House approves Trump impeachment procedures

[mystery-ak]

House approves Trump impeachment procedures
By Cristina Marcos - 10/31/19 11:29 AM EDT

The House on Thursday took its first major step toward making Donald Trump just the third president in history to be impeached, approving procedures for an inquiry likely to burst into full public view in weeks.

The measure, which establishes rules for open hearings and the questioning of witnesses by members and staff, passed in a 232-196 party-line vote with just two Democrats voting against it and no Republicans supporting it.

The Democrats who voted no were Reps. Collin Peterson (Minn.) and Jefferson Van Drew (N.J.), who both represent districts won by Trump in the 2016 election.

more
https://thehill.com/homenews/house/468317-house-approves-trump-impeachment-procedures

[mystery-ak]

Trump slams 'witch hunt' after House impeachment vote
https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/468322-trump-slams-witch-hunt-after-house-impeachment-vote

[mystery-ak]

Two House Democrats break with party on impeachment vote

Moderate Reps. Collin Peterson (Minn.) and Jeff Van Drew (N.J.), who represent swing districts Trump won in 2016, opted against the measure, which passed 232-196.

https://thehill.com/homenews/house/468325-two-house-democrats-break-with-party-on-impeachment-vote

[austingirl]

I'm sure those two had permission from Mrs. Botox.

[Jazzhead]

A party-line vote to "legitimize" Schiff's kangaroo court.   The votes to consider impeachment of Presidents Nixon and Clinton both earned significant bipartisan support.   

This is partisan political theater, not a serious attempt to carry out the House's responsibility.   I hope House Republicans will test Schiff time and again and make him exercise his "discretion" to deny witnesses favorable to the accused and limit questioning by the President's defenders.    The task with political theater is to write a rousing second act.   Let's expose this sham,  just as the Deltas did with Dean Wormer.   

[Bigun]

So there is still no legitimate impeachment inquiry authorized in the house.

[skeeter]

Does this Hill article bother to report that these 'rules' stipulate Nadler can change them later at his own whim, or that none of the evidence so far developed is subject to them retroactively, in other words, won't be subject to due process until they come before the committee, at which time they can be vetoed by a partisan chairman?

[conservativevoter]

How do they think this would carry with the voters?  Really. 

Questioning not allowed by the defense, with no attorneys to represent them in any way.  It is such a waste of the voter's tax money,  I can NOT view the Supreme Court allowing this, should it get that far.   

[IsailedawayfromFR]

This will be an absolute sweep for the GOP in 2020.

The almost total bloc vote by the Dems have demonstrated to all Americans that the party has an absence of patriots who can rise above the partisanship and do what is right for the country.

[Snarknado]

All these weeks of delay had the sole purpose of making sure every dem was on board and desperate efforts to find even one repub vote. The clock ran out but there was no turning back, they had to settle for the consolation prize.

I'm thinking more and more that it's all a sham. They know if they try to take anything to the Senate based on these egregious rules, it will be their underhanded process that's on trial as much as Trump.

[Jazzhead]

I think the crux of whether this process is fair will be whether Schiff and Nadler will allow the Republicans to call Hunter Biden as a witness.   We all know the answer to that,  yet it is crucial to determine whether the President's interest in Ukraine investigating Burisma was for narrow political purposes or for reasons of interest to the United States.

Another thing that needs to be pinned down is what the quid was for the President's quo.   I don't believe the infamous phone call addressed the matter of military aid at all.  Instead,  Trump and Zelensky talked about the possibility of a face to face meeting - that is, a photo op that would benefit Zelensky politically.    It is one thing to ask Zelensky to investigate the Bidens and Crowdstrike as a condition of receiving military aid appropriated by Congress,  and quite another to establish that condition in exchange for a photo op. 

Of course, as we all know,  the military aid was received (in a complete reversal of Obama's policy of only providing Ukraine with blankets and MREs),  the photo op with Zelensky took place,  the Ukrainians never investigated the Bidens, and the text of the phone call was released for all to read.    The Dems are willfully acting as blind men describing the elephant.   Take off the blinders, and look at the whole elephant - no crime was committed, and no cover-up has taken place.     

[Formerly Once-Ler]

I'm sure those two had permission from Mrs. Botox.

Agreed.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

Another thing that needs to be pinned down is what the quid was for the President's quo.   I don't believe the infamous phone call addressed the matter of military aid at all.  Instead,  Trump and Zelensky talked about the possibility of a face to face meeting - that is, a photo op that would benefit Zelensky politically.    It is one thing to ask Zelensky to investigate the Bidens and Crowdstrike as a condition of receiving military aid appropriated by Congress,  and quite another to establish that condition in exchange for a photo op. 

@Jazzhead
As President Trump says "READ THE TRANSCRIPT!"  Zelensky says "we are almost ready to buy more Javelins from the United States for defence purposes." Trump replies "I would like you to do us a favor though..."

Arms for dirt.

[Jazzhead]

@Jazzhead
As President Trump says "READ THE TRANSCRIPT!"  Zelensky says "we are almost ready to buy more Javelins from the United States for defence purposes." Trump replies "I would like you to do us a favor though..."

Arms for dirt.

