Author Topic: Mormons, uneasy with Trump, are stuck with the GOP  (Read 1231 times)

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Offline corbe

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Mormons, uneasy with Trump, are stuck with the GOP
« on: September 29, 2019, 04:11:49 pm »
Mormons, uneasy with Trump, are stuck with the GOP

by Jeffrey Cimmino

September 29, 2019 12:00 AM

 
Most Mormons remain committed to conservative values but uneasy with President Trump's ascendance, resulting in a complicated relationship with the modern Republican Party.

The Democratic Party is not presenting a viable alternative. Quietly, it is losing purchase with Mormons. The retirement of New Mexico Sen. Tom Udall raises the prospect that the next Congress could have no Democratic Mormons, if freshman Utah Rep. Ben McAdams loses his reelection bid, which is likely to be challenging.

So, Mormons are stuck with the GOP. But it's an awkward fit. Trump’s tough stance on immigration, his willingness to insult other candidates, and his character flaws have all made it difficult for Mormons to embrace him.

"They expect decency in public life and in their personal lives," Evan McMullin, a Mormon independent presidential candidate in 2016 and the founder of the conservative advocacy organization Stand Up Republic, told the Washington Examiner. "They're sensitive to the persecution of immigrants and religious minorities and they expect honor in their leaders."

<..snip..>

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/mormons-uneasy-with-trump-are-stuck-with-the-gop
No government in the 12,000 years of modern mankind history has led its people into anything but the history books with a simple lesson, don't let this happen to you.

Offline corbe

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Re: Mormons, uneasy with Trump, are stuck with the GOP
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2019, 04:13:37 pm »
   Still doesn't explain to me Sen. Lee's abrupt 180 after Romney was elected the junior Senator of Utah. 
   Obviously I'm missing something here. 
No government in the 12,000 years of modern mankind history has led its people into anything but the history books with a simple lesson, don't let this happen to you.

Offline dfwgator

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Re: Mormons, uneasy with Trump, are stuck with the GOP
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2019, 04:39:52 pm »
Screw 'em. We don't want them.

Offline roamer_1

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Re: Mormons, uneasy with Trump, are stuck with the GOP
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2019, 04:42:20 pm »
Screw 'em. We don't want them.

That is a GIANT mistake.

Offline Bigun

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Re: Mormons, uneasy with Trump, are stuck with the GOP
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2019, 06:18:57 pm »
Screw 'em. We don't want them.

Thanks!  Happy to know how you feel about it.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Sanguine

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Re: Mormons, uneasy with Trump, are stuck with the GOP
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2019, 06:52:03 pm »
Screw 'em. We don't want them.

Yes, we do. 

Offline LadyLiberty

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Re: Mormons, uneasy with Trump, are stuck with the GOP
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2019, 07:02:16 pm »

Offline PeteS in CA

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Re: Mormons, uneasy with Trump, are stuck with the GOP
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2019, 07:44:53 pm »
For Mormons there is much to be "uneasy" about with Trump. That's a revelation on the same level of the revelation that the Sun will rise in the east tomorrow AM. OTOH, there is much to like in what he has done in his time as President.

OTOH, the Dem Party has been for 2 or more decades increasingly hostile to Mormons' values. When Hillary stated that theological conservatives have to change their views, Mormons would have made her must-change list. Hillary probably would have placed most Mormons in her "Basket of Deplorables". Other than, perhaps, being more frank, Hillary is no different from most (almost all?) Dem leaders.

I'm not a Mormon, but they are facing the same moral calculation I faced in 2016 and 2020 (and well before that).
If, as anti-Covid-vaxxers claim, https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2021/robert-f-kennedy-jr-said-the-covid-19-vaccine-is-the-deadliest-vaccine-ever-made-thats-not-true/ , https://gospelnewsnetwork.org/2021/11/23/covid-shots-are-the-deadliest-vaccines-in-medical-history/ , The Vaccine is deadly, where in the US have Pfizer and Moderna hidden the millions of bodies of those who died of "vaccine injury"? Is reality a Big Pharma Shill?

Millions now living should have died. Anti-Covid-Vaxxer ghouls hardest hit.

Offline musiclady

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Re: Mormons, uneasy with Trump, are stuck with the GOP
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2019, 08:04:38 pm »
That is a GIANT mistake.

They already proudly proclaimed that they don't need or want Conservatives, so why not add Mormons (who obviously include Conservatives) to those ejected from the Republican Party?

I maintain that when all is said and done the Republican "brand" will be completely destroyed by the Trump administration.

I will stand corrected if I'm wrong................. but I highly doubt that I am.

Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

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Offline musiclady

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Re: Mormons, uneasy with Trump, are stuck with the GOP
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2019, 08:05:43 pm »
Thanks!  Happy to know how you feel about it.

The new and improved Republican Party.....   **nononono*
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline roamer_1

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Re: Mormons, uneasy with Trump, are stuck with the GOP
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2019, 08:07:32 pm »

I'm not a Mormon, but they are facing the same moral calculation I faced in 2016 and 2020 (and well before that).

I am not a Mormon either, but the Mormons by and large are indeed hard-core Conservatives, which explains to me why Tump is not so popular there- The same exists here: I have never seen a MAGA hat IRL, but the people here tend to be very Conservative, with a healthy dose of Western libertarianism (independent). And a good many of them are Mormon. And all I know are stalwarts.

Offline roamer_1

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Re: Mormons, uneasy with Trump, are stuck with the GOP
« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2019, 08:09:17 pm »
They already proudly proclaimed that they don't need or want Conservatives, so why not add Mormons (who obviously include Conservatives) to those ejected from the Republican Party?

I maintain that when all is said and done the Republican "brand" will be completely destroyed by the Trump administration.

I will stand corrected if I'm wrong................. but I highly doubt that I am.

I am right there with you @musiclady
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Offline jmyrlefuller

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Re: Mormons, uneasy with Trump, are stuck with the GOP
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2019, 09:09:46 pm »
Utah's a little different, though. They're so far to the right they could split the right-leaning vote two ways and one of the two would still win.
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Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Mormons, uneasy with Trump, are stuck with the GOP
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2019, 09:21:52 pm »
I maintain that when all is said and done the Republican "brand" will be completely destroyed by the Trump administration.

I think what's under discussion here, is how much that brand has already been destroyed.  It can be argued the brand was damaged well before the time of Trump, like back into the 80's or 90's.

If we can agree that's so, then I think it can be noted that Trump is not fully, nor even majorly responsible for this state of affairs.  It is what it is, and there's a lot that can be discussed without opening yet another front in the War.
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Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Mormons, uneasy with Trump, are stuck with the GOP
« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2019, 09:27:53 pm »
Utah's a little different, though. They're so far to the right they could split the right-leaning vote two ways and one of the two would still win.

This is true. 

My big concern this election season, along with President, is the Senate.  We have a crapton of Senate seats to protect.  I think I'm likely to lose Arizona's other seat.  McSally is very weak and she's up against an astronaut.  He's a Kook who loves gun control, so maybe Martha will pull it out despite being a squish.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Offline musiclady

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Re: Mormons, uneasy with Trump, are stuck with the GOP
« Reply #15 on: September 29, 2019, 11:06:33 pm »
I think what's under discussion here, is how much that brand has already been destroyed.  It can be argued the brand was damaged well before the time of Trump, like back into the 80's or 90's.

If we can agree that's so, then I think it can be noted that Trump is not fully, nor even majorly responsible for this state of affairs.  It is what it is, and there's a lot that can be discussed without opening yet another front in the War.

Well, as you know, with me one of the main issues is the defense of what has been called "family values."  As the Republican party lost entire control of the small government issue, it still hung onto the issues of character and morality.  Until 2016, that is.

Those of us who were pulling away from the Republican Party anyway realized that the 'leaders' of the party didn't give a rip about social conservatives.

That's still the case.  IMO, what remained of the Republican "brand" was torn to shreds in May of 2016 leaving people like me without even a tiny piece of what was left of the once "Grand Old Party."
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline skeeter

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Re: Mormons, uneasy with Trump, are stuck with the GOP
« Reply #16 on: September 29, 2019, 11:10:28 pm »
I think what's under discussion here, is how much that brand has already been destroyed.  It can be argued the brand was damaged well before the time of Trump, like back into the 80's or 90's.

If we can agree that's so, then I think it can be noted that Trump is not fully, nor even majorly responsible for this state of affairs.  It is what it is, and there's a lot that can be discussed without opening yet another front in the War.

Taking abortion, which used to be considered a foundational social conservative issue, as an example I'd say Trump has been 100% more effective than the previous republican administration, who talked a good game but did next to nothing.

I wonder why is he not at least given credit for that?

Offline Fishrrman

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Re: Mormons, uneasy with Trump, are stuck with the GOP
« Reply #17 on: September 29, 2019, 11:21:48 pm »
musiclady:
"I maintain that when all is said and done the Republican "brand" will be completely destroyed by the Trump administration."

Nonsense.
The two Bushes did as much or more to "destroy" the Republican "brand" than Mr. Trump has done or will do.

The weak-kneed Republicans and RINOs seem to be doing a bang-up job of destroying their own party, despite Mr. Trump's efforts to save it !

Offline roamer_1

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Re: Mormons, uneasy with Trump, are stuck with the GOP
« Reply #18 on: September 29, 2019, 11:23:06 pm »
Taking abortion, which used to be considered a foundational social conservative issue, as an example I'd say Trump has been 100% more effective than the previous republican administration, who talked a good game but did next to nothing.

I wonder why is he not at least given credit for that?

Meh. Moderate at best. Dubya did about the same, if not better.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/trump-is-no-pro-life-hero


Offline Bigun

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Re: Mormons, uneasy with Trump, are stuck with the GOP
« Reply #20 on: September 29, 2019, 11:31:40 pm »
Quote
Most Mormons remain committed to conservative values but uneasy with President Trump's ascendance, resulting in a complicated relationship with the modern Republican Party.

Man is that ever the truth! I'm one of them!  Like many other members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (the true name of the Church known as “Mormons” by many), I was not happy with the way things went down at the Republican National Convention in 2016.  In fact, I left the party over it after over 40 years of being in the trenches so to speak. I had held every office there is at the local level except County chair and could have had that if I had only said the word. I had been a delegate to every Republican State Convention in the State of Texas (held every two years and is the largest such convention in the world BTW) since 1988. Was once the republican nominee for state rep in my district and although I lost that race, I managed to shed enough light on the corrupt Democrat who held it that two years later he decided to git while the gitting was good and no Democrat has held that seat since.  I’ve since worked with and helped elect many good people to office at all levels from the Courthouse to the State House. I have not yet voted for Donald J. Trump but fully intend to correct that the next time I have the opportunity.

You should know that although there are a great many like me among the members, that is, by no means a certainty. In my own congregation, there are a few who would vote for the devil himself if he ran as a Democrat and many more who voted for Mitt Romney simply because he is a member. I’m not one of that group either.  I would vote for Mitt against any Democrat I’m currently aware of but he would never be my first choice for ANY office.

I’m also a man who happens to be aware of where he came from and what his forefathers sacrificed in order to bring about the United States of America and also one who cannot look at the record of his family history without feeling great shame because of what WE have let happen to the great gift that was given us.

I fully intend to spend the rest of my mortal days doing everything I can to reverse that and return this once great Republic to its rightful state and if anyone wishes to refuse to stand beside me in that fight, and I’ll assure you it WILL be a fight the likes of which you have never seen, because of the Church I belong to that is his problem and not mine.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Bigun

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Re: Mormons, uneasy with Trump, are stuck with the GOP
« Reply #21 on: September 29, 2019, 11:34:45 pm »
Utah's a little different, though. They're so far to the right they could split the right-leaning vote two ways and one of the two would still win.

The world is full of people who belong to that Church who do not reside in Utah. They are throughout the US and anyone who wants to be President is most certainly going to need them.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Mormons, uneasy with Trump, are stuck with the GOP
« Reply #22 on: September 29, 2019, 11:37:22 pm »
@Bigun Have any of your friends called you an apostate for supporting trump?  Not a sarcastic question....
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Offline roamer_1

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Re: Mormons, uneasy with Trump, are stuck with the GOP
« Reply #23 on: September 29, 2019, 11:40:43 pm »
I disagree entirely.

http://godreports.com/2017/06/trumps-policies-saving-more-babies-in-the-womb-than-any-other-president/

https://www.sba-list.org/trump-pro-life-wins

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/16/us/politics/trump-abortion-evangelicals-2020.html

Your link said basically nothing.
Yes he signed Mexico City - But then so did every president since Reagan.
Gorsuch, if he actually is pro-life, is offset by Kavanaugh who likely is not.

He is been gonna maybe defund PP, after having signed them a whopping increase...
All of which is still tied up in the courts, and failed to produce results.

Insofar as real results - Bush probably did better.

And I don't like either of them.

Offline Bigun

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Re: Mormons, uneasy with Trump, are stuck with the GOP
« Reply #24 on: September 29, 2019, 11:49:06 pm »
@Bigun Have any of your friends called you an apostate for supporting trump?  Not a sarcastic question....

No sir @Cyber Liberty!  Not a single one! But was called that by some for refusing to support Mitt in the primary in 2012.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien