Author Topic: The Truly Insidious Nature of Red Flag Laws - KrisAnne Hall, JD  (Read 43657 times)

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Re: The Truly Insidious Nature of Red Flag Laws - KrisAnne Hall, JD
« Reply #275 on: August 14, 2019, 11:28:53 am »
Well, I do wish that woman would get to the point.   After 12 minutes,  I decided to go work out at the gym.   

But here's my beef with her and those who think like her:   The 2A as written is obsolete.   This is not about killing the king.   We threw out the king, and installed in its place a representative government of the people, by the people,  with explicit protections for individual rights.    We don't need pitchforks and assault weapons to take down our leaders,  we have the ballot box.    I am offended by this notion that guns secure our freedoms - our Constitution and our traditions of self-government do.    When a President or Congress overreaches (like, say, after what Obama did with the ACA),   the voters throw the bums out.    That's going to be the battleground next year - whether to throw the bums out.   I agree that, nowadays,  the biased and unprofessional media has their thumb on the scales,  but the answer is still not armed insurrection.    Our institutions still work.     

The 2A protects no natural, individual right.   The 2A addresses matters of civil and community defense, from a time when a key role was played by citizen militias.  It is obsolete in today's world.    The natural right to self defense of person and property is an unenumerated right similar to the individual rights of privacy and self-determination.   These are protected by Constitution,  to be sure,  but there is an ongoing tension between the courts and the legislatures since a sizable portion of the population disagrees with the courts that these rights are in fact protected.   If close to half the nation wants to abolish the Constitution's protection for abortion,  then I'd think a similar percentage likely wants to abolish the Constitution's protection (by means of Heller) of the individual right to keep a firearm for self protection. 

The angst and anger that folks feel has as its source this tension.  We are all hypocrites.  Rights for me but not for thee.   Those who most zealously guard their RKBA are often the first to demand that a woman's right to choose be denied.   And those who most zealously guard the woman's choice right see no hypocrisy in demanding laws that would take away a man's right to defend his home and family.   

Can a constitutional republic survive when half the country doesn't share the values of the other half?   That's the open question,  but matters would be helped if both sides could manage to recognize their selfishness.   
There you go with somehow finding in the Constitution a Right to kill innocents. That supposed Right was fabricated by a handful of judges, and there is NO WAY you will ever convince me that the Founders would have asserted that such a natural Right exists. So, Poppycock.

Now, the Second Amendment wasn't about killing the King, (nor was the Revolution, for that matter.)

What it was about, was resisting tyranny, from any source. Period.

That had just been done magnificently by colonists armed with muskets and rifles with which they were familiar, because they owned them, for the most part. Some of the most significant shots of the war were made by riflemen who knew (and owned) their firearms.
In later conflicts, breech loading firearms, metallic cartridges, lever action repeating rifles, Gatling guns, bolt actions, semiautomatic rifles, machine guns, and finally select fire infantry arms have carried the day, each an improvement in the fight against tyrannical governments--or improvements in technology made by those defending that tyranny. There is no reason to assume that anyone trying to impose tyranny would limit themselves to single shot rifles, but instead, they will use whatever best technology is available to them.
Therefore, the best available technology should be available to resist that tyranny.
No one ever said the Second Amendment was about duck hunting, or even just self defense unless they are misguided as to the intent of the Amendment. Those are such fundamental Rights, the founders would not have even mentioned the possession of arms for such mundane causes--it was assumed that all knew they had the right to hunt for food, and to defend themselves against marauders of any stripe.
The purpose was so every man (and woman) could resist tyrannical forces, regardless of that source, and for that reason the Right of the People to Keep and Bear Arms was enshrined as sacrosanct. This was and is a Right reserved to the People, and not to be infringed by the machinations of government, which have been many already.
There comes a point where no more ground can be given in the cause of compromise, where any more is to accept the very tyranny which the enumeration of the Right exists to resist.

Tyrannical governments and those who would impose them have not gone away, or we wouldn't even be having this discussion. Today's totalitarians cloak their aims in the guise of everything from protecting children to saving the planet, and while their approach may be more subtle than just marching troops down the street, their aim is no less a tyrannical government.
Thus it remains, and being able to resist tyranny is more relevant than ever.

Never in the history of humanity have so many been exterminated by tyrants as in the last century, and frankly, that shows no signs of just going away.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2019, 11:32:40 am by Smokin Joe »
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Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

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Re: The Truly Insidious Nature of Red Flag Laws - KrisAnne Hall, JD
« Reply #276 on: August 14, 2019, 11:45:29 am »
Oh.  So you're okay with gun owners being locked up -- just not having their guns taken away?  And for exactly how long do we keep them locked up?
What is the sentence for conspiracy to commit a terrorist act, or more simply, to commit murder in the first degree?
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

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Re: The Truly Insidious Nature of Red Flag Laws - KrisAnne Hall, JD
« Reply #277 on: August 14, 2019, 12:03:04 pm »
So what is the purpose of having laws?    This lawless mentality on the part of "conservatives" is disturbing, especially because it is not rooted in principle, but selfishness.
Yeah, we have a selfish need to uphold principles.

Is that all you got?
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

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Re: The Truly Insidious Nature of Red Flag Laws - KrisAnne Hall, JD
« Reply #278 on: August 14, 2019, 12:07:08 pm »
Good question.  He hasn't yet acted on his threat.   If the state has gotten it wrong,  it is a far lesser injustice that his gun be removed,  rather than his liberty.
Where is your compassion man? Get the fellow the mental health care he needs!
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

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Re: The Truly Insidious Nature of Red Flag Laws - KrisAnne Hall, JD
« Reply #279 on: August 14, 2019, 12:11:18 pm »
It's like the practice of step therapy in medicine.  If a man's a substantiated potential threat,  but hasn't yet acted, take his dangerous tool away.   That is a far lesser deprivation than of his liberty. 

Why do you fetishize the tool?    Why is that "property" more important to be protected than the man's liberty?     
His kitchen knives? his claw hammer? his axe, hatchet, machete? His lawnmower (he can remove the blade) Every rock for miles around (It worked for Cain.).

Pick a tool, any tool, and scrub the barren landscape down to fine sand. If he is nuts and still intends to kill people, he'll use his belt or shoelaces as a ligature.

If someone on Suicide Watch in a Federal Prison can find a way to do themselves in, how much easier would it be for someone on the outside to find a way to kill a bunch of people?
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

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Re: The Truly Insidious Nature of Red Flag Laws - KrisAnne Hall, JD
« Reply #280 on: August 14, 2019, 12:15:25 pm »
That's a convenient way to dodge the issue -- attacking one person who is making the argument because you don't like him.  Maybe you don't like me either, but I'm not a liberal.

In this case, I think @Jazzhead made a going point.  There are clearly some circumstances under which the vast majority of citizens -- even if not the particular people in this thread -- would agree that someone should have guns taken away from them.   Making the argument that "under no circumstances should someone ever be deprived of their guns regardless of the threat they present to others"  -- which is the essence of what is being argued here -- is massive loser politically.  I also think it's stupid policy.

The right argument is to permit red flag laws, but only those with strong due process guarantees, a "shall return" legal mechanism that doesn't require the gun owner to sue to get his stuff back, but rather places the burden on the government to periodically prove their case all over again, expedited appeals, etc..  But if you refuse to enter into any discussion for red flag laws of any kind at all, then you're going to let the gun grabbers draft all those laws by themselves, and we'll end up with something much, much worse.
In 1492, the vast majority of people thought the world was flat.
In 1850, heavier than air flight was considered impossible.
In 1940, the vast majority of people thought we'd never break the sound barrier.
THe vast majority of people have been wrong before.

Our government doesn't exist to protect the 'vast majority' but the Rights of the individual.
Otherwise, the vast majority would cross the land like locusts, taking anything they want.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

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Re: The Truly Insidious Nature of Red Flag Laws - KrisAnne Hall, JD
« Reply #281 on: August 14, 2019, 12:24:48 pm »
What kind of "grounds" are you talking about? Coffee grounds? 

You can't arrest someone who has not yet committed a crime, and you can't lock someone up for mental incompetency if they're just an bleep rather than mentally incompetent.

Also, I hardly see how you've made things better for gun owners if we say "well, you can have red flag laws to toss gun owners in jail indefinitely.  You just can't take their guns."
Enough speculative BS

Quote
To secure treatment during or following a psychiatric crisis, it is essential to know the civil commitment laws and standards that determine eligibility for intervention where the individual in crisis lives.

Three forms of involuntary treatment are authorized by civil commitment laws in 46 states and the District of Columbia. Two forms are available in Connecticut, Maryland, Massachusetts and Tennessee, where court-ordered outpatient treatment has not yet been adopted.

    Emergency hospitalization for evaluation is a crisis response in which a patient is admitted to a treatment facility for psychiatric evaluation, typically for a short period of fixed time (e.g., 72 hours). "Psychiatric hold" or "pick-up" and other terms may be used to describe the process.
    Inpatient civil commitment is a process in which a judge orders hospital treatment for a person who continues to meet the state’s civil commitment criteria after the emergency evaluation period. Inpatient commitment is practiced in all states, but the standards that qualify an individual for it vary from state to state. “Involuntary hospitalization” or another term may be used to describe the practice.
    Outpatient civil commitment or “assisted outpatient treatment (AOT)“ is a treatment option in which a judge orders a qualifying person with symptoms of mental illness to adhere to a mental health treatment plan while living in the community. AOT laws have been passed in 46 states, but the standards for its use vary from state to state. “Outpatient commitment,” “involuntary outpatient commitment,” “mandated outpatient treatment” and other terms may be used to describe the practice.

Use the map on this page to navigate to information about the laws in your state.

To find out who can initiate court-ordered psychiatric intervention, see "Initiating Court-Ordered Assisted Treatment: Inpatient, Outpatient and Emergency Hospitalization Standards by State."

https://www.treatmentadvocacycenter.org/component/content/article/183-in-a-crisis/1596-know-the-laws-in-your-state
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline EdJames

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Re: The Truly Insidious Nature of Red Flag Laws - KrisAnne Hall, JD
« Reply #282 on: August 14, 2019, 12:31:23 pm »
There you go with somehow finding in the Constitution a Right to kill innocents. That supposed Right was fabricated by a handful of judges, and there is NO WAY you will ever convince me that the Founders would have asserted that such a natural Right exists. So, Poppycock.

Now, the Second Amendment wasn't about killing the King, (nor was the Revolution, for that matter.)

What it was about, was resisting tyranny, from any source. Period.

That had just been done magnificently by colonists armed with muskets and rifles with which they were familiar, because they owned them, for the most part. Some of the most significant shots of the war were made by riflemen who knew (and owned) their firearms.
In later conflicts, breech loading firearms, metallic cartridges, lever action repeating rifles, Gatling guns, bolt actions, semiautomatic rifles, machine guns, and finally select fire infantry arms have carried the day, each an improvement in the fight against tyrannical governments--or improvements in technology made by those defending that tyranny. There is no reason to assume that anyone trying to impose tyranny would limit themselves to single shot rifles, but instead, they will use whatever best technology is available to them.
Therefore, the best available technology should be available to resist that tyranny.
No one ever said the Second Amendment was about duck hunting, or even just self defense unless they are misguided as to the intent of the Amendment. Those are such fundamental Rights, the founders would not have even mentioned the possession of arms for such mundane causes--it was assumed that all knew they had the right to hunt for food, and to defend themselves against marauders of any stripe.
The purpose was so every man (and woman) could resist tyrannical forces, regardless of that source, and for that reason the Right of the People to Keep and Bear Arms was enshrined as sacrosanct.
This was and is a Right reserved to the People, and not to be infringed by the machinations of government, which have been many already.
There comes a point where no more ground can be given in the cause of compromise, where any more is to accept the very tyranny which the enumeration of the Right exists to resist.

Tyrannical governments and those who would impose them have not gone away, or we wouldn't even be having this discussion. Today's totalitarians cloak their aims in the guise of everything from protecting children to saving the planet, and while their approach may be more subtle than just marching troops down the street, their aim is no less a tyrannical government.
Thus it remains, and being able to resist tyranny is more relevant than ever.

Never in the history of humanity have so many been exterminated by tyrants as in the last century, and frankly, that shows no signs of just going away.

As usual, you nail it, @Smokin Joe.

This is the essence of the message that is being resisted by our opponents, whether in your post above, or in the OP video.

I see them in three classes, those that:

- place political expediency above all,
- truly want the RKBA abolished,
- want to "feel good" about themselves by kowtowing to emotion.

I find each of the classes contemptible.  Personally I may be a bit more willing than some to overlook some of the current administration's failings, but when it gets to the point of these sacred Principles being eroded, I draw my line.

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: The Truly Insidious Nature of Red Flag Laws - KrisAnne Hall, JD
« Reply #283 on: August 14, 2019, 12:33:49 pm »
That had just been done magnificently by colonists armed with muskets and rifles with which they were familiar, because they owned them, for the most part. Some of the most significant shots of the war were made by riflemen who knew (and owned) their firearms. In later conflicts, breech loading firearms, metallic cartridges, lever action repeating rifles, Gatling guns, bolt actions, semiautomatic rifles, machine guns, and finally select fire infantry arms have carried the day, each an improvement in the fight against tyrannical governments

I'll admit that you really do have a feel for gun-porn, @Smokin Joe .   Happiness is a warm gun! 

Again: We are not a tyranny, we are a Constitutional republic.    We are not ruled by a king; rather, our government is led by our elected representatives.    What you brand as "tyranny" is just politics.   And the solution for bad politicians is to vote them out.   This insistence that your right to own an arsenal is so you can be prepared to shoot peace officers is an insult to the Founders and the system of SELF-governance they created. 

The 2A by its plain language is obsolete.   The right of citizens to keep (that is, own and store) and bear arms is in service to the "well-regulated militia".    Those are militias organized at the state or local level, and the 2A was an admonition to the federal government that those systems of common defense not be disturbed.   

But the 2A doesn't address the individual right.   Like many,  I consider the right to protect one's self and property to be God-given (that is, a natural right of the individual),  and strongly support the Heller decision's conclusion that the Constitution secures this natural right as it does others, like the rights of privacy and self-determination.   

I've stated before that the individual RKBA derives from the same authority as the Constitution's protection of the right of abortion.   Now before you flip out again, consider this:  The law that has developed around the abortion right is instructive for what SHOULD be the courts' approach to the individual gun right.    Laws regulating abortion must pass the "undue burden" test -  they must not place an undue burden on a woman's free exercise of her right.   A similar test should be applied to the gun right.   If it were,  a whole heck of a lot of gun regulation would be unconstitutional.   

That's why I keep saying that the right deemed secured by Heller should be codified.    Doing so would not only minimize the chance that a future SCOTUS majority will take the right away,  but can also establish the statutory test for determining whether a regulation or restriction of the right is reasonable, or onerous.   
« Last Edit: August 14, 2019, 12:39:54 pm by Jazzhead »
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Re: The Truly Insidious Nature of Red Flag Laws - KrisAnne Hall, JD
« Reply #284 on: August 14, 2019, 12:50:59 pm »
I'll admit that you really do have a feel for gun-porn, @Smokin Joe .   Happiness is a warm gun! 
 

Like I said... You have no idea how very out-of-touch you are with vast, vast tracts of America.


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Re: The Truly Insidious Nature of Red Flag Laws - KrisAnne Hall, JD
« Reply #285 on: August 14, 2019, 12:58:56 pm »
That's why I keep saying that the right deemed secured by Heller should be codified.    Doing so would not only minimize the chance that a future SCOTUS majority will take the right away,  but can also establish the statutory test for determining whether a regulation or restriction of the right is reasonable, or onerous.     

Can only be changed through a Constitutional Amendment:
Quote
Amendment II

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/second_amendment 


Can be changed by a 5-4 Supreme Court Decision:

Quote
In the 2008 case District of Columbia v. Heller, the Supreme Court held that the "Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home."

https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/second_amendment 



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Re: The Truly Insidious Nature of Red Flag Laws - KrisAnne Hall, JD
« Reply #286 on: August 14, 2019, 01:37:56 pm »
Can only be changed through a Constitutional Amendment:

Can be changed by a 5-4 Supreme Court Decision:

The 2nd amendment is the right to self-preservation.  A right that existed LONG before any government came along.  Let them try to take that away and see what happens.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
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Re: The Truly Insidious Nature of Red Flag Laws - KrisAnne Hall, JD
« Reply #287 on: August 14, 2019, 01:48:41 pm »
Can only be changed through a Constitutional Amendment:

Can be changed by a 5-4 Supreme Court Decision:

I'm going to keep posting this until it soaks in!

"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: The Truly Insidious Nature of Red Flag Laws - KrisAnne Hall, JD
« Reply #288 on: August 14, 2019, 02:00:24 pm »
The 2nd amendment is the right to self-preservation.  A right that existed LONG before any government came along.  Let them try to take that away and see what happens.

Unfortunately, it is not.  By its plain language, it is concerned with the common defense, not individual defense.  I agree with your conception of the natural right.   But the issue is whether the Constitution secures that natural right.   That was addressed by Heller,  but that 5-4 ruling can be easily overturned by a future SCOTUS. 

My message through this and other threads is to recognize the tenuous nature of your individual RKBA.  The best way to keep your right is to ensure the Dems don't control the Presidency and Senate.   Adhering to "principles"  and six bits will buy you a cuppa joe.   What is needed is practical political engagement,  not retreat to a mountain or bunker with your guns locked and loaded.   
« Last Edit: August 14, 2019, 02:01:42 pm by Jazzhead »
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Re: The Truly Insidious Nature of Red Flag Laws - KrisAnne Hall, JD
« Reply #289 on: August 14, 2019, 02:09:53 pm »

  What is needed is practical political engagement,  not retreat to a mountain or bunker with your guns locked and loaded.   

@Jazzhead

If the time ever comes when it is time to take up your guns and start marching,only the cowards will head for the hills. Patriots will either head for state capitals or for DC,and will be taking ropes with them when they leave home.

I SINCERELY hope the first place any of them head for when they get there are airports (especially private airports),bus stations,and train stations. They also need to set up roadblocks and encircle the towns they march on to keep the rats from leaving the sinking ships. After all,if you are forced to go to the trouble of marching on the traitorous politicians,the ropes need the opportunatiy to dance in the wind.
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Re: The Truly Insidious Nature of Red Flag Laws - KrisAnne Hall, JD
« Reply #290 on: August 14, 2019, 02:14:27 pm »
Quote
But the issue is whether the Constitution secures that natural right.   That was addressed by Heller,  but that 5-4 ruling can be easily overturned by a future SCOTUS. 

No the 2nd Amendment addresses the fact that the right to keep and bear arms is a natural right.

All Heller did was reaffirm that right.  And no future SCOTUS will decision will change that.
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Re: The Truly Insidious Nature of Red Flag Laws - KrisAnne Hall, JD
« Reply #291 on: August 14, 2019, 02:14:29 pm »
Unfortunately, it is not.  By its plain language, it is concerned with the common defense, not individual defense.  I agree with your conception of the natural right.   But the issue is whether the Constitution secures that natural right.   That was addressed by Heller,  but that 5-4 ruling can be easily overturned by a future SCOTUS. 

My message through this and other threads is to recognize the tenuous nature of your individual RKBA.  The best way to keep your right is to ensure the Dems don't control the Presidency and Senate.   Adhering to "principles"  and six bits will buy you a cuppa joe.   What is needed is practical political engagement,  not retreat to a mountain or bunker with your guns locked and loaded.   

 **nononono*
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: The Truly Insidious Nature of Red Flag Laws - KrisAnne Hall, JD
« Reply #292 on: August 14, 2019, 02:24:01 pm »
No the 2nd Amendment addresses the fact that the right to keep and bear arms is a natural right.

All Heller did was reaffirm that right.  And no future SCOTUS will decision will change that.

Hey, it's your guns at stake.   Delude yourself all you want; I'm not your mama.   
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Re: The Truly Insidious Nature of Red Flag Laws - KrisAnne Hall, JD
« Reply #293 on: August 14, 2019, 02:54:08 pm »
Hey, it's your guns at stake.   Delude yourself all you want; I'm not your mama.

You're right it's my guns at stake...which is why I'll never buy into or acquiesce to any of the anti Second Amendment schemes you and other gun grabbers advocate for.
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Offline Jazzhead

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Re: The Truly Insidious Nature of Red Flag Laws - KrisAnne Hall, JD
« Reply #294 on: August 14, 2019, 03:32:49 pm »
You're right it's my guns at stake...which is why I'll never buy into or acquiesce to any of the anti Second Amendment schemes you and other gun grabbers advocate for.

What you call "schemes" are laws passed by the peoples' elected representatives.   If you want to engage in armed rebellion, rather than working within the framework of our constitutional republic to change minds, leaders and laws,  then may you die swiftly and with minimal suffering.   Just so long as no peace officer's family needs to be told their daddy is dead at the hands of a selfish nutjob. 
« Last Edit: August 14, 2019, 03:34:37 pm by Jazzhead »
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Re: The Truly Insidious Nature of Red Flag Laws - KrisAnne Hall, JD
« Reply #295 on: August 14, 2019, 03:35:03 pm »
What you call "schemes" are laws passed by the peoples' elected representatives.   If you want to engage in armed rebellion, rather than working within the framework of our constitutional republic to change minds, leaders and laws,  then may you die swiftly and with minimal suffering.   Just so long as no peace officer's family needs to be told their daddy is dead at the hands of a selfish nutjob.

That sure ain't how that's gonna work.

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: The Truly Insidious Nature of Red Flag Laws - KrisAnne Hall, JD
« Reply #296 on: August 14, 2019, 03:35:57 pm »
That sure ain't how that's gonna work.

And how is it going to work, sir? 
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Re: The Truly Insidious Nature of Red Flag Laws - KrisAnne Hall, JD
« Reply #297 on: August 14, 2019, 03:38:16 pm »
That sure ain't how that's gonna work.

SHHHH!!!  Let him think the LEOs are going to be on his side.
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Re: The Truly Insidious Nature of Red Flag Laws - KrisAnne Hall, JD
« Reply #298 on: August 14, 2019, 03:39:08 pm »
What you call "schemes" are laws passed by the peoples' elected representatives.   If you want to engage in armed rebellion, rather than working within the framework of our constitutional republic to change minds, leaders and laws,  then may you die swiftly and with minimal suffering.   Just so long as no peace officer's family needs to be told their daddy is dead at the hands of a selfish nutjob.

I see you've spread your arrogant extremism to another thread...no wonder it's up to 12 pages now.

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Re: The Truly Insidious Nature of Red Flag Laws - KrisAnne Hall, JD
« Reply #299 on: August 14, 2019, 03:43:49 pm »
Passing laws is one thing. Forcing compliance in many cases is another. I suspect either a law will be passed that will lead to both sides satisfactions or both sides unhappy

 And I don't  believe there’s army of peace officers that want to shoot a gun owner simply for wanting to own a gun anymore than there’s an army of gun owners wanting to shoot peace officers

We don’t have a tradition of blind obedience to a federal government. And I don’t understand the people who flippantly talk about shooting and/or arresting gun owners to force compliance or shooting police officers just doing their job. I guess the further right you go you eventually become the left

« Last Edit: August 14, 2019, 03:48:43 pm by LMAO »
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