Author Topic: Kushner Reveals Immigration Reform Plan  (Read 3810 times)

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rangerrebew

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Kushner Reveals Immigration Reform Plan
« on: April 29, 2019, 10:53:51 am »
Kushner Reveals Immigration Reform Plan

    2019-04-25 Source: TTN by: TTN Staff
 


President Trump's son-in-law and top advisor, Jared Kushner, has revealed his plan for immigration reform.

According to The Daily Caller:

    Kushner, President Donald Trump’s son-in-law and senior advisor, formulated a tactic to immigration reform, and he hopes to present a legislative form of the plan to Trump within the coming days. The package essentially takes a two-pronged approach to immigration reform.


Read more at http://trumptrainnews.com/articles/kushner-reveals-immigration-reform-plan#TGVftVFUFCvyxjdI.99

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Kushner Reveals Immigration Reform Plan
« Reply #1 on: April 29, 2019, 12:53:57 pm »
It's actually a three prong approach.

FTA quoting the Daily Caller:

Quote
The first part of the plan tackles legal immigration into the U.S., with Kushner looking to limit the number of low-skilled migrants who enter the country based on family ties. In their place, high-skilled foreign nationals would be encouraged to join the U.S. workforce under an immigration program that is more similar to the merit-based systems seen in Australia, Canada and New Zealand, CNN reported.

The second part of the proposal pertains to border security. Trump’s son-in-law hopes to build more barrier walls on the U.S. southern border in areas that see high levels of illegal immigration. He also wants to modernize ports of entry so everything coming into the country is scanned, preventing anything illegal from getting past immigration enforcement.

 Changes to asylum laws and seasonal guest worker programs are also included in the plan. Kushner, who has already discussed the issue with a group of GOP senators, has worked with a number of top immigration experts inside and outside of the White House.

Read more at http://trumptrainnews.com/articles/kushner-reveals-immigration-reform-plan#UTYxY5PR7z8F0L3i.99

Offline skeeter

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Re: Kushner Reveals Immigration Reform Plan
« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2019, 12:57:21 pm »
Its a relief to see an 'immigration reform plan' that actually deals with reforming the immigration system and not merely offering normalization to illegals. That may be next, but it wasn't mentioned here.

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Kushner Reveals Immigration Reform Plan
« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2019, 01:21:52 pm »
Who represents the bigger threat to American workers - the low-skilled immigrants who do jobs most Americans won't do, or the high-skilled immigrants who employers can hire at the expense of Americans who spent years educating themselves?   

And what about implementing e-Verify or something similar, with real consequences for employers who hire unauthorized workers?   
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Offline skeeter

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Re: Kushner Reveals Immigration Reform Plan
« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2019, 01:29:00 pm »
Who represents the bigger threat to American workers - the low-skilled immigrants who do jobs most Americans won't do, or the high-skilled immigrants who employers can hire at the expense of Americans who spent years educating themselves?   

And what about implementing e-Verify or something similar, with real consequences for employers who hire unauthorized workers?   

The bigger threat to American workers, who want only to be left alone to build their own lives, is the low wage, under-educated immigrant who is far more susceptible to the siren song of socialist politicians, rather than higher skilled immigrants who will naturally have 'skin' in the free market, capitalist game.

Of course those currently taking advantage of cheap labor will strenuously object because the current system fills their pocket (at the expense of the rest of us).



Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Kushner Reveals Immigration Reform Plan
« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2019, 02:02:35 pm »
Skeeter, my grandparents all came to this country as "low wage, undereducated" immigrants, fleeing bad times in their home countries.   Perhaps yours did, too.   Folks like my grandparents built this nation (literally - my one grandfather was a carpenter and the other was a plumber),  and they started families who successfully assimilated to become Americans.

I'd much rather give a chance to a migrant escaping oppression,  with the courage to leave familiar surroundings and strive even in low-wage jobs to get started.   It's situations where American tech workers who are forced to train their foreign-born replacements only to then get laid off that give me pause.   

   

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Offline skeeter

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Re: Kushner Reveals Immigration Reform Plan
« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2019, 02:20:15 pm »
Skeeter, my grandparents all came to this country as "low wage, undereducated" immigrants, fleeing bad times in their home countries.   Perhaps yours did, too.   Folks like my grandparents built this nation (literally - my one grandfather was a carpenter and the other was a plumber),  and they started families who successfully assimilated to become Americans.

I'd much rather give a chance to a migrant escaping oppression,  with the courage to leave familiar surroundings and strive even in low-wage jobs to get started.   It's situations where American tech workers who are forced to train their foreign-born replacements only to then get laid off that give me pause.   


My immigrant ancestors came before the social welfare state and identity politics.

Look, if you don't see whats happening all around - how these low skilled, un-educated immigrants are being organized into voting blocks and used to instigate socialism, how immigration is being used to reform American society into something more politically malleable and dependent, I can't help you. There must be other reasons you say what you do on this subject. I believe you're intelligent enough to not see whats plainly going on.



« Last Edit: April 29, 2019, 02:21:05 pm by skeeter »

Offline Victoria33

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Re: Kushner Reveals Immigration Reform Plan
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2019, 02:36:26 pm »
ping

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Kushner Reveals Immigration Reform Plan
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2019, 02:44:14 pm »
We simply disagree,  skeeter.  I don't question your intelligence or your "hidden" motives.     I see employers unable to get folks to harvest crops,  maintain lawns and grounds,  and take care of the elderly.    The focus of immigration policy should be permit employers to get the workers they need,  and engage them legally.   Some of that may be in high tech, but that's where there are Americans willing to work and have invested in education to gain those opportunities.   Mostly, the need is for lower skilled workers,  for jobs Americans won't do. 

 The history of American immigration is that assimilation has always occurred, after a generation.   The nativists decried the Irish and the Italians a century ago just as they fear Hispanic immigration today.   Get over it.  This is America, a nation founded and made great by immigrants.  Your ancestors.  My ancestors.   It will all work out all right, so long as immigration is controlled and legal.   
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Offline Sanguine

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Re: Kushner Reveals Immigration Reform Plan
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2019, 02:52:29 pm »
We simply disagree,  skeeter.  I don't question your intelligence or your "hidden" motives.     I see employers unable to get folks to harvest crops,  maintain lawns and grounds,  and take care of the elderly.    The focus of immigration policy should be permit employers to get the workers they need,  and engage them legally.   Some of that may be in high tech, but that's where there are Americans willing to work and have invested in education to gain those opportunities.   Mostly, the need is for lower skilled workers,  for jobs Americans won't do. 

This is simply not correct.  Unskilled illegal aliens replace unskilled American workers because they can be paid less than the American workers and the extra costs (public education, health care, etc.) can be displaced onto American taxpayers.  If these jobs paid what the market would bear and had to hire legally, there would be workers for those jobs.

Quote
The history of American immigration is that assimilation has always occurred, after a generation.   The nativists decried the Irish and the Italians a century ago just as they fear Hispanic immigration today.   Get over it.  This is America, a nation founded and made great by immigrants.  Your ancestors.  My ancestors.   It will all work out all right, so long as immigration is controlled and legal.

Except that study after study shows that immigrants from third world latin countries tend to not assimilate well, and in many cases, are less successful than were their parents. 

Offline aligncare

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Re: Kushner Reveals Immigration Reform Plan
« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2019, 02:58:33 pm »
Let’s get something straight. America is not ‘a nation of immigrants’, we’re a nation of citizens.

Pass muster and this nation will welcome you in and give you a chance to join us and become a citizen.


Offline skeeter

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Re: Kushner Reveals Immigration Reform Plan
« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2019, 03:10:12 pm »
We simply disagree,  skeeter.  I don't question your intelligence or your "hidden" motives.     I see employers unable to get folks to harvest crops,  maintain lawns and grounds,  and take care of the elderly.    The focus of immigration policy should be permit employers to get the workers they need,  and engage them legally.   Some of that may be in high tech, but that's where there are Americans willing to work and have invested in education to gain those opportunities.   Mostly, the need is for lower skilled workers,  for jobs Americans won't do. 

 The history of American immigration is that assimilation has always occurred, after a generation.   The nativists decried the Irish and the Italians a century ago just as they fear Hispanic immigration today.   Get over it.  This is America, a nation founded and made great by immigrants.  Your ancestors.  My ancestors.   It will all work out all right, so long as immigration is controlled and legal.

I worded my post wrongly - I respect your intelligence, which is why your refusal to see the clear evidence of the role out of control immigration system is having as our society becomes increasingly unglued society flummoxed me. Empty platitudes notwithstanding.

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Kushner Reveals Immigration Reform Plan
« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2019, 03:25:12 pm »
This is simply not correct.  Unskilled illegal aliens replace unskilled American workers because they can be paid less than the American workers and the extra costs (public education, health care, etc.) can be displaced onto American taxpayers.  If these jobs paid what the market would bear and had to hire legally, there would be workers for those jobs.

The thread topic is the reform of laws with respect to legal immigration.   What to do with the festering 30-year problem with uncontrolled illegal immigration is a separate subject.   Iillegals have flocked here because there is no effective way for many employers to get the workers they need for unskilled or seasonal jobs from the pool of willing, legal workers.   Illegals here are in response to demand for their labor.   The goal of legal immigration reform should be to get employers the workers they need without having to resort to illegals.

Quote
Except that study after study shows that immigrants from third world latin countries tend to not assimilate well, and in many cases, are less successful than were their parents.

Citations, please.   Hispanics tend to be culturally conservative and make fine citizens.   But it doesn't surprise me that children of illegals may not assimilate as well as others.  Illegals by necessity must live in ghettos for mutual support and are unable to fully participate in civic life.   
« Last Edit: April 29, 2019, 03:28:23 pm by Jazzhead »
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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Kushner Reveals Immigration Reform Plan
« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2019, 03:40:52 pm »
The thread topic is the reform of laws with respect to legal immigration.   What to do with the festering 30-year problem with uncontrolled illegal immigration is a separate subject.   

Nice try, Sparky.  But as to be expected, you are wrong.  This proposal most definitely addresses illegal immigration.  The wall ... asylum laws (catch and release).  And adjunct to this will be chain migration and lottery visas.

Back away from the flaming globalism masquerading as virtue signaling before you set your hair on fire.

Offline skeeter

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Re: Kushner Reveals Immigration Reform Plan
« Reply #14 on: April 29, 2019, 04:06:28 pm »
Hispanics tend to be culturally conservative and make fine citizens.   But it doesn't surprise me that children of illegals may not assimilate as well as others.  Illegals by necessity must live in ghettos for mutual support and are unable to fully participate in civic life.

So say you, I'll take your over generalized word for it.

And I say they should show they have something to offer all of us as a nation, and not just unscrupulous employers and opportunistic socialists, before being allowed to come here.

Sounds like we've reached an agreement.

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Kushner Reveals Immigration Reform Plan
« Reply #15 on: April 29, 2019, 04:20:25 pm »
Nice try, Sparky.  But as to be expected, you are wrong.  This proposal most definitely addresses illegal immigration.  The wall ... asylum laws (catch and release).  And adjunct to this will be chain migration and lottery visas.

Back away from the flaming globalism masquerading as virtue signaling before you set your hair on fire.

Ever comprehend basic economics?    You can't get a handle on illegal immigration by reducing, as Kushner proposes,  legal immigration with respect to the lower-skilled, lower wage employees that employers need most.   Illegal immigration is merely supply that meets a demand.   If that demand can't be met legally,  the illegals will continue streaming here.   To the employers that hire them, and the consumers who need those employers' services, they're heroes.   Because the alternative is to let crops rot in the field,  and force families into poverty caring for their elders.   
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Offline Sanguine

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Re: Kushner Reveals Immigration Reform Plan
« Reply #16 on: April 29, 2019, 04:21:05 pm »
The thread topic is the reform of laws with respect to legal immigration.   What to do with the festering 30-year problem with uncontrolled illegal immigration is a separate subject.   Iillegals have flocked here because there is no effective way for many employers to get the workers they need for unskilled or seasonal jobs from the pool of willing, legal workers.   Illegals here are in response to demand for their labor.   The goal of legal immigration reform should be to get employers the workers they need without having to resort to illegals.

See @Right_in_Virginia 's response, below.

Quote
Citations, please.   Hispanics tend to be culturally conservative and make fine citizens.   But it doesn't surprise me that children of illegals may not assimilate as well as others.  Illegals by necessity must live in ghettos for mutual support and are unable to fully participate in civic life.

OK, if I produce the citations, @Jazzhead, you will accept them, correct?

Offline EdJames

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Re: Kushner Reveals Immigration Reform Plan
« Reply #17 on: April 29, 2019, 04:22:10 pm »
We simply disagree,  skeeter.  I don't question your intelligence or your "hidden" motives.     I see employers unable to get folks to harvest crops,  maintain lawns and grounds,  and take care of the elderly.    The focus of immigration policy should be permit employers to get the workers they need,  and engage them legally.   Some of that may be in high tech, but that's where there are Americans willing to work and have invested in education to gain those opportunities.   Mostly, the need is for lower skilled workers,  for jobs Americans won't do. 

 The history of American immigration is that assimilation has always occurred, after a generation.   The nativists decried the Irish and the Italians a century ago just as they fear Hispanic immigration today.   Get over it.  This is America, a nation founded and made great by immigrants.  Your ancestors.  My ancestors.   It will all work out all right, so long as immigration is controlled and legal.

@Jazzhead

Your post confuses me.  I am assuming that you are say, 50 years old, or above.  And that you grew up in America.

Don't you remember how things were in your childhood?

unable to get folks to harvest crops have you no recollection of how this was done?  I grew up on a family farm, we harvested all of our crops without ever once employing an illegal alien.  First of all the whole family pitched in, once we were about 10 years old we pretty much did the same tasks as the adults (albeit to a lesser skill and output level).  Also, we helped each other out.  A group of families would spend a weekend on a neighbor's property getting their harvest under control.  The next week it was someone else's patch.  And if there was still a need for more labor, other folks from the town or relatives from out of the area would also come in.

maintain lawns and grounds do you not remember how this was done before the influx of illegal aliens?  First off, most homeowners that were not relatively wealthy with large properties did most of this themselves.  Others that couldn't or preferred to hire out the work found any number of service providers will to do the work for a reasonable fee.  In fact, doing yardwork and grass cutting was one of the jobs that teens could often do very successfully to earn spending money during the summers and vacations.  We didn't have any problems keeping lawns trimmed and yards maintained.

take care of the elderly again, no recollection of how this was done?  For the most part the elderly moved in with family when they reached the point that they could no longer take care of themselves (if they already weren't living under the same roof as their kids).  We also had nursing homes available for those that couldn't be taken care of by the family.  They existed, they were operated and staffed by Americans.  They charged a fee and provided the services.

There are countless other examples as how we as Americans took care of all of these things that you wave your banner of "jobs that Americans won't do..." at...

So, as I said, when I see posts like this I am left scratching my head....  does the person have no memory of how life in the United States was in the 1950s, 1960s, or earlier?  Are they too young to remember?  Did they grow up in another country?  Do they truly believe what they are saying?  Are they spinning a yarn that is convenient to back up their desires?  Are they making excuses for how they wish things to be?

 :shrug:

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Kushner Reveals Immigration Reform Plan
« Reply #18 on: April 29, 2019, 04:23:18 pm »
So say you, I'll take your over generalized word for it.

And I say they should show they have something to offer all of us as a nation, and not just unscrupulous employers and opportunistic socialists, before being allowed to come here.

Sounds like we've reached an agreement.

And what did your ancestors offer the nation?   What did mine?    Hard work and the ambition to improve one's life circumstances.    I'll take the immigrant striver every time over the fat, complacent American.   
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Offline skeeter

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Re: Kushner Reveals Immigration Reform Plan
« Reply #19 on: April 29, 2019, 04:24:39 pm »
Ever comprehend basic economics?    You can't get a handle on illegal immigration by reducing, as Kushner proposes,  legal immigration with respect to the lower-skilled, lower wage employees that employers need most.   Illegal immigration is merely supply that meets a demand.   If that demand can't be met legally,  the illegals will continue streaming here.   To the employers that hire them, and the consumers who need those employers' services, they're heroes.   Because the alternative is to let crops rot in the field,  and force families into poverty caring for their elders.   

By the way, less than 2% of the illegals now in the country are involved in agriculture. So you need to drop this particular canard from your library.

Offline skeeter

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Re: Kushner Reveals Immigration Reform Plan
« Reply #20 on: April 29, 2019, 04:26:12 pm »
And what did your ancestors offer the nation?   What did mine?    Hard work and the ambition to improve one's life circumstances.    I'll take the immigrant striver every time over the fat, complacent American.   

Nice. Your view of your countrymen differs very very little from the average leftist's.

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Kushner Reveals Immigration Reform Plan
« Reply #21 on: April 29, 2019, 04:31:23 pm »
@EdJames,   I'm not suggesting we do nothing about illegal immigration.   But the way to do that is to allow more folks to come here legally to go do the things that, in the economy of the 21st century,  need to get done.   If Kushner is proposing to reduce even further legal immigration of the unskilled,  that doesn't staunch demand for those types of jobs.  Maybe you can pitch in,  because you wax so nostalgic about the "good old days".    Or maybe you won't, because you have better things to do with your time, education and skills.    Cue the illegal immigrants - honest (in Dylan's meaning of the term) and hard working.   Where there's demand,  the supply finds its way.   
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Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Kushner Reveals Immigration Reform Plan
« Reply #22 on: April 29, 2019, 04:32:23 pm »
Nice. Your view of your countrymen differs very very little from the average leftist's.

Why should I respect the fat and complacent?   Why shouldn't I respect those who strive?   
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Offline Sanguine

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Re: Kushner Reveals Immigration Reform Plan
« Reply #23 on: April 29, 2019, 04:39:20 pm »
...

OK, if I produce the citations, @Jazzhead, you will accept them, correct?

Yeah, I thought so.  It was a rhetorical question.
Quote
Crime rises among second-generation immigrants as they assimilate  https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2013/10/15/crime-rises-among-second-generation-immigrants-as-they-assimilate/

Quote
Grandkids of Latino immigrants are less educated than their parents. Blame assimilation. https://www.vox.com/2015/2/16/8046073/immigrants-assimilation-education


Quote
Third Generation Disadvantage among Mexican Americans
Vilma Ortiz, Edward Telles
First Published June 8, 2017 Research Article
https://doi.org/10.1177/2332649217707223
Article information
Abstract

Among Mexican Americans, generational differences in education do not fit with assimilation theory’s predictions of significant improvement from the second to third generation; instead, education for third generation remains similar to the second generation and falls behind that of non-Hispanic whites. Scholars have not examined this educational gap for recent cohorts, nor have they considered a wide range of economic outcomes by generation. Using a nationally representative sample of young adults from the National Educational Longitudinal Survey, we examine various educational and economic outcomes among second- and third-generation Mexican Americans and compare it to whites and blacks. We find that third-generation Mexican Americans have similar outcomes to the second generation and lower education and economic levels than whites and blacks, even when controlling for key factors. Our findings reveal limitations to assimilation theory and suggest that the persistent low status of third-generation Mexican Americans may be largely due to their racialization. These findings coupled with prior research on Mexican Americans point to a consistent pattern of third generation disadvantage, which stands in contrast to second generation advantage.  https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/2332649217707223

Quote
Latino youth, however, have a long road to travel to
achieve parity with nonimmigrants. By the third
generation, some differences remain: Latinos are 0.80
times as likely as nonimmigrants to be the child of the
household and 1.5 times as likely to have a live birth as
nonimmigrants.
The advancement of Latinos in some demographic
outcomes stalls or reverses. Progress stalls for Latinas
after the second generation in the relative odds of having a
child. When it comes to being the child of the
householder, after the elimination of the disparities with
nonimmigrants in the second generation, differences
reemerge in the third.   https://www.urban.org/sites/default/files/publication/22991/413239-Immigrant-Youth-Outcomes-Patterns-by-Generation-and-Race-and-Ethnicity.PDF

Quote
Hispanics in the U.S. Labor Market: A Tale of Three Generations*
Pia M. Orrenius
Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas
2200 N. Pearl St.
Dallas, TX, 75201
pia.orrenius@dal.frb.org
Madeline Zavodny
University of North Florida
1 UNF Drive
Jacksonville, FL 32224
m.zavodny@unf.edu
May 2018
Abstract
Immigrants’ descendants typically assimilate toward mainstream social and economic outcomes
across generations. Hispanics in the United States are a possible exception to this pattern. Although
there is a growing literature on intergenerational progress, or lack thereof, in education and
earnings among Hispanics, there is little research on employment differences across immigrant
generations. Using data from 1996 to 2017, this study reveals considerable differences in
Hispanics’ employment rates across immigrant generations. Hispanic immigrant men tend to have
higher employment rates than non-Hispanic whites and second- and third-plus generation
Hispanics. Hispanic immigrant women have much lower employment rates, but employment rates
rise considerably in the second generation. Nonetheless, U.S.-born Hispanic women are less likely
than non-Hispanic white women to work. The evidence thus suggests segmented assimilation, in
which the descendants of Hispanic immigrants have worse outcomes across generations. While
relatively low education levels do not appear to hamper Hispanic immigrants’ employment, they
play a key role in explaining low levels of employment among Hispanic immigrants’ descendants.
Race and selective ethnic attrition may also contribute to some of the patterns uncovered here.
https://www.dallasfed.org/-/media/documents/research/papers/2018/wp1809.pdf

Quote
Summary | The Integration of Immigrants into American Society | The ...
https://www.nap.edu/read/21746/chapter/2

Earnings assimilation is considerably slower for Hispanic (predominantly Mexican) ... Second generation Mexican men were also less likely than their immigrant ... stalling among Asian ...

Quote
Generations of Exclusion: Mexican Americans, Assimilation and Race
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/288473947_Generations_of_Exclusion_Mexican_Americans_Assimilation_and_Race

    Anonymous View

According to a longitudinal study, third and fourth generation Mexican Americans show a decline in educational attainment despite initial gains in the second ...

Here you go.

Offline EdJames

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Re: Kushner Reveals Immigration Reform Plan
« Reply #24 on: April 29, 2019, 04:52:17 pm »
@EdJames,   I'm not suggesting we do nothing about illegal immigration.   But the way to do that is to allow more folks to come here legally to go do the things that, in the economy of the 21st century,  need to get done.   If Kushner is proposing to reduce even further legal immigration of the unskilled,  that doesn't staunch demand for those types of jobs.  Maybe you can pitch in,  because you wax so nostalgic about the "good old days".    Or maybe you won't, because you have better things to do with your time, education and skills.    Cue the illegal immigrants - honest (in Dylan's meaning of the term) and hard working.   Where there's demand,  the supply finds its way.

As I suspected you have no answers for the legitimate questions raised.

I've "pitched in" my whole life.  Never hired an illegal alien in any business that I owned.  All of our elderly relatives lived with family and passed away at home (with the exception of a couple that were hospitalized right before death).  I've always maintained my own property.  Kept about an acre of grass mowed like a golf course on my last 6+ acre patch.  Kept another acre cut down enough to keep the varmints out, rest was wooded.  Planted and maintained seasonable plantings and decorations down by the road every year.  All by myself.

Now I mow my little 1/4 acre plot with a battery powered push mower.  Keep all the plants and trees in good condition and still do seasonable displays to make the frontage nice.  All by myself.