The Truly Insidious Nature of Red Flag Laws - KrisAnne Hall, JD

[skeeter]

Why should I care about what you think when your avatar depicts a kid with a load in his pants?     

Thats wasn't a load, it was a Sig P2022.

[Jazzhead]

Thats wasn't a load, it was a Sig P2022.

 

[LMAO]

I don’t own many guns

I’m not a member of the NRA

It would be great where anybody who wanted to harm somebody else with a gun would  never be able to do it

But in the case where I am being asked do I want to trust bureaucrats or my guns, I think I’ll have to go with my guns

[thackney]

It would be great where anybody who wanted to harm somebody else with a gun wind never be able to do it

Make that the goal.

[Bigun]

Armed Real Estate Agent Shoots Attacker at House Showing

https://www.secondamendmentdaily.com/2019/08/armed-real-estate-agent-shoots-attacker-at-house-showing/

[Maj. Bill Martin]

Hah!    If you truly believe that the 2A is the bulwark that secures our freedoms,  then don't do stupid stuff that will result in the demise of the 2A.

Too many here are too stubborn to believe it,  but the individual RKBA - the right that secures your natural right to defend you person and your personal property -  exists by reason of a 5-4 SCOTUS majority.  That's it.  That's all.   The decision affirming the individual right was joined by each conservative SCOTUS member,  and rejected by every liberal one.   

There is no question in my mind that if a Dem President and Senate is elected in 2020,  and Clarence Thomas or another conservative steps down,  then the Heller decision will be overturned and the 2A interpreted to not secure the individual right.  States will be free to ban whole classes of weapons and otherwise prohibit that what you take for granted now.    That is what is at stake in this election.  And yet many are promising to stay home if the President, in reaction to a wave of mass shootings,  dares to support doing something about it that would inconvenience gun owners in a minor way.   

Gun owners have the political clout to secure the Presidency for the Democrats,  and some appear willing and even eager to do that.   But you do so at your peril.  Your rights hang by a thread. 

Don't be fools   

@Jazzhead

So let's say a radical Muslim - a citizen born in this country -- owns legally purchased firearms, starts talking on social media about how he is getting ready to kill infidels, and is amassing weapons and ammo to do so.  Again, all weapons and ammo are legally owned.  Oh yeah, and lets add to it that his sister has called the police, says that her brother is mentally ill and off his meds, and that she's afraid he's going to do something violent.

Do we have to station cops around his house and tail him 24/7 indefinitely in the event that this is the day he decides to follow through on his threats?  Or do we just wait until he starts shooting people to do something about him having guns and ammo?

Because those are the kind of questions a Republican candidate is going to be asked if he states a blanket opposition to any red flag law.

[thackney]

@Jazzhead

So let's say a radical Muslim who entered this country legally and owns legally purchased firearms, starts talking on social media about how he is getting ready to kill infidels, and is amassing weapons and ammo to do so.  Again, all weapons and ammo are legally owned.  Oh yeah, and lets add to it that his sister has called the police, says that her brother is mentally ill and off his meds, and that she's afraid he's going to do something violent.

Do we have to station cops around his house and tail him 24/7 indefinitely in the event that this is the day he decides to follow through on his threats?  Or do we just wait until he starts shooting people to do something about him having guns and ammo?

Because those are the kind of questions a Republican candidate is going to be asked if he states a blanket opposition to any red flag law.

If given due process and is determined to be a substantial risk to others, he should not be left in public to drive a truck through a crowd on the sidewalk.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

If given due process and is determined to be a substantial risk to others, he should not be left in public to drive a truck through a crowd on the sidewalk.

So you're saying we should be able to take his truck away from him?  Okay.

Should he be permitted to keep his guns and ammo?

[Bigun]

@Jazzhead

So let's say a radical Muslim who entered this country legally and owns legally purchased firearms, starts talking on social media about how he is getting ready to kill infidels, and is amassing weapons and ammo to do so.  Again, all weapons and ammo are legally owned.  Oh yeah, and lets add to it that his sister has called the police, says that her brother is mentally ill and off his meds, and that she's afraid he's going to do something violent.

Do we have to station cops around his house and tail him 24/7 indefinitely in the event that this is the day he decides to follow through on his threats?  Or do we just wait until he starts shooting people to do something about him having guns and ammo?

Because those are the kind of questions a Republican candidate is going to be asked if he states a blanket opposition to any red flag law.

First and foremost ALL of his potential victims should have the ability to defend themselves.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

First and foremost ALL of his potential victims should have the ability to defend themselves.

That's nice, but it doesn't answer the question.

Should he be able to keep those guns and ammo, or not?

[thackney]

Should he be permitted to keep his guns and ammo?

If he is intent on harming others, he is the risk, not the legally obtained guns and ammo.

To pretend he could not get others illegally is silly.  He is the risk, not the tools.

[thackney]

So you're saying we should be able to take his truck away from him?  Okay.

No, he should be taken away from society.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

If he is intent on harming others, he is the risk, not the legally obtained guns and ammo.

To pretend he could not get others illegally is silly.  He is the risk, not the tools.

Okay, you didn't answer the question either.  Should be be able to keep his guns and ammo, or not?

[Maj. Bill Martin]

No, he should be taken away from society.

Oh.  So you're okay with gun owners being locked up -- just not having their guns taken away?  And for exactly how long do we keep them locked up?

[Bigun]

That's nice, but it doesn't answer the question.

Should he be able to keep those guns and ammo, or not?

Yes, he should until such time as he shows intent to use one or more in the commission of a crime.

[thackney]

Oh.  So you're okay with gun owners being locked up -- just not having their guns taken away?  And for exactly how long do we keep them locked up?

It is not about gun owners, it is about threatening others with substantiated proof he is a real threat to others. 

Don't take away just their guns and pretend society is safe.  That is foolish.

[roamer_1]

Oh.  So you're okay with gun owners being locked up -- just not having their guns taken away?  And for exactly how long do we keep them locked up?

2 hrs and 500 bucks, and he's got another gun. Now what?

[Elderberry]

So let's say a radical Muslim who entered this country legally and owns legally purchased firearms, starts talking on social media about how he is getting ready to kill infidels, and is amassing weapons and ammo to do so.  Again, all weapons and ammo are legally owned.  Oh yeah, and lets add to it that his sister has called the police, says that her brother is mentally ill and off his meds, and that she's afraid he's going to do something violent.

Do we have to station cops around his house and tail him 24/7 indefinitely in the event that this is the day he decides to follow through on his threats?  Or do we just wait until he starts shooting people to do something about him having guns and ammo?

Because those are the kind of questions a Republican candidate is going to be asked if he states a blanket opposition to any red flag law.

In this case, take his citizenship away and deport him.

[Jazzhead]

Interesting that some here prefer taking a man's freedom away (at great expense to the taxpayer) before taking his gun away.   

[thackney]

Interesting that some here prefer taking a man's freedom away (at great expense to the taxpayer) before taking his gun away.

Yes, he is either a real threat to others or he is not.  The gun is not the problem, he is.

Mass Murder without Guns
https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/08/mass-murder-without-guns/

...Even today, there are a lot of non-firearm mass murders in America: In USA Today’s collection of mass murders for the period 2006 to 2017, nearly a quarter were done without guns. And most of them you have probably not heard about because they do not advance the Left’s cause of disarming the peasants....

[Maj. Bill Martin]

Yes, he should until such time as he shows intent to use one or more in the commission of a crime.

Yes.

Well, that's where we differ.  Your position is that a Muslim radical who has amassed guns and ammo, posted online about his desire to kill infidels, and whose sister has said he is off his meds and a danger to others, should be able to keep his guns and ammo as a matter of right, without any kind of process available to potentially deprive him of those before he kills a bunch of people.

I don't.

[Jazzhead]

2 hrs and 500 bucks, and he's got another gun. Now what?

Sure, because he can just buy one off the back of a truck.

All transfers of ownership should take place through the medium of a licensed gun dealer.   

[Maj. Bill Martin]

In this case, take his citizenship away and deport him.

Assume he's a citizen.  There are naturally born American citizens who become radicalized.  Can't deport them.

Are you okay with him keeping those guns, or not?

[thackney]

Sure, because he can just buy one off the back of a truck.

All transfers of ownership should take place through the medium of a licensed gun dealer.   

Absolutely, then just like all drugs, all sales would go through a registered pharmacists or licensed dealer.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

2 hrs and 500 bucks, and he's got another gun. Now what?

Maybe yes, maybe not.  If he's clearly off his rocker, he may have a tough time getting another gun and all that ammo.

But I assume that means you're also fine with leaving him with all his guns and ammo as well.  Right?