Author Topic: Trump calls for more mental hospitals to keep 'crazy people' away from guns  (Read 2784 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Right_in_Virginia

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 79,898
Trump calls for more mental hospitals to keep 'crazy people' away from guns
Washington Times, Aug 15, 2019

President Trump said Thursday in response to mass shootings that the U.S. needs to build more mental institutions to keep sick, dangerous people off the streets and away from access to guns.

“We have to start building institutions again,” Mr. Trump told reporters. “So many of these institutions were closed [decades ago], and the people were just allowed to go onto the streets. And that was a terrible thing for our country. We have to open up institutions. We can’t let these people be on the streets.”

The president was responding to questions about his plans for gun control, such as expanded background checks, after shootings this month in Texas and Ohio.

Mr. Trump also noted the standoff in Philadelphia on Wednesday. A man with a long criminal history is accused of shooting six police officers.

“Bad people like that guy in Philadelphia — he shouldn’t have been on the streets,” Mr. Trump said.


More:  https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/aug/15/donald-trump-mental-hospitals-needed-keep-crazy-pe/

Offline Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 56,773
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
Of course, the Democrats would object (there go half their 'front runners')...
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Online bigheadfred

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,602
  • Gender: Male
  • One day Closer
Of course, the Democrats would object (there go half their 'front runners')...

It would take fencing off entire states to confine all the crazy people in this country.
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Offline Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 56,773
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
It would take fencing off entire states to confine all the crazy people in this country.
Well, half the people out there are below average sanity...
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Online bigheadfred

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,602
  • Gender: Male
  • One day Closer
Well, half the people out there are below average sanity...

Rethink that.

She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Offline GrouchoTex

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7,382
  • Gender: Male
Not sure I like this, to be honest.
I 100% agree that there should be more access to mental health care.
I think follow ups after release from care should be required.
I think follow ups are a larger issue that isn’t addressed.

I’m not too keen on the idea of institutionalizing  people, over what they “ might” do to others with guns, cars, knives, toasters, gasoline, egg beaters, Meatloaf, twinkies, or anything else.

Offline Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 56,773
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
Not sure I like this, to be honest.
I 100% agree that there should be more access to mental health care.
I think follow ups after release from care should be required.
I think follow ups are a larger issue that isn’t addressed.

I’m not too keen on the idea of institutionalizing  people, over what they “ might” do to others with guns, cars, knives, toasters, gasoline, egg beaters, Meatloaf, twinkies, or anything else.
It is as much a bill of attainder to forcefully detain someone because they might commit a crime, as it is to take their property for the same reason.

However, there are people who have consistently exhibited violent behaviour, who have for reasons which are mental health related injured others, not necessarily out of malice, or as part of another crime, but because of their behavioural problems. Some are violent enough that inpatient treatment may be indicated. (I'm no expert, but there are people out there you just don't want roaming loose, for demonstrable reasons.) Patterns of escalating violence may be evident. Do you wait until they graduate to the next level, or do you try to stop the escalation? I think there could be solid criteria drawn up which would be acceptable to everyone, not just based on he said/she said and some hurt feelings or wild statement uttered in passion.

There is a point where people have exhibited behaviour which is threatening, where people have been injured, and where there has been stated clear intent to do others harm, but it is usually best seen in retrospect.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2019, 07:00:41 am by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Online bigheadfred

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,602
  • Gender: Male
  • One day Closer
Not sure I like this, to be honest.
I 100% agree that there should be more access to mental health care.
I think follow ups after release from care should be required.
I think follow ups are a larger issue that isn’t addressed.

I’m not too keen on the idea of institutionalizing  people, over what they “ might” do to others with guns, cars, knives, toasters, gasoline, egg beaters, Meatloaf, twinkies, or anything else.

By force and by large. Read the thread I posted. Ain't gonna link it.

Ain't pintin' a finger like it is in court.

Eisenhower sed it. If you dint listen then and do sumpthin then you were either dead or dead.

I dint hear him. I herd me dad say when JFK ded it was done. (The American Dream)

And By all The Strength of God he didn't stop. My dad told me what ever those bastards do, don't stop.
 
Don't stop.
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Offline txradioguy

  • Propaganda NCOIC
  • Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 23,534
  • Gender: Male
  • Rule #39
Finally someone is addressing one of the things that need to be done before we start talking about any kind of red flag laws or stricter regulation on firearms.

Now he needs to discuss more prison bed space.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline GrouchoTex

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7,382
  • Gender: Male
It is as much a bill of attainder to forcefully detain someone because they might commit a crime, as it is to take their property for the same reason.

However, there are people who have consistently exhibited violent behaviour, who have for reasons which are mental health related injured others, not necessarily out of malice, or as part of another crime, but because of their behavioural problems. Some are violent enough that inpatient treatment may be indicated. (I'm no expert, but there are people out there you just don't want roaming loose, for demonstrable reasons.) Patterns of escalating violence may be evident. Do you wait until they graduate to the next level, or do you try to stop the escalation? I think there could be solid criteria drawn up which would be acceptable to everyone, not just based on he said/she said and some hurt feelings or wild statement uttered in passion.

There is a point where people have exhibited behaviour which is threatening, where people have been injured, and where there has been stated clear intent to do others harm, but it is usually best seen in retrospect.

What I have noticed in Texas, which may not be the case everywhere, is what happens to those that can't afford private psychiatric care.
They will get help, get meds, become stable, and then be dropped off in the nearest city closest to where they live.
They are told follow up with a doctor at a certain date and time.
Next, before this happens, they run out of meds, and are stuck downtown somewhere in unfamiliar surroundings, and all that treatment before is gone out the window.
Next thing you know, they're homeless, on the street.
My thing is not just treating them in a facility and letting them go, but to follow up after they have been released.
(1) Did the goal of treating and releasing them work? In these cases, no?
(2) Was it necessary to put them in a facility in the first place, or could it have been done via outpatient, even with visits to the person's home, if necessary?
I don't know, maybe.
(3) Follow up.

Offline roamer_1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43,824
Finally someone is addressing one of the things that need to be done before we start talking about any kind of red flag laws or stricter regulation on firearms.


@txradioguy
Looks more to me like increasing capacity to handle what they'll be doing with their red flag laws...
They say we need more facility for crazy people - They ain't saying how they'll get there.


Offline roamer_1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43,824
What I have noticed in Texas, which may not be the case everywhere, is what happens to those that can't afford private psychiatric care.


@GrouchoTex
The first thing to realize is that like with al of medicine, there is more money in maintenance than there is in cure.

They catch the guy, fiddle around a while, charge the government 10 grand, and then throw him back... Fishin's fine.

Offline txradioguy

  • Propaganda NCOIC
  • Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 23,534
  • Gender: Male
  • Rule #39
@txradioguy
Looks more to me like increasing capacity to handle what they'll be doing with their red flag laws...
They say we need more facility for crazy people - They ain't saying how they'll get there.

@roamer_1 yeah I can see that happening too if the red flag laws go into effect.  But the homeless problem we have right now IMHO is due in large part to the lefts belief that people with mental issues could be "normalized" with medication and therapy when they really should have stayed locked up.  Then they got turned loose on society where they couldn't cope or dumped on family members who had nether the expertise nor the money to care for someone with mental issues.  The VA is no better at this.

And thus you have the homeless populations you see today.  Had those hospitals not been shut down there'd be places to keep and treat them.

Again just my humble opinion we need to address what we're doing (or not doing) with criminals and the criminally insane and people with other mental health issues before any red flag law is even considered.

But then just this weekend you've got Bernie promising if he's elected President he's going to reduce the number of people incarcerated in America.  While at the same time doing what he can to limit the ownership of guns by you and me.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline roamer_1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43,824
And thus you have the homeless populations you see today.  Had those hospitals not been shut down there'd be places to keep and treat them.

@txradioguy
Well, no. Yes, mental illness is a part of the problem, but far and away the problem is drugs... and the fried remains that are the result of drugs.

Quote
Again just my humble opinion we need to address what we're doing (or not doing) with criminals and the criminally insane and people with other mental health issues before any red flag law is even considered.

That's right. But like I said upthread, there's more money in keeping em sick.

Offline GrouchoTex

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7,382
  • Gender: Male
@GrouchoTex
The first thing to realize is that like with al of medicine, there is more money in maintenance than there is in cure.

They catch the guy, fiddle around a while, charge the government 10 grand, and then throw him back... Fishin's fine.

Unfortunately, true

Offline txradioguy

  • Propaganda NCOIC
  • Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 23,534
  • Gender: Male
  • Rule #39
@txradioguy
Well, no. Yes, mental illness is a part of the problem, but far and away the problem is drugs... and the fried remains that are the result of drugs.

You're right drugs are just as big of a problem.  I'm seeing it here in Colorado one of the "legal" pot states.  And now Denver has legalized magic mushrooms on top of weed.  The cities where recreational pot is allowed (Pueblo, Denver, Boulder and Ft Collins) you see homeless all over the place...people lining up at night at the free shelters...homeless camps set up on the rivers and crime going up as well.

And the increase in homeless in Colorado is tied directly to the "legalization" of weed.

Quote
That's right. But like I said upthread, there's more money in keeping em sick.

More money and a voting scheme by the left because they tell people "elect me and I'll find a solution to this humanitarian crisis" which their solution is usually higher taxes bad mouthing Republicans and nothing getting fixed.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline Applewood

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,361
Another crazy idea in an effort to prevent mass murder.  And another idea that, if implemented, will more likely be applied against law abiding citizens who would not even think of killing. 

I can see it now.  You served in Afghanistan.  You experienced PTSD and are receiving treatment.  You have shown no indication that you want to shoot up a Walmart or a synagogue  But you have a couple of rifles in your garage (acquired legally).  So the government will come and get you, put you away and take away your rifles. 

No.


Offline Cyber Liberty

  • Coffee! Donuts! Kittens!
  • Administrator
  • ******
  • Posts: 80,221
  • Gender: Male
  • 🌵🌵🌵
Another crazy idea in an effort to prevent mass murder.  And another idea that, if implemented, will more likely be applied against law abiding citizens who would not even think of killing. 

I can see it now.  You served in Afghanistan.  You experienced PTSD and are receiving treatment.  You have shown no indication that you want to shoot up a Walmart or a synagogue  But you have a couple of rifles in your garage (acquired legally).  So the government will come and get you, put you away and take away your rifles. 

No.

All such things would be possible, once the Pshcyo Association designate "Hoplophilla" a mental illness.  Then it won't matter if someone's a Veteran or not.

The mere act of desiring a weapon will be grounds for incarceration.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline txradioguy

  • Propaganda NCOIC
  • Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 23,534
  • Gender: Male
  • Rule #39
All such things would be possible, once the Pshcyo Association designate "Hoplophilla" a mental illness.  Then it won't matter if someone's a Veteran or not.

The mere act of desiring a weapon will be grounds for incarceration.

"You'd have to be crazy to want to own a gun"
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline Cyber Liberty

  • Coffee! Donuts! Kittens!
  • Administrator
  • ******
  • Posts: 80,221
  • Gender: Male
  • 🌵🌵🌵
"You'd have to be crazy to want to own a gun"

That's how it's phrased today.  Same ting.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline txradioguy

  • Propaganda NCOIC
  • Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 23,534
  • Gender: Male
  • Rule #39
That's how it's phrased today.  Same ting.

And yet some want us to believe that the Government won't abuse these laws and that they only have our best interest and safety at heart.  *****rollingeyes*****
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline Cyber Liberty

  • Coffee! Donuts! Kittens!
  • Administrator
  • ******
  • Posts: 80,221
  • Gender: Male
  • 🌵🌵🌵
And yet some want us to believe that the Government won't abuse these laws and that they only have our best interest and safety at heart.  *****rollingeyes*****

You and I will not share that optimism, and of the two of us, you are a whole lot closer to the firing line.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline txradioguy

  • Propaganda NCOIC
  • Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 23,534
  • Gender: Male
  • Rule #39
You and I will not share that optimism, and of the two of us, you are a whole lot closer to the firing line.

I mean how much worse could it get?  I've already been labeled a potential domestic terrorist by Obama's one time DHS Secretary.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline GrouchoTex

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7,382
  • Gender: Male
I mean how much worse could it get?  I've already been labeled a potential domestic terrorist by Obama's one time DHS Secretary.

Sad, but you an other vets were called that by Janet Napalitano.

Offline txradioguy

  • Propaganda NCOIC
  • Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 23,534
  • Gender: Male
  • Rule #39
Sad, but you an other vets were called that by Janet Napalitano.

And don't think democrats haven't forgotten that and that they wouldn't use her statements as a basis to stop me from owning guns.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!