CHRISTIANS WHO HATE TRUMP

[Idiot]

Pretty easy decision for me on 2020.  Trump does claim to be a Christian...I personally will not judge the man as I have that "log in my own eye".

Trump is pro- Oil & Gas....good enough for me.  The democrat candidates lined up to oppose Trump ALL want to do away with MY LIVIHOOD.  No brainer...………

I'll vote for Trump without ANY hesitation.

[roamer_1]

Thank you @roamer_1 for reminding me why I read this board.

Back atcha @FeelNoPain   

[roamer_1]

Like I said, I know and trust Jim Dobson.

We will certainly find out if he is correct, in due time.

@EdJames

I don't know Jim Dobson, but I have more than enough personal experience with his organization, which to be kind, IMHO, is often more Republican than Christian... Same with quite a few of the other big politco-religious organizations that would spring readily to mind.

Jussayin.

As to whether 'due time' matters - no, due time will be too late. However, by the same token, the powers that would need to come to bear to change the outcome at this point are not likely to occur and coalesce in time. 

[roamer_1]

It is precisely because I DO think and care so much...... for America, for truth, for integrity......that I maintain the opinions that the majority of Conservatives once shared with me.

That's right. 

[roamer_1]

[...] he is the ONLY human standing between our personal freedoms and anarchy.  Maybe, even death!!

Yeah... no worship there... Oh, the drama! 

[roamer_1]

This thread tells us exactly how!  We will argue minutiae, cast stones at the character of Trump and anyone who defends him [...]

No, @Sanguine , quite the other way around. I am not casting stones at his character - He has done that himself, over, and over, and over again. I just refuse to gloss it over because he makes the trains run on time.

And you have been on my side of the fence long enough to know that stones are cast far more often, and far more viciously from the other side.

For long years I have been called every sort of thing in the book, simply for standing upon the firm foundation I have always stood upon, and always will, whether popular or not. To suggest that Tump fans are getting the brunt of anything is an absurdity.

and argue over Bible verses and their proper interpretation and if anyone doesn't believe our fundamental and fairly unique intrepretation, they're WRONG.

It is not unique, nor is it wrong. If you care to get into it, I will be happy to oblige to the extent that Biblical study will be tolerated on this board...

[roamer_1]

James Dobson sold his soul for political power decades ago.

It is unwise to trust religious leaders who have become entrenched in politics and the power it gives them.

Politics corrupts.

I think that's right.

[roamer_1]

There are plenty of passages that deal with this common tendency, for those open minded enough to attempt to understand them.

No, there are not. Like I said upthread, I will happily get into that to the extent allowed.

I try pretty hard not to get too deep into religion here, but I will defend what the Word says.
And it in no way says not to judge in the fashion being presented herein.

[roamer_1]

The verse used upthread to excuse immoral behavior was misinterpreted.  It's not a matter of being "open minded."  It's a matter of studying and understanding what is really being said in that verse.

And it is not that we shouldn't expect integrity in a President.

That's right.

[roamer_1]

@roamer_1 I appreciate your comments and think that you are coming from a place of humility and desire to understand, even if the answer is not what you want it to be.  We disagree on this issue, not completely, but some.

LOL! Well thanks for that @Sanguine - though the answer is exactly as I see it to be. Not because I am so great a seer, rather that I have been down this road more than once and I know where it goes.

I will continue to rely upon the principles of Conservatism, and upon the Torah which defines reality, as it has served me well all these many years... And I will not move. Not one single inch.

And while I may sound otherwise, I do not mean to seem like you and I are all that far apart. I agree with you more than I don't.   

[musiclady]

No, @Sanguine , quite the other way around. I am not casting stones at his character - He has done that himself, over, and over, and over again. I just refuse to gloss it over because he makes the trains run on time.

And you have been on my side of the fence long enough to know that stones are cast far more often, and far more viciously from the other side.

For long years I have been called every sort of thing in the book, simply for standing upon the firm foundation I have always stood upon, and always will, whether popular or not. To suggest that Tump fans are getting the brunt of anything is an absurdity.

It is not unique, nor is it wrong. If you care to get into it, I will be happy to oblige to the extent that Biblical study will be tolerated on this board...

Perhaps it is, but did not used to be "unique" because very few people study Scripture deeply enough to find out what it really means.

I couldn't help but wonder if Conservatives also criticize those who look deeply into and study the Constitution to understand its full meaning.

I'm not equating, of course, the Constitution with the Word of God, but your being criticized (and others as well) for giving a clear, contextual understanding of the misused verses, strikes me as odd on a Conservative board.

I would also point out, that your comments were in response to the verse's being (mis)used to undermine those who criticize Trump for his flawed character and the need to expect more of those who aspire to be leaders.  Had they not incorrectly used the verses first there would have been no need to explain why that interpretation was incorrect.

It's not so different from those few here who claim that the Constitution supports abortion, and correcting them by explaining that their opinion is mistaken.

It was a necessary corrective to the discussion, and I very much appreciate your posting it, @roamer .

[musiclady]

I think that's right.

My understanding of history is that when Christianity became entwined with political power, that is when it no longer reflected Christ and the truth of Scripture, but in many the desire to dominate through politics.

At first I was pleased that Dobson (and others) were speaking up and I thought representing Christian thought.  But as I have observed over the years, I see that their loyalty seems to (IMHO) have switched from their original ministries and proclaiming Christ, to getting a seat at the table of the powerful.

[corbe]

[roamer_1]

I would also point out, that your comments were in response to the verse's being (mis)used to undermine those who criticize Trump for his flawed character and the need to expect more of those who aspire to be leaders.  Had they not incorrectly used the verses first there would have been no need to explain why that interpretation was incorrect.

It's not so different from those few here who claim that the Constitution supports abortion, and correcting them by explaining that their opinion is mistaken.

It was a necessary corrective to the discussion, and I very much appreciate your posting it, @roamer .

Thanks @musiclady ... I abhor the sloppy agape approach to Biblical interpretation even more than the liberal interpretation of the Constitution. That either are preached on a Conservative forum is simply beyond the pale.

[Sanguine]

Perhaps it is, but did not used to be "unique" because very few people study Scripture deeply enough to find out what it really means.

I couldn't help but wonder if Conservatives also criticize those who look deeply into and study the Constitution to understand its full meaning.

I'm not equating, of course, the Constitution with the Word of God, but your being criticized (and others as well) for giving a clear, contextual understanding of the misused verses, strikes me as odd on a Conservative board.

I would also point out, that your comments were in response to the verse's being (mis)used to undermine those who criticize Trump for his flawed character and the need to expect more of those who aspire to be leaders.  Had they not incorrectly used the verses first there would have been no need to explain why that interpretation was incorrect.

It's not so different from those few here who claim that the Constitution supports abortion, and correcting them by explaining that their opinion is mistaken.

It was a necessary corrective to the discussion, and I very much appreciate your posting it, @roamer .

We're so lucky to have you here to edify us.

[EasyAce]

No, @Sanguine , quite the other way around. I am not casting stones at his character - He has done that himself, over, and over, and over again. I just refuse to gloss it over because he makes the trains run on time.

@roamer_1
I still remember with sad amusement all those among the Trump sycophancy who saw fit to compare him to King David. Considering his performance in office and his only-too-obvious Constitutional witlessness and obliviousness (Article II says I can do what I want!, among other falsehoods), I can't help thinking it might be more appropriate to compare him to Moses.

Stop laughing, ATs and NTs, and ponder, as I did on another thread a couple of days ago:

When Moses's Israelites cried for water, God instructed Moses to speak to a certain rock at Horeb to bring forth water for the parched, rather than to strike it as once before God instructed. But the people's impatience got the better of Moses and, thus, he struck the rock with his staff rather than speak to it as God now commanded.

Moses got the desired result, of course, as the water came forth and the people drank, but getting the people what they wanted didn't take Moses off the hook for disobeying his Supreme Authority. Thus did God deny Moses himself entry into the Promised Land with the Israelites. (God was kind enough to show Moses the Promised Land from the top of Mount Nebo before kissing His servant and taking him home, but that was it.)

Now, if Moses himself couldn't get away with contravening a Supreme Authority, how the hell can a president of the United States or a Congress---any president, any Congress, never mind President Tweety and the Capitol Zoo, never mind the current aspirants to the White House and the Capitol---get away with contravening the supreme temporal American authority of the Constitution of the United States, as not only they but a considerable volume of presidents and Congresses did over several generations prior?

[Sanguine]

Thanks @musiclady ... I abhor the sloppy agape approach to Biblical interpretation even more than the liberal interpretation of the Constitution. That either are preached on a Conservative forum is simply beyond the pale.

I'm going to shock both of you and suggest that there are those here who have done a lot more studying and understand a whole lot more than...shocker....you two.  Get off your high horses.

[musiclady]

We're so lucky to have you here to edify us.

Why don’t you just put me on Ignore since you find me so distasteful? 

I’m not going to stop posting on matters that are important to me no matter how many needles you aim at me, so maybe you should consider giving it a rest....

[musiclady]

Thanks @musiclady ... I abhor the sloppy agape approach to Biblical interpretation even more than the liberal interpretation of the Constitution. That either are preached on a Conservative forum is simply beyond the pale.

Indeed.

[skeeter]

I'm going to shock both of you and suggest that there are those here who have done a lot more studying and understand a whole lot more

I suspect thats true, and while I'm not one of em (obviously) I did attend enough Sunday school to know that constant  kvetching and repeated expressions of disgust concerning one's duly elected leader are likely not considered helpful by the Almighty.

That goes for me during the Obama admin, too. Although he was a schmuck.

IMHO a better course is found in 1 Timothy 2:2.

Thats all I'll say about that.

[XenaLee]

Yeah, I believe it's called 'righteous indignation'.   Thank God Jesus wasn't afraid of ""offending"" the heathens. 

[roamer_1]

I'm going to shock both of you and suggest that there are those here who have done a lot more studying and understand a whole lot more than...shocker....you two.  Get off your high horses.

Let's find out, shall we?

Like I said, I will happily enter into that debate.

[roamer_1]

Now, if Moses himself couldn't get away with contravening a Supreme Authority, how the hell can a president of the United States or a Congress---any president, any Congress, never mind President Tweety and the Capitol Zoo, never mind the current aspirants to the White House and the Capitol---get away with contravening the supreme temporal American authority of the Constitution of the United States, as not only they but a considerable volume of presidents and Congresses did over several generations prior?

That's right, @EasyAce ... Lets not forget that YHWH judges more than people - He judges nations too.

[EasyAce]

That's right, @EasyAce ... Lets not forget that YHWH judges more than people - He judges nations too.

I can't help thinking now about how many dubious presidents were (are) considered by their sycophancies to have been sent by God.

If those sycophancies were right, then God was really p.o.ed at us! 

[Sanguine]

That's right, @EasyAce ... Lets not forget that YHWH judges more than people - He judges nations too.

But, not nations in quite the sense of Mexico or the United States for instance.  It doesn't mean nation as we use that word.

We can take it to PMs if you would like to continue; here is not the place.