Trump just lost a lot of leverage in the shutdown

[Right_in_Virginia]

Trump just lost a lot of leverage in the shutdown
The Washington Post, Jan 24, 2019, Aaron Blake

Thursday’s votes on President Trump’s and the Democrats' plans to end the month-long government shutdown were never going to succeed. But they sure seem to have reduced Trump’s leverage.

Six Republican senators wound up voting for the Democrats' plan to reopen the federal government through Feb. 8 without any wall funding. The measure still failed, falling eight votes shy of the required 60, but it got more votes (52-44) than Trump’s own plan (50-47). And that’s despite Republicans having six more senators.

(On the GOP plan, only West Virginia’s Joe Manchin III broke with the Democrats, while immigration hard-liners Mike Lee of Utah and Tom Cotton of Arkansas voted against the proposal.)

The Republicans who voted against the GOP plan were Sens. Lamar Alexander (Tenn.), Susan Collins (Maine), Cory Gardner (Colo.), Johnny Isakson (Ga.), Lisa Murkowski (Alaska) and Mitt Romney (Utah).

While the measure failed, the Republican crossovers are significant. Shutdowns are about both sides holding the line — and that’s especially the case on the GOP side. Trump is demanding $5.7 billion in border wall funding or he won’t reopen the government, but six GOP senators just served notice that they won’t hold that line with him.


More:  https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/01/24/trump-just-lost-key-leverage-shutdown/?noredirect=on

[Right_in_Virginia]

While the measure failed, the Republican crossovers are significant. Shutdowns are about both sides holding the line — and that’s especially the case on the GOP side. Trump is demanding $5.7 billion in border wall funding or he won’t reopen the government, but six GOP senators just served notice that they won’t hold that line with him.

Why am I only reading posts and editorials excoriating the President but the six who pulled the rug out from under him skate?

[Night Hides Not]

Why am I only reading posts and editorials excoriating the President but the six who pulled the rug out from under him skate?

It's elementary, @Right_in_Virginia . He's the President, the Big Dog, and they ain't.

Pulled the rug from under him? After all his tweets, his bloviating, his personal attacks on those who aren't on his train, he never took the necessary actions to get his signature issue enacted.

[Right_in_Virginia]

It's elementary, @Right_in_Virginia . He's the President, the Big Dog, and they ain't.

Six GOP Senators said no to funding the wall, and you still find a way to blame the President. 

We're all going to be in a world of hurt if this continues.   

Including you.   

[EdJames]

Why am I only reading posts and editorials excoriating the President but the six who pulled the rug out from under him skate?

Because many still dwell in a fantasyland in which they believe that political parties are actually meaningful in representing a collection of interests, and not just an element of the theater that passes for national politics.  In that fantasyland the "leader of the GOP" is supposedly to be able to rally the troops and get them to all perform according to the promises that they made to get elected or re-elected.  In that fantasyland their true motivations of self enrichment and their total reliance on, and obedience to, their donors is supposed to disappear if the "leader" speaks to them in hushed and reverent tones.

[Axeslinger]

Six GOP Senators said no to funding the wall, and you still find a way to blame the President. 

We're all going to be in a world of hurt if this continues.   

Including you.   

@Right_in_Virginia

We’re also going to be in a world of hurt because of the fawning sycophants who can’t EVER blame the president for anything.   Has your silly brain for an instant ever pondered why if “always blaming the president” is wrong then never blaming the president is also wrong?  You are utterly ridiculous!

[Right_in_Virginia]

@Right_in_Virginia

We’re also going to be in a world of hurt because <NOPE> like yourself can’t EVER blame the president for anything.   Has <NOPE> for an instant ever pondered why if “always blaming the president” is wrong then never blaming the president is also wrong?  <NOPE>.


Figure out a way to make your point without personal insults.

Good morning @Axeslinger , AKA my favorite stalker.      

Listen, if I've not said it before, forgive me for that lapse, but I don't think it's fair I live rent free in your head.  I assure you I can afford to pay  --- especially for such a small and vacant property.

So send me a bill, sweetie, and let me at least help pay the cost of your meds.   

[aligncare]

Because many still dwell in a fantasyland in which they believe that political parties are actually meaningful in representing a collection of interests, and not just an element of the theater that passes for national politics.  In that fantasyland the "leader of the GOP" is supposedly to be able to rally the troops and get them to all perform according to the promises that they made to get elected or re-elected.  In that fantasyland their true motivations of self enrichment and their total reliance on, and obedience to, their donors is supposed to disappear if the "leader" speaks to them in hushed and reverent tones.

Excellent take.

Trump’s NT’s/RINO detractors have only nays to say. Naysaying a conservative republican president is not a constructive plan for defeating the Left. It’s the path to destruction.

[Night Hides Not]

@Right_in_Virginia

We’re also going to be in a world of hurt because <NOPE> like yourself can’t EVER blame the president for anything.   Has <NOPE> for an instant ever pondered why if “always blaming the president” is wrong then never blaming the president is also wrong?  <NOPE>.


Figure out a way to make your point without personal insults.

@Axeslinger , to be fair we need to analyze what Trump has achieved on border security over the past 25 months, to include partially shutting down the federal government for over a month.

IMO, there were a lot of tweets, a lot of speeches, a fair number of political rallies/speeches...time that could have been spent actually working to form a coalition that would have advanced his signature issue.

Instead, the President's loyal base prefer to point fingers at 6 Senators for his inability to get the job done. The President has a lot of arrows in his quiver, but those take time and work to be effective. It's more fun to tweet and fly around in AF1, and have rallies with thousands of adoring fans wearing their MAGA hats and t-shirts.

Ronald Reagan had a much more difficult path to enacting his legislative agenda. Perhaps Trump would have been well served to study the Reagan Presidency for clues on how to assemble coalitions.

[Night Hides Not]

Excellent take.

Trump’s NT’s/RINO detractors have only nays to say. Naysaying a conservative republican president is not a constructive plan for defeating the Left. It’s the path to destruction.

Quoting BG Anthony McAuliffe, "Nuts".

Put another way, doing the same thing over and over again while expecting different results is insanity. However, your Dear Leader is saying "it's off to the races."

[Right_in_Virginia]

.... to be fair we need to analyze what Trump has achieved on border security over the past Ronald Reagan had a much more difficult path to enacting his legislative agenda. Perhaps Trump would have been well served to study the Reagan Presidency for clues on how to assemble coalitions. 

So now you're advocating for amnesty?   

[Axeslinger]

Good morning @Axeslinger , AKA my favorite stalker.      

Listen, if I've not said it before, forgive me for that lapse, but I don't think it's fair I live rent free in your head.  I assure you I can afford to pay  --- especially for such a small and vacant property.

So send me a bill, sweetie, and let me at least help pay the cost of your meds.   

@Right_in_Virginia

Darlin’ it’s you that need the meds because you live in some alternate reality.  I’d pay to see the cage match between you and @ LegalAmerican for who gets to have trumps love child.

[EdJames]

Excellent take.

Trump’s NT’s/RINO detractors have only nays to say. Naysaying a conservative republican president is not a constructive plan for defeating the Left. It’s the path to destruction.

More on the topic: http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,349181.msg1901711.html#msg1901711

[Night Hides Not]

So now you're advocating for amnesty?   

I thought that's what Trump was offering, in the form of a 3 year extension.

Your pithy one liners are no substitute for intelligent conversation. Your critical thinking skills are in critical need of overhaul.

[Axeslinger]

@Axeslinger , to be fair we need to analyze what Trump has achieved on border security over the past 25 months, to include partially shutting down the federal government for over a month.

IMO, there were a lot of tweets, a lot of speeches, a fair number of political rallies/speeches...time that could have been spent actually working to form a coalition that would have advanced his signature issue.

Instead, the President's loyal base prefer to point fingers at 6 Senators for his inability to get the job done. The President has a lot of arrows in his quiver, but those take time and work to be effective. It's more fun to tweet and fly around in AF1, and have rallies with thousands of adoring fans wearing their MAGA hats and t-shirts.

Ronald Reagan had a much more difficult path to enacting his legislative agenda. Perhaps Trump would have been well served to study the Reagan Presidency for clues on how to assemble coalitions.

@Night Hides Not

I’m willing to give him credit for the shutdown.  I’m glad he was willing to take it there.  I wish he’d have actually fought the WHOLE fight though.   As I said on another thread this am:

Where I’m upset  with trump on this one is that he did not use all the tools in his arsenal to “encourage” the Dems (and the RINOs)  to see the light. 

He had other tools he could have used to squeeze them:

Hold illegals seeking asylum indefinitely until the case is resolved.

Any illegal who is deported cannot return. If they do it’s a felony.

Anyone without legal residency cannot receive federal aid.

Crackdown on funding going to sanctuary cities.

All of these are within the President's power.  All are backed by law.  And he had an easy response to the wailing and gnashing of teeth that would have ensued: “I’m merely enforcing the laws that Congress passed”

The only card he played was “I want $5B and I’m ok w partially closing the govt”. So while he operated in good faith and the Dems did not, he did not fight nearly as hard as many here would like to think.

[Night Hides Not]

@Night Hides Not

I’m willing to give him credit for the shutdown.  I’m glad he was willing to take it there.  I wish he’d have actually fought the WHOLE fight though.   As I said on another thread this am:

Where I’m upset  with trump on this one is that he did not use all the tools in his arsenal to “encourage” the Dems (and the RINOs)  to see the light. 

He had other tools he could have used to squeeze them:

Hold illegals seeking asylum indefinitely until the case is resolved.

Any illegal who is deported cannot return. If they do it’s a felony.

Anyone without legal residency cannot receive federal aid.

Crackdown on funding going to sanctuary cities.

All of these are within the President's power.  All are backed by law.  And he had an easy response to the wailing and gnashing of teeth that would have ensued: “I’m merely enforcing the laws that Congress passed”

The only card he played was “I want $5B and I’m ok w partially closing the govt”. So while he operated in good faith and the Dems did not, he did not fight nearly as hard as many here would like to think.

Great points, @Axeslinger . However, those take hard work and diligence to see through, while Trump prefers the easy way out by tweeting and glad handing his loyal MAGAmobs.

[edpc]

So now you're advocating for amnesty?   

Wow - is this really where you want to go?

You cannot possibly be buoyed by this. He's indicating he's open to amnesty, under a larger deal. It's the exact thing Coulter and people here are worried he'll do.

Buoyed?  No.  But am I accepting that neither the judiciary nor the court of public opinion will permit DACA "protectees" living years in this country to be summarily rounded up and marched across the border, or live the rest of their lives as a perpetual second class in America?  Yes.   

This is not the time for an offer of citizenship, which is why the President has not proposed it.

It will be put on the table when we can get something for it beyond the wall ... like ending chain migration, birthright citizenship and lottery immigration. 

No one ever said cleaning up a forty year mess would be easy.  This is an effort for neither the faint-hearted or the obstinate.

http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,348416.msg1894428.html#msg1894428

[Right_in_Virginia]

I thought that's what Trump was offering, in the form of a 3 year extension.

Your pithy one liners are no substitute for intelligent conversation. Your critical thinking skills are in critical need of overhaul.

Pithy or not, what I posted is true.  President Reagan granted amnesty.  President Trump's offer included a 3 year extension of current protections (against deportation).  This did not and does not include citizenship and all the rights bestowed with it -- either automatically or via a defined path.  Hence, no amnesty @Night Hides Not

[roamer_1]

Excellent take.

Trump’s NT’s/RINO detractors have only nays to say. Naysaying a conservative republican president is not a constructive plan for defeating the Left. It’s the path to destruction.

He is not conservative.

[dfwgator]

He is not conservative.

If he's not conservative, then who is?

[roamer_1]

If he's not conservative, then who is?

Start in federalism and civil libertarianism, with sound fiscal conservatism...
If you can show me any of that in him, you may have an argument.

But you can't so you don't.

I don't need to give you a 'who'. Judge him according to principle, not according to comparison. This isn't hard to ascertain - He is not conservative in the least - by the numbers.

You might argue he is a moderate, somewhere left or right of center, and maybe have an argument.
But no, he is the same NYC liberal he has always been.

[dfwgator]

Start in federalism and civil libertarianism, with sound fiscal conservatism...
If you can show me any of that in him, you may have an argument.

But you can't so you don't.

I don't need to give you a 'who'. Judge him according to principle, