Author Topic: The Truly Insidious Nature of Red Flag Laws - KrisAnne Hall, JD  (Read 43588 times)

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Offline sneakypete

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Re: The Truly Insidious Nature of Red Flag Laws - KrisAnne Hall, JD
« Reply #375 on: August 14, 2019, 07:23:28 pm »
What you call "schemes" are laws passed by the peoples' elected representatives.   If you want to engage in armed rebellion, rather than working within the framework of our constitutional republic to change minds, leaders and laws,  then may you die swiftly and with minimal suffering.   Just so long as no peace officer's family needs to be told their daddy is dead at the hands of a selfish nutjob.

@Jazzhead

Is that you,Beato?
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Offline Jazzhead

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Re: The Truly Insidious Nature of Red Flag Laws - KrisAnne Hall, JD
« Reply #376 on: August 14, 2019, 07:23:47 pm »

Two incidents, fewer than one in ten million Americans killed, and you want to take away firearms from 80+million people, and you call US paranoid?
 

Oh, cut the crap.   I have no goal or desire to "take away firearms from 80-plus million people".   Stop this baldface lying about my position. 

To the contrary,  I have advocated time and again to take steps to strengthen and codify the individual RKBA.   You're going to lose it, especially if your obsession with this single issue causes you to fail to vote for your Republican candidates for office.    One SCOTUS vote away . . . .
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Offline Jazzhead

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Re: The Truly Insidious Nature of Red Flag Laws - KrisAnne Hall, JD
« Reply #377 on: August 14, 2019, 07:27:06 pm »
  It's why this shit has to be stopped, and stopped now.

So why do you threaten to withhold your vote from Sen. McSally unless she sees things your absolutist way?    Will having a Dem as your Senator help to secure your precious right?

 *****rollingeyes*****   
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: The Truly Insidious Nature of Red Flag Laws - KrisAnne Hall, JD
« Reply #378 on: August 14, 2019, 07:27:36 pm »
If he thinks the military will just blindly obey an unlawful order to start seizing law abiding citizens weapons then someone doesn't know the military very well.

 

@txradioguy

MAYBE not the military of today,but once the military is primarily composed of illegal aliens and other foreigners who enlisted for the money and the benefits,they will follow any orders given to them because that is all they have ever known,and because they don't want to lose their "golden eggs".
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Offline Jazzhead

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Re: The Truly Insidious Nature of Red Flag Laws - KrisAnne Hall, JD
« Reply #379 on: August 14, 2019, 07:29:11 pm »

We know you mean to take our property and our freedom. If someone is out to 'get you', and you have professed that desire on countless occasions when it comes to taking firearms Rights, well, by definition we aren't paranoid at all. And it isn't even just taking the means of actively defending against whatever comes along,the putsch is for taking the passive means of defense as well. The only possible reason for that combination is to render the populace as helpless as possible in the face of government--and, historically, that means incipient tyranny.


 :silly:  :silly:

My God, this is paranoid nonsense.   
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: The Truly Insidious Nature of Red Flag Laws - KrisAnne Hall, JD
« Reply #380 on: August 14, 2019, 07:31:03 pm »
By the time they were a Sophomore in High School, it was obvious to them they were different than most.  They were already into leadership positions in whatever they joined.  And they realized most of their classmates were too lazy and unengaged to be more than cattle.  Cattle have their purpose and we would be less without them.  But they learned not to depend on them any more than they would cattle.

Honestly, I believe they were better for being in public school.  They are going to have to deal with those folks for the rest of their lives.  Learning how to lead them and when to avoid them are worthwhile skills in their lives.

Honestly, I worry homeschool only children may end up expecting far too much from the general public.
Frankly, I think you are right. We have a tendency to believe that others believe like those in our social circles, and one thing public school does is expose a kid to a whole slew of belief (and disbelief) systems. Granted, most of them are Leftist, but an engaged parent will be able to gently refute them.

We always told the kids, say what you have to on the test to get the grade, but know better, that there are other viewpoints, other accounts, and considerably more to the topic than you are being given, and the reason that information is so severely filtered is to keep you from thinking other than what they want you to think.
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Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

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Offline txradioguy

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Re: The Truly Insidious Nature of Red Flag Laws - KrisAnne Hall, JD
« Reply #381 on: August 14, 2019, 07:34:52 pm »
@txradioguy

MAYBE not the military of today,but once the military is primarily composed of illegal aliens and other foreigners who enlisted for the money and the benefits,they will follow any orders given to them because that is all they have ever known,and because they don't want to lose their "golden eggs".

Not sure entirely what you've heard about the Army of today...but from my foxhole and years of experience...there's not as many of what you describe in the ranks as the media wants you to believe.  I'm still leading some really good really tough soldiers.  Ones that think for themselves.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

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Re: The Truly Insidious Nature of Red Flag Laws - KrisAnne Hall, JD
« Reply #382 on: August 14, 2019, 07:37:23 pm »
That’s a demeaning thing to say to @Jazzhead

He doesn’t deserve that characterization. His point of view is shared by many in both parties and the non affiliated, opinion polls suggest.

These folks, my relatives, friends and neighbors) are equal American participants in our republic’s politics. And we’ve got to learn to negotiate with them the way Reagan did, by bringing people on board, not by trying to kick them off the train.
I have been kicked off the train, not that I was ever really on it. Big whoop.
As for the polls, who? where? in what urban enclave were these polls taken?
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

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Re: The Truly Insidious Nature of Red Flag Laws - KrisAnne Hall, JD
« Reply #383 on: August 14, 2019, 07:40:11 pm »
So why do you threaten to withhold your vote from Sen. McSally unless she sees things your absolutist way?    Will having a Dem as your Senator help to secure your precious right?

 *****rollingeyes*****

If she caves on this issue, she's no different than the average Rat, so yes.  You just roll them eyes outta here.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: The Truly Insidious Nature of Red Flag Laws - KrisAnne Hall, JD
« Reply #384 on: August 14, 2019, 07:42:10 pm »
Not sure entirely what you've heard about the Army of today...but from my foxhole and years of experience...there's not as many of what you describe in the ranks as the media wants you to believe.  I'm still leading some really good really tough soldiers.  Ones that think for themselves.

@txradioguy

Good to hear. I confess I never saw much evidence of thinking in any of my exposures to the regular army,and the NCO'S and officers were typically bigger slackers and dummies than some of the privates. I was temporarily attached to regular army units twice while healing from injuries,and both times I felt more like a babysitter or prison guard than an NCO,and some of the officers were worse than the Privates when it came to ducking responsibility.
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Re: The Truly Insidious Nature of Red Flag Laws - KrisAnne Hall, JD
« Reply #385 on: August 14, 2019, 07:46:09 pm »
@txradioguy

Good to hear. I confess I never saw much evidence of thinking in any of my exposures to the regular army,and the NCO'S and officers were typically bigger slackers and dummies than some of the privates. I was temporarily attached to regular army units twice while healing from injuries,and both times I felt more like a babysitter or prison guard than an NCO,and some of the officers were worse than the Privates when it came to ducking responsibility.

We've had our share of screw ups and misfits...happens even in a professional army...but for the most part we're still the best around...there's more than a few old school guys like me left around that are teaching these new kids what right looks like.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: The Truly Insidious Nature of Red Flag Laws - KrisAnne Hall, JD
« Reply #386 on: August 14, 2019, 07:46:41 pm »
If she caves on this issue, she's no different than the average Rat, so yes.  You just roll them eyes outta here.

So you'll cut off your nose to spite your face?   Brilliant . . .
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Re: The Truly Insidious Nature of Red Flag Laws - KrisAnne Hall, JD
« Reply #387 on: August 14, 2019, 07:46:53 pm »
Not sure entirely what you've heard about the Army of today...but from my foxhole and years of experience...there's not as many of what you describe in the ranks as the media wants you to believe.  I'm still leading some really good really tough soldiers.  Ones that think for themselves.

That's good to know.  Honest Question:  What would you do if your CO gave you an order to disarm Citizens?  I know what you would do personally, but what would you do with your men?  Tell them about the order, or not say anything?
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Re: The Truly Insidious Nature of Red Flag Laws - KrisAnne Hall, JD
« Reply #388 on: August 14, 2019, 07:47:42 pm »
So you'll cut off your nose to spite your face?   Brilliant . . .

If she votes for more gun control, my nose would have already been separated from my face.  Not my doing.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: The Truly Insidious Nature of Red Flag Laws - KrisAnne Hall, JD
« Reply #389 on: August 14, 2019, 07:50:01 pm »
:silly:  :silly:

My God, this is paranoid nonsense.
You have spent this entire thread decrying the individual ("...Right of the People...") Right to Keep and Bear Arms, you have denied the intended violation of the 4th, 5th, 14th Amendment Rights of the individual the whole time you have promoted violating those Rights, and you call us paranoid?

