

Generally speaking, you are correct.

These are, likely, the same people responsible for death and destruction in the USA through selling drugs and human trafficking.

It would take some reflection to figure out the best options but a wall and security forces are not the only option available.

People would scream we are violating a country's sovereignty but if we knew where an organized crime kingpin or his forces were, I would at least consider an airstrike like what we did to Gaddafi under Reagan.

That might open up a whole can of worms but still, if I were in National Security,  I might run it by the cabinet along with destroying drug crop fields or the labs.  I am just saying, it might be worth consideration especially if it looks like Mexico is lax on this, smugglers' hideaways too.

Maybe total fantasy.

@sneakypete

That said, we have some working-realationship with Mexico and fairly transparent in that aspect meaning, we will be able to know what we did through FOIA and so on.

[Smokin Joe]

Yet Mitt wants to bring this to the US.

Which? The drug cartels or the Mormon sect?

I'm no fan of Mitt, and we already have both operating here in the US.

[TomSea]

Trending
Trump Offers U.S. Help to Mexico in Going to War Against Drug Cartels
By Rick Moran November 5, 2019

A family of Mormons who had lived in a community along the Mexican border for decades were apparently ambushed by members of a drug cartel with the result that nine women, and children were massacred.

The LeBaron family had lived in a small Mormon community in Northern Mexico for decades. The family, who are American citizens, are an offshoot of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Some are speculating that the ambush, carried out in broad daylight, was a case of mistaken identity. But the LeBaron's have a history of opposing the drug trade -- two family members were murdered a decade ago for opposing the cartels. It seems likely that the cartels wanted to drive the family out of Mexico by murdering their women and children.

The president responded strongly to the outrage.

(please see the President's tweet at link, already posted?)

Article: https://pjmedia.com/trending/trump-offers-u-s-help-to-mexico-in-going-to-war-against-drug-cartels/

Also, I note one story said one missing but most other stories seem to say more. Waiting for more news.

The pjmedia story mentions it, the Cartels were taken on and the bloodshed only got worse.

Isn't that peculiar, at times, it seems like that has happened in fighting terrorists but now, it be in Africa or wherever, I do think the terrorists have taken the initiative and that doesn't apply as much. Just my $.02.

[Wingnut]

@mountaineer

Ok,so at MOST they are "Americans of convenience" that only take,and give nothing.

Once again,screw them. Not our problem.

FWIW... I believe they (the family) have dual citizenship.

[mountaineer]

Just to clarify this whole Mormon/polygamy thing.

The LeBarons are a polygamous branch of Mormon. A former member is now part of a Christian ministry based in Florida. You can read about her here.

The young lady I mentioned is Lila LeBaron and the ministry is Adam's Road. Here's a FB post from the mother of two of the young men with Adam's Road, all of whom are former Mormons:

Appears to be a polygamist family with 3 moms killed by drug cartel on their way to a wedding in the LeBaron Polygamist Colony in Mexico. That is the colony that Lila LeBaron with Adam's Road is from. My heart goes out to the friends and family of what USA calls a "Mormon" family. Can't imagine what Lila herself is experiencing! We love you!! Polygamists do consider themselves Mormon since they live D&C 132 faithfully, however, the mainstream LDS church does not consider polyamists brothers in the faith today.

[sneakypete]

Generally speaking, you are correct.

These are, likely, the same people responsible for death and destruction in the USA through selling drugs and human trafficking.

It would take some reflection to figure out the best options but a wall and security forces are not the only option available.

People would scream we are violating a country's sovereignty but if we knew where an organized crime kingpin or his forces were, I would at least consider an airstrike like what we did to Gaddafi under Reagan.

That might open up a whole can of worms but still, if I were in National Security,  I might run it by the cabinet along with destroying drug crop fields or the labs.  I am just saying, it might be worth consideration especially if it looks like Mexico is lax on this, smugglers' hideaways too.

Maybe total fantasy.

@sneakypete

That said, we have some working-realationship with Mexico and fairly transparent in that aspect meaning, we will be able to know what we did through FOIA and so on.

@TomSea

It sounds good,but it would be an act of war to send in air strikes against a country that we are not at war with.

IMHO,what we need to know is take care of our own problems,and AFAP,allow other nations to take care of theirs.

There are other things we could do to influence the Mexicans to take on the cartels,though. One would be to offer to enter into a treaty with them to wipe out the drug cartels that cause so much trouble in both of our countries. Yeah,the Dims would scream bloody murder because you just KNOW they are getting a cut,but with any luck at all a few of them would stroke out. Win/win.

[sneakypete]

FWIW... I believe they (the family) have dual citizenship.

@The Ghost

Which means to me they want to take from and obligate America,but don't want to pay our taxes and contribute anything in return. Screw them and the donkeys they ride on.

[Neverdul]

Just as I suspect, the anti Mormon on the TOS is having a field day: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/3791617/posts

I recall once asking one of them, Elsie I think, what church he belonged to. The reason I wanted to know was that if I were ever of the mind to go to a church, his would be the first one to cross off my list.

[Fishrrman]

The founder of the LeBaron clan was excommunicated by the Salt Lake church for polygamy (officially forbidden by the LDS church since 1890), and moved to Mexico.

Also, Mitt Romney's father (George) was originally from an offshoot of the LeBaron community. See:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_W._Romney#Early_life_and_background

[Neverdul]

@The Ghost

Which means to me they want to take from and obligate America,but don't want to pay our taxes and contribute anything in return. Screw them and the donkeys they ride on.

FWIW - if you have dual American and Mexican citizenship and are living in Mexico, as a US citizen you are still required to report income and file US tax returns on all world income. If all your income is earned in Mexico, you may be able to benefit under the US/Mexican tax treaty provisions so you can claim foreign tax credits on your US tax return for any income taxes you had to pay on the same income in Mexico thus avoiding double taxation on the same income. However if any of your income is sourced in the US, say from a business or property or other sources of income originating in the US, you will pay US taxes on that income.

[mountaineer]

I have no idea whether this is true.

WHOA? Woman Murdered in Mexican Cartel Killings had Alleged Ties to NXIVM Sex Cult
November 5, 2019

...  According to The New York Post, the nine women and children slaughtered in Mexico on Monday were part of a Mormon community with ties to the alleged sex-cult Nxivm.

The outpost Mormon community in Mexico is where underlings of Nxivm leader Keith Raniere recruited young women to work as nannies in an upstate New York compound run by the accused cult — suggesting at least in part that the jobs would get the girls away from their home region’s drug violence, according a man hired by Raniere to produce a documentary about the group. ...   DC Patriot

[sneakypete]

FWIW - if you have dual American and Mexican citizenship and are living in Mexico, as a US citizen you are still required to report income and file US tax returns on all world income.

@Neverdul

Nice theory. Who is going to enforce it,and how will they do it?

If all your income is earned in Mexico, you may be able to benefit under the US/Mexican tax treaty provisions so you can claim foreign tax credits on your US tax return for any income taxes you had to pay on the same income in Mexico thus avoiding double taxation on the same income.

Mexicans living in Mexico have a hard time earning enough to pay taxes. I just don't see these Mormons earning a lot of money there.

However if any of your income is sourced in the US, say from a business or property or other sources of income originating in the US, you will pay US taxes on that income.

I guess you could if it came up on the IRS radar.

[mountaineer]

I don't know about the Mexican polygamist Mormons, but recall that the ones in the US, e.g., Colorado City, Arizona, managed to avoid taxation by all going on welfare.

WashPost article on the history of fundamentalist (polygamist) Mormons in Mexico: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2019/11/05/how-mexico-became-home-communities-mormons/

[Wingnut]

I don't know about the Mexican polygamist Mormons, but recall that the ones in the US, e.g., Colorado City, Arizona, managed to avoid taxation by all going on welfare.

WashPost article on the history of fundamentalist (polygamist) Mormons in Mexico: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2019/11/05/how-mexico-became-home-communities-mormons/

Looks like those dead women and children will be off the welfare rolls.