Thanks for pointing that out, @Once-Ler.   I hadn't read the transcript in a couple of weeks,  and had overlooked that line.   But note, too, that the "favor" requested was with respect to the Crowdstrike issue, not the Bidens, and Crowdstrike related to a matter under active Justice Department investigation.  Crowdstrike was not political "dirt".    I note, also, that Zelensky expressed a desire to purchase "more" Javelins.   Was he referring to the military aid appropriated by Congress,  or was he asking for additional aid?    I don't know the answer to that - do you?   When did Congress vote to appropriate the military aid,  did it explicitly include Javelins, and was the fact of that appropriation known to the Ukrainians at the time of the phone call?   

I agree with you that arbitrarily denying Ukraine military aid duly appropriated by Congress would not be kosher.   But it is perfectly kosher to demand a quid pro quo for something new, whether it be a photo-op (as was extensively discussed on the call)  or "more Javelins" above and beyond that appropriated by Congress.    Do you know what the facts and timeline were?   

[skeeter]

@Jazzhead
As President Trump says "READ THE TRANSCRIPT!"  Zelensky says "we are almost ready to buy more Javelins from the United States for defence purposes." Trump replies "I would like you to do us a favor though..."

Arms for dirt.

Thats right, arms for dirt.

And to hell with what Zelensky says. What does he know.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

Thanks for pointing that out, @Once-Ler.   I hadn't read the transcript in a couple of weeks,  and had overlooked that line.   But note, too, that the "favor" requested was with respect to the Crowdstrike issue, not the Bidens, and Crowdstrike related to a matter under active Justice Department investigation.  Crowdstrike was not political "dirt".

Later in the same conversation ..."The other thing, There's a  lot of talk about Biden's son, that Eiden stopped the prosecution and a lot of people want to find out about that  so whatever you can do with the Attorney General would be  great.  Biden went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution so if you can look into it ...  It  sounds horrible to me." https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Unclassified09.2019.pdf

See that elipses (...)? that is where Vindmann says the President was talking about videos of Biden but the "word for word" transcript doesn't include it.  That could be important in proving a cover up.

I note, also, that Zelensky expressed a desire to purchase "more" Javelins.   Was he referring to the military aid appropriated by Congress,  or was he asking for additional aid?    I don't know the answer to that - do you?   When did Congress vote to appropriate the military aid,  did it explicitly include Javelins, and was the fact of that appropriation known to the Ukrainians at the time of the phone call?   

I agree with you that arbitrarily denying Ukraine military aid duly appropriated by Congress would not be kosher.   But it is perfectly kosher to demand a quid pro quo for something new, whether it be a photo-op (as was extensively discussed on the call)  or "more Javelins" above and beyond that appropriated by Congress.    Do you know what the facts and timeline were?   

I don't know.  I expect it will become clearer with public hearings.

[Wingnut]

I don't know.  I expect it will become clearer with public hearings.

Clear as mud.

[skeeter]

Clear as mud.

Never mind the "crime", its the "coverup".

Doncha know.

[Jazzhead]

Never mind the "crime", its the "coverup".

Doncha know.

Releasing the transcript of the phone call is an odd way to conduct a "cover-up".

And Trump explicitly expressed to Zelensky his concern that "Biden stopped the prosecution" into Burisma's corruption.    That was an act taken in Biden's capacity as Vice President.   Why wouldn't that act be of objective interest to the United States rather than mere digging for political "dirt"?   

[Snarknado]

If the use of ellipses constitutes an illegal coverup, I could be in big trouble...

[skeeter]

Releasing the transcript of the phone call is an odd way to conduct a "cover-up".

And Trump explicitly expressed to Zelensky his concern that "Biden stopped the prosecution" into Burisma's corruption.    That was an act taken in Biden's capacity as Vice President.   Why wouldn't that act be of objective interest to the United States rather than mere digging for political "dirt"?   

One could say its actually incumbent upon a president to investigate political corruption on the part of US officials overseas.

But rats see life 'through the looking glass'. Off with Trump's head.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

Releasing the transcript of the phone call is an odd way to conduct a "cover-up".

The transcript was released after the whistleblower came forward.

And Trump explicitly expressed to Zelensky his concern that "Biden stopped the prosecution" into Burisma's corruption.    That was an act taken in Biden's capacity as Vice President.   Why wouldn't that act be of objective interest to the United States rather than mere digging for political "dirt"?   

It could be.  It is strange that it only became an issue after Biden announced he was running and Hillary's and Obama's corruption remains unimportant to Trump.  But sure Trump, with his big heart for the world and unswerving commitment to rooting out corruption in Ukraine could explain this.

Ukraine First
Trump - 2020

[Formerly Once-Ler]

If the use of ellipses constitutes an illegal coverup, I could be in big trouble...

They will be the 18 missing minutes of tape for this impeachment.

[Bigun]

The transcript was released after the whistleblower came forward.It could be.  It is strange that it only became an issue after Biden announced he was running and Hillary's and Obama's corruption remains unimportant to Trump.  But sure Trump, with his big heart for the world and unswerving commitment to rooting out corruption in Ukraine could explain this.

Ukraine First
Trump - 2020

There is no "whistle blower" you dunce!  Just one more in a long line of Deep State lemmings!

[Jazzhead]

The transcript was released after the whistleblower came forward.

Of course.  It was released in reaction to the whistleblower, in an act of transparency.   The President felt he had nothing to hide.   And the Ukrainians are on record as saying they were not pressured.   And it is a matter of historical record that (i) the appropriated military aid was provided, (ii) the photo-op Zelensky wanted with Trump was provided, and (iii) the Ukrainians did not investigate the Bidens.   

This is truly an example of the Democrats in Cloudcuckooland.