One isn't paranoid, by definition, if someone is really out to do them harm (take their Liberty, their stuff, deny them their Rights), and between you and the lovely folks in Congress, enough people have declared just that intent.

The only nonsense is what you are spewing.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

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Re: The Truly Insidious Nature of Red Flag Laws - KrisAnne Hall, JD
« Reply #390 on: August 14, 2019, 07:54:55 pm »
 888high58888
You have spent this entire thread decrying the individual ("...Right of the People...") Right to Keep and Bear Arms, you have denied the intended violation of the 4th, 5th, 14th Amendment Rights of the individual the whole time you have promoted violating those Rights, and you call us paranoid?

One isn't paranoid, by definition, if someone is really out to do them harm (take their Liberty, their stuff, deny them their Rights), and between you and the lovely folks in Congress, enough people have declared just that intent.

The only nonsense is what you are spewing.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: The Truly Insidious Nature of Red Flag Laws - KrisAnne Hall, JD
« Reply #391 on: August 14, 2019, 07:56:33 pm »
You have spent this entire thread decrying the individual ("...Right of the People...") Right to Keep and Bear Arms

Can't you flippin' read?    I don't "decry" the individual RKBA,  I support it.   But I am realistic enough to know that its survival depends on conservatives of all stripes acting in solidarity.   
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Offline thackney

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Re: The Truly Insidious Nature of Red Flag Laws - KrisAnne Hall, JD
« Reply #392 on: August 14, 2019, 08:03:53 pm »
Can't you flippin' read?    I don't "decry" the individual RKBA,  I support it.   But I am realistic enough to know that its survival depends on conservatives of all stripes acting in solidarity.

We are realistic enough, and the lesson is well taught in multiple countries histories, that what you support will lead to the eventual confiscation of guns and destroy the right.

This isn't new.  This isn't different.

It is a line in the sand that many millions will stand against.  In the voting booth and in the home.
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Re: The Truly Insidious Nature of Red Flag Laws - KrisAnne Hall, JD
« Reply #393 on: August 14, 2019, 08:05:45 pm »
We are realistic enough, and the lesson is well taught in multiple countries histories, that what you support will lead to the eventual confiscation of guns and destroy the right.

This isn't new.  This isn't different.

It is a line in the sand that many millions will stand against.  In the voting booth and in the home.

"This Time It Will Be Different!  The Right People Are In Charge Now."
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline Sanguine

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Re: The Truly Insidious Nature of Red Flag Laws - KrisAnne Hall, JD
« Reply #394 on: August 14, 2019, 08:08:20 pm »
So why do you threaten to withhold your vote from Sen. McSally unless she sees things your absolutist way?    Will having a Dem as your Senator help to secure your precious right?

 *****rollingeyes*****

That's your definition of absolutism, @Jazzhead?

Oh, by the way, what did you think of the information that KrisAnne presented?

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Re: The Truly Insidious Nature of Red Flag Laws - KrisAnne Hall, JD
« Reply #395 on: August 14, 2019, 08:08:39 pm »
I'll admit that you really do have a feel for gun-porn, @Smokin Joe .   Happiness is a warm gun! 
Your words, not mine. I'm happy to never have to use any of my firearms against someone coming to injure or kill me, no matter who that might be. But that won't stop me from using them to defend self, family, home or even others in need, if that need arises.
By your very implications, police are pistol packing blood letters who get off on killing people, after all, they not only have guns, but have been (by law) given access to firearms the general public can't have. What a decidedly urban viewpoint.  **nononono*

[/quote]Again: We are not a tyranny, we are a Constitutional republic.    We are not ruled by a king; rather, our government is led by our elected representatives.    What you brand as "tyranny" is just politics.   And the solution for bad politicians is to vote them out.   This insistence that your right to own an arsenal is so you can be prepared to shoot peace officers is an insult to the Founders and the system of SELF-governance they created. 

The 2A by its plain language is obsolete.   The right of citizens to keep (that is, own and store) and bear arms is in service to the "well-regulated militia".    Those are militias organized at the state or local level, and the 2A was an admonition to the federal government that those systems of common defense not be disturbed.   

But the 2A doesn't address the individual right.   Like many,  I consider the right to protect one's self and property to be God-given (that is, a natural right of the individual),  and strongly support the Heller decision's conclusion that the Constitution secures this natural right as it does others, like the rights of privacy and self-determination.   

I've stated before that the individual RKBA derives from the same authority as the Constitution's protection of the right of abortion.   Now before you flip out again, consider this:  The law that has developed around the abortion right is instructive for what SHOULD be the courts' approach to the individual gun right.    Laws regulating abortion must pass the "undue burden" test -  they must not place an undue burden on a woman's free exercise of her right.   A similar test should be applied to the gun right.   If it were,  a whole heck of a lot of gun regulation would be unconstitutional.   

That's why I keep saying that the right deemed secured by Heller should be codified.    Doing so would not only minimize the chance that a future SCOTUS majority will take the right away,  but can also establish the statutory test for determining whether a regulation or restriction of the right is reasonable, or onerous.   
[/quote]Few sane would maintain that those who had just fought off tyranny with their own weapons and who were eminently cautious about the tendency of governments to accrue power to themselves would (especially in the face of the discussion, documented) even begin to suggest that the intent of the Founders was anything but the ability to be able to (again) resist the tyrannical machinations of any government.

Your cherry picking my comments, out of context and attempting to apply meaning to them clearly not intended, along with your perfidy concerning the Second Amendment, are despicable. We all know codifying a Right is not only unnecessary, but implies that the Right can be removed by repealing the law codifying, it, in effect, making the Government the grantor of that Right. It just isn't so. Your implications that desiring to remain armed, to keep property lawfully acquired, paid for by the sweat of our brow, somehow makes us bloodthirsty killers, is beyond my ability to decry in language acceptable to this forum.

The Constitution established a few narrow and limited powers ceded to the Federal Government and specified how those few powers were to be implemented. The rest of the document is all about limiting that power, and reserving all else to the States and the People, and it even says so.

The Courts, quick to usurp, have taken on the mantle of interpreting the Constitution, of finding Rights not mentioned, and denying those specifically protected, when their purpose was to interpret the law (as written) and see if that conformed with the limitations of the original document, as amended. If any question exists, those phrases and clauses were discussed in the media of the day, in the Federalist Papers, primarily, and in communications by the writers of those phrases. There is little room for misinterpretation, unless one chooses to ignore that supporting documentation and engage in the sort of semantic gymnastics we have seen you utilize here. Utter crap.

You have been presented with enough refutation that you have reverted to name calling, from "extremist" to "paranoid" (implying someone needs to be red-flagged?) and a host of other nonsense. You have no real arguments which have not been solidly refuted yet persist in attempting to disrupt conversation rather than join in in any meaningful way. There is a word for such behaviour on the internet, and I really doubt I need to specify it (others have).
« Last Edit: August 14, 2019, 08:26:15 pm by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

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Re: The Truly Insidious Nature of Red Flag Laws - KrisAnne Hall, JD
« Reply #396 on: August 14, 2019, 08:09:54 pm »
That's good to know.  Honest Question:  What would you do if your CO gave you an order to disarm Citizens?  I know what you would do personally, but what would you do with your men?  Tell them about the order, or not say anything?

Advise them that the order is one that appears for all tense and purposes to be an unlawful order and that they were not under any obligation to carry it out.  I'd tell them to do what they think their conscience can handle and that any decision from that point forward was their to make...but I personally would not make them carry out that order under any circumstances.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

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Re: The Truly Insidious Nature of Red Flag Laws - KrisAnne Hall, JD
« Reply #397 on: August 14, 2019, 08:11:19 pm »
I want to know what Jazzhead thinks about the topic of this thread. 

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Re: The Truly Insidious Nature of Red Flag Laws - KrisAnne Hall, JD
« Reply #398 on: August 14, 2019, 08:26:20 pm »
Advise them that the order is one that appears for all tense and purposes to be an unlawful order and that they were not under any obligation to carry it out.  I'd tell them to do what they think their conscience can handle and that any decision from that point forward was their to make...but I personally would not make them carry out that order under any circumstances.

That's the part I knew you would do, personally.  Good man!  888high58888

(Pssst...it's "for all intents and purposes."  :laugh: :police: )
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

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Re: The Truly Insidious Nature of Red Flag Laws - KrisAnne Hall, JD
« Reply #399 on: August 14, 2019, 08:28:19 pm »
I want to know what Jazzhead thinks about the topic of this thread.
Jazzhead thinks? He reminds me of the Communist we had in the Geology department where I went to college. It's the same tired fallacies, over and over, in the same terms, with the same arguments, seldom phrased much different than in the Manifesto. Parrot noise.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis