Mexico-Watch Thread

[sneakypete]

The Chinese are supplying drugs (fenatanyl, designer sh*t) and precursor chemicals to the cartels, anyway, so shutting all that down would likely be bad for the Pelosi family bottom line.

@Smokin Joe

Ok,I didn't know that. THANKS!

[TomSea]

Yes, this guy in this article does NOT want to move. I can see having somewhat established businesses there but still.

Cousin of Mexican cartel victims calls for help from Trump, says family was not caught in crossfire
By Julia Musto | Fox News

Daniel Lebaron, a cousin of Rhonita Maria Miller, says his family would not leave their home in Sonora, Mexico,...

In a phone interview with "America's Newsroom's" Bill Hemmer, Lebaron said that the family was still trying to sort out why it happened.

"We thought it might have been mistaken identity," he told Hemmer. "Now we've had quite a bit of evidence that once the attack began, they continued it, knowing that there were women and children in the vehicles. So, as far as why it happened — we're not sure yet."

https://www.foxnews.com/media/cousin-drug-cartel-ambush-victims-mexico-president-trump

The businesses probably do well but would not be attractive  to sell. It was a big deal growing up to go hunt not far from this area (maybe 250 miles away so quite a distance). To hunt duck on their migratory path in the winter. I would leave that property at a minimum. Weddings always seem to leave people vulnerable. Film it on video.

..;.  confusion over which cartel was responsible
https://www.foxnews.com/world/mexican-cartel-ambush-suspect-cartel-investigation

   

[mountaineer]

The cartels of Juarez, Mexico, are at war with a group of Mormons, some of whom are related to Mitt Romney. We went there to document the conflict, meet Romney's Mormon family, and find out more about how US policy is impacting the war on drugs.
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[sneakypete]

The cartels of Juarez, Mexico, are at war with a group of Mormons, some of whom are related to Mitt Romney. We went there to document the conflict, meet Romney's Mormon family, and find out more about how US policy is impacting the war on drugs.
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@mountaineer

Are Mormons even armed? I obviously don't know much about them,but I suspect that they are pacifists and against fighting back.

[TomSea]

The cartels of Juarez, Mexico, are at war with a group of Mormons, some of whom are related to Mitt Romney. We went there to document the conflict, meet Romney's Mormon family, and find out more about how US policy is impacting the war on drugs.
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@mountaineer
Yes, that's a good watch.

There is a lot of extremely negative news to watch on Mexico, I mean just down right sleazy snuff stories, that video is good.  There is that show "Narcos", I've never watched it. I've read borderlandbeat.com on occasion. Overall, I don't think it's suitable but I did check it today, there has already been a similar instance in the state of Jalisco down there, meaning ambushing a convoy of SUVs so borderlandbeat gives some news we would not normally see.  They report some important stories  you won't see in the mainstream, not important enough for the American press but they also report on gore, be forewarned.

I must have used my free articles from Wapo already but was able to read this next one on my phone:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the_americas/how-mexicos-cartel-wars-shattered-american-mormons-peaceful-but-wary-existence/2019/11/07/92d42cdc-0021-11ea-8341-cc3dce52e7de_story.html?wpisrc=nl_most&wpmm=1

In talking about their state of Sonora:

“The fact is that the state didn’t provide law and order, but the cartel did,” said Adam Langford, a two-time mayor of the municipality.

Sometimes, the men at the checkpoints would apologize after stopping them.

“They would say, ‘Sorry guys, we are just guarding our territory,’ ” said Kenneth Miller, 32.

Then, the article even mentions some of the first Mormons came as long ago as the 1880s, so a very long time.

The article seems to say that each state's Cartels are at each others throats.

Oh, and per @sneakypete  the above article does mention firearms but inconclusively.

The place is a mess, it will happen again if things don't change. The Mennonites are certainly down there as well, they are German or Dutch who came a long, long time ago as well. Well, in fact, they are kind of like the Amish. 

And I was able to read the "reader version" of that Wapo story now. It's reasonably good.

[bigheadfred]

@mountaineer

Are Mormons even armed? I obviously don't know much about them,but I suspect that they are pacifists and against fighting back.

Pssst...hey Pete...I am a Mormon AND a convicted killer....Don't tell anyone.

[Gefn]

This story is so sad. How can anyone murder babies and children?

[sneakypete]

Pssst...hey Pete...I am a Mormon AND a convicted killer....Don't tell anyone.

@bigheadfred

Thanks,Fred.

But did you use a gun,and is gun ownership common amongst Mormons?

[roamer_1]

Australia? That's a low blow. 

Women blow and men chunder... 

[roamer_1]

Are Mormons even armed? I obviously don't know much about them,but I suspect that they are pacifists and against fighting back.

The ones up here are... Of course, between hunting and hiking, you've got to be an idiot to venture forth w/o a weapon or two or three...

I would think that just as likely down there in Colorado where you are @sneakypete , Mormon or not...

[TomSea]

It's sad what goes on but Laura Ingraham reported on some of what goes on down there  years ago and sadly, the basics are not new here. Maybe just the style of attack.

[bigheadfred]

@bigheadfred

Thanks,Fred.

But did you use a gun,and is gun ownership common amongst Mormons?

Interesting question. All of my family on both sides are armed to the teeth. Mormons have it in their system to keep at least two years worth of food in storage. A guy I used to work for told me he advised his dad to get at least one gun for home defense. His dad is a white collar type and asked why? His son told him if the SHTF and people know you are a Mormon they will be coming for your food. So this kid wasn't raised around guns, but as he grew older his friends and other business associates were. So he got into guns. thus the advice to his dad. Some people are raised with guns. Some aren't.

One day I was working in that cabinet shop and I heard gunfire outside. I poked my head out and the boss and the bidder had a clay pigeon thrower set up and were shooting with a new .12 Remington semi shotgun. They couldn't hit shit. I asked them if I could give it a try? Bang...bang...two dead 'birds". They asked me the last time I had shot a gun? About ten years.

I told them it is simple. You only point a gun at something you do intend to shoot, you only pull the trigger with the full intent to kill, and have the full confidence with that intent you kill.

I don't have any guns.

No, I didn't use a gun. I used my sharp knife. You know the story. I have two knives. A sharp one to defend myself. And a dull one for people I don't like.

[bigheadfred]

Women blow and men chunder... 

Yeah. When I said low blow you got to land down under. 

[bigheadfred]

It's sad what goes on but Laura Ingraham reported on some of what goes on down there  years ago and sadly, the basics are not new here. Maybe just the style of attack.

I would venture there is a whole lot more terror and murder (by the cartels) going on in Mexico than people here would ever hear. None of the "small-town" violence (by the cartels) is going to even be reported to the more regional authorities or newspeople down there.

[sneakypete]

 

 

I don't have any guns.

Ok,but it has nothing to do with being a Mormon. Thanks!

No, I didn't use a gun. I used my sharp knife. You know the story. I have two knives. A sharp one to defend myself. And a dull one for people I don't like.

Yeah,I understand,but I prefer a piece of pipe. We all have our preferences.
 

[sneakypete]

I would venture there is a whole lot more terror and murder (by the cartels) going on in Mexico than people here would ever hear. None of the "small-town" violence (by the cartels) is going to even be reported to the more regional authorities or newspeople down there.

@bigheadfred

That's my best guess,too. Nobody is going to do anything about it anyhow,so why bother to report it and make yourself a target?

[TomSea]

As the article posted shows, it was even mild in some ways, only about 15 years ago. Now, I think there's in many ways, a widespread uneasiness, even spreading up here to the US with Mexicans. Not the usual cheeriness of past years. A real nightmare...

[bigheadfred]

As the article posted shows, it was even mild in some ways, only about 15 years ago. Now, I think there's in many ways, a widespread uneasiness, even spreading up here to the US with Mexicans. Not the usual cheeriness of past years. A real nightmare...

I have a friend here who's mom is in Mexico. Not sure of the location, but he said on his last visit it was weird. No people hanging out on the streets. Everyone went from a to b with no lingering. Before he said it was nice. People in the parks, hanging out, window shopping, gossiping, friendly. Now he said it is all fear.

[TomSea]

The Epoch Times:

LA Times, NY Times Ripped on Social Media Over Mexico Massacre Stories

The Los Angeles Times was castigated by social media users for a story that seemed to blame the victims of cartel violence in Mexico for the killings of nine American citizens while the New York Times was criticized for calling the group “religious fundamentalists.”

...

But the Los Angeles Times later posted a story that critics said appeared to blame the victims for the violence.

“U.S. victims in Mexico massacre were tied to family with a long history of violence,” read the LA Times headline.

   LA Times, NY Times Ripped on Social Media Over Mexico Massacre Stories

AMLO, Lopez Obrador said at one of his statements this past week that "declaring war had already been tried and did not work",  actually, that's just stating a fact and is probably somewhat true. Could a more effective effort been made? That's a question for the experts.

"Machismo", real "thuggery" imho, is what the tradition of the "Bandido" type has been about....Emilio "El Indio" Fernandez, was a famous actor, was in a Kung Fu episode, "El Brujo" (the witch) or something like that... To me, unfortunately, it seems like a lot of this cartel stuff is truly an extension of that kind of "legend" except, now it is out-of-control.



I said in this forum a few weeks ago, even Pancho Villa to me, just seems basically like a sort of thug.  <---- at least a lot of the time, maybe not always.

Historic note, Villa apparently did not like Chinese, another historic note, Chinese supposedly way back in the 1920s, in fact, below says from 1900-20, smuggled opium, alcohol and other from Mexico to the USA and this is a bit where this practice took hold.

https://www.alipac.us/f12/border-patrol-agents-find-tunnel-el-paso-connects-city-storied-past-355237/

Nothing is really going to pull Mexico out of this as it stands now, I don't see how anything really can for at least, the next 20 years or so.

And that Machismo, that's been ingrained in the system, the "disappeared women", that's been going on some time before the current very severe problems.

[TomSea]

Okay, this is from October 2017, 2 years ago but still. It shows one this kind of stuff is going on fairly frequently. I have no idea how this eventually worked out. I have read a fully-Mennonite-news website before.

3 men, apparently Mennonites, killed in northern Mexico
By Associated Press
Monday, October 23rd, 2017 at 8:30am

MEXICO CITY — Three men have been found shot to death in the northern Mexico state of Chihuahua, and prosecutors say they appear to be members of the state’s Mennonite community.

The state prosecutors’ office said Sunday the bodies were found in the cab of a pickup truck with New Mexico plates in an area known as Campo Menonita 35. The men had been shot multiple times.

While the bodies have not been identified, the office said their appearance suggested they were Mennonites.

More at: https://www.abqjournal.com/1081832/3-men-apparently-mennonites-killed-in-northern-mexico.html

http://mennoworld.org/

https://themennonite.org/

All of these folks should consider pulling up stakes from Mexico, imho.

[sneakypete]

The Los Angeles Times was castigated by social media users for a story that seemed to blame the victims of cartel violence in Mexico for the killings of nine American citizens while the New York Times was criticized for calling the group “religious fundamentalists.”

These people consider themselves to be "religious fundamentalists",so how is it a slur to refer to them as such?

The Epoch Times:

AMLO, Lopez Obrador said at one of his statements this past week that "declaring war had already been tried and did not work",  actually, that's just stating a fact and is probably somewhat true. Could a more effective effort been made? That's a question for the experts.

Who declared war on whom? I find it hard to believe the fundie Mormons declared war on Mexico,or the Mexico government declared war on them. The Mexico government already has more problems than they know how to deal with,so taking on a bunch of gringo pacifists does not seem like something it is likely they would do.

Nothing is really going to pull Mexico out of this as it stands now, I don't see how anything really can for at least, the next 20 years or so.

I know of one thing that would help. If they could get their honest citizens who want to work and improve themselves at  home and get them to work with the government to stand up to the cartels and kill their asses off,most of Mexico's problems would instantly disappear. NO nation can hope to survive when their honest citizens flee,and leave only the professional criminal classes and the lazy trash behind.

 The problem for both the US AND for Mexico is the illegal aliens coming here from Mexico are NOT coming here because they want to be Americans. They come here for the economic opportunities and the chance to raise their children in a safe atmosphere while remaining Mexicans.

[TomSea]

These people consider themselves to be "religious fundamentalists",so how is it a slur to refer to them as such?

Well, I don't normally think of Mormons as "fundamentalists" say as we think of Baptists in that way. Yes, fundamentalists is also use to describe "Islamic Fundamentalists" but usually you will hear something linking those people to Islam.

Who declared war on whom? I find it hard to believe the fundie Mormons declared war on Mexico,or the Mexico government declared war on them. The Mexico government already has more problems than they know how to deal with,so taking on a bunch of gringo pacifists does not seem like something it is likely they would do.

The government of Mexico had a declaration of war on Cartels, their former President Vicente Fox OR one of the others, that's who declared war on the cartels, NOT the Mormons.

I know of one thing that would help. If they could get their honest citizens who want to work and improve themselves at  home and get them to work with the government to stand up to the cartels and kill their asses off,most of Mexico's problems would instantly disappear. NO nation can hope to survive when their honest citizens flee,and leave only the professional criminal classes and the lazy trash behind.

 The problem for both the US AND for Mexico is the illegal aliens coming here from Mexico are NOT coming here because they want to be Americans. They come here for the economic opportunities and the chance to raise their children in a safe atmosphere while remaining Mexicans.

@sneakypete :


I'm not sure if it was here, I cited Sylvia Longmire, she said this back in 2011, 2009, I forget which but even though some of the actors change, she pretty much nails down what is going on in this conflict and the origin of the problem.


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http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,351545.0.html

[TomSea]

I've said it before and then, I reflected, at least for me, it's hyperbole, probably an exaggeration to say the Cartels are as bad as ISIS... but they certainly are a very tremendous evil, they are probably in the same ballpark and if they traffic fentanyl and Americans and others even OD from that and that is a high number into the thousands, maybe it is an apt comparison at that. It would really take study.

Mexican cartels 'worse than ISIS': massacre victims' kin urge U.S. help
Lizbeth Diaz

Angry kin of nine American citizens massacred in a suspected gangland ambush in northern Mexico urged the government to accept U.S. help to destroy drug cartels that one grieving relative described as being "as bad or worse than ISIS."

Funerals of the three mothers and six children began to be held in Mexico on Thursday after the government said they were caught in the crossfire of a territorial feud between the Juarez Cartel and its rival the Sinaloa Cartel on Monday.

The victims belonged to three families of dual U.S.-Mexican citizenship born to breakaway Mormon communities founded in the north of Mexico several decades ago, and mourners came from thousands of miles to pay their last respects.

Read more at: https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/world/mexican-cartels-worse-than-isis-massacre-victims-kin-urge-us-help/ar-BBWtax7

The article above mentions Senator Tom Cotton who seemed to go on a hawkish rant this past week if people didn't hear about it.

Arizona border sheriff: Mexican drug cartels pose ISIS-like threat
By Charles Creitz | Fox News

Mexican drug cartels like the one that murdered nine Americans in an ambush on Monday post a threat similar to that of terror groups such as the Islamic State (ISIS), according to the sheriff of an Arizona county that sits on the southern U.S. border.

Cochise County Sheriff Mark Dannels appeared on "Tucker Carlson Tonight" on Tuesday and said it has been a troubling time for the community in the area.

"Think about what ISIS does and think about what the cartels do. They terrorize," Dannels said. "They kill both their own citizens -- they kill Americans, as demonstrated last night."

More at: https://www.foxnews.com/media/arizona-border-sheriff-cartel-murders-mexico-isis   

ISIS-like threat. I can go along with that. That might be an apt description. Well, the gore down there, dismembering and beheadings certainly does call ISIS to mind.  A lot of innocents besides this case,  are probably killed too.  I've read that the cartels kidnap and families never see their loved-ones again.  So, it's not just about the drugs.

[TomSea]

Prof. Steve Hanke
@steve_hanke
The Mexican police officer who arrested #ElChapo's son was shot in broad daylight, over 150 times. This is the hydra that #AMLO & his predecessors have created. #DrugCartels are untouchable in #Mexico. AMLO's indifference allows cartels to reign supreme.

https://twitter.com/steve_hanke/status/1192882450231431168

Posting Prof. Hanke's tweet (he worked for Reagan and appears to be a super-smart guy), RT or posting does not mean endorsement but, I'd say something constructive needs to be done....

Some or all of these should be done.

5 actions Trump can take NOW to reclaim our border from the Mexican cartels
Daniel Horowitz · November 7, 2019   

Try to think of any other foreign entity – a country, terrorist group, or criminal group – that devastates our country as much as the Mexican cartels. They control our border – both sides of it – and have operatives in every state fueling the entire drug crisis, gangs, crime, and an endless flow of illegal immigrants who cause a massive fiscal drain and cultural transformation of our communities. Why have we gone to war with everyone but them? Will that change in light of the murder of Americans by the cartels?

It’s good that there is finally some media and policy focus on the Mexican cartels. Sadly, it came at the cost of an American family living in a Mormon community in Mexico. Three mothers of the LeBaron family were driving in three separate SUVs in two locations eight miles from each other in the Sonora province, just 50 miles from the international border with New Mexico, on Monday. Cartel gunmen opened fire on the three vehicles and then torched them, killing and burning the three mothers, as well as six children, including twin babies. Six other children were wounded, and there are reports some of them were initially kidnapped but managed to escape.

https://www.conservativereview.com/news/5-actions-trump-can-take-now-reclaim-border-mexican-cartels/

The killing of one of the police who arrested the son of El Chapo is an absolute disgrace and this kind of vengeance is not uncommon at all in those wars down there.

These cartels should be wiped off the face of the earth indeed.

In Colombia I think the people who finally started to get Escobar and his cartel back in the '80s/'90s were called the "Pepes". These were people done wrong by Escobar's criminal enterprise.  There's no limit to the evil of these people, I think Escobar actually bombed a plane to kill one person. That was really bad. It's history now but  you can see, these folks in Mexico are just as bad.

[TomSea]

The Federalist:

It’s Time For The United States To Wage War On Mexican Drug Cartels
John Daniel Davidson

The American family gunned down Monday in northern Mexico should be a wake-up call for U.S. policymakers that the spiraling cartel violence in Mexico is not going to remain south of the Rio Grande, and that the time has come to fight back against the cartels—unilaterally, if need be.

The brazen daylight ambush, in which at least six children and three women from a Mormon community near the U.S.-Mexico border were killed, is the latest flashpoint in the growing instability of the Mexican state and the country’s descent into warlordism.

Simply put, some areas of Mexico are under the de facto control of drug cartels. Last month, hundreds of gunmen with the Sinaloa cartel besieged the city of Culiacan after Mexican National Guard troops arrested one of the sons of the infamous drug kingpin Joaquín “El Chapo” Guzmán Loera. In a stunning display of coordination and overwhelming force, cartel gunmen eventually forced the military to release El Chapo’s son and surrender, a decision Mexican President Andrés Manuel López Obrador later defended.

Read more at: https://thefederalist.com/2019/11/06/its-time-for-the-united-states-to-wage-war-on-mexican-drug-cartels/

I read one article saying this family was more Mexican than American. That might be true but I don't think that matters, really.

A caravan of vehicles with relatives and friends arrive for the funerals of slain members of the Mexican-American Mormon families, in Bavispe, Sonora state, Mexico, on Nov. 6, 2019. (Reuters/Jose Luis Gonzalez)

Americas
Mourners Travel With Armed Escort to Funerals for Americans Killed in Mexican Cartel Massacre
By Petr Svab
November 7, 2019 Updated: November 7, 2019

Dozens of people traveled to a secluded, mountainous area of Sonora in northern Mexico to attend the funerals of nine Americans shot dead by cartel gunmen on Nov. 4.

Escorted by Mexico’s National Guard, the train of SUVs lit the meandering road on the night of Nov. 6, heading for the municipality of Bavispe, where the services will be held the next day for some of the three women and six children slain.

“We came prepared to sleep on the floor, in tents. Whatever is needed to support the families who died in this terrorist act,” said Alex LeBaron, a former congressman and cousin of one of the women, Rhonita Miller.

Read more at: https://www.theepochtimes.com/mourners-travel-with-armed-escort-to-funerals-for-americans-killed-in-mexican-cartel-massacre_3140082.html

There might be photos out there showing a real military presence at the funerals, interestingly enough.  I saw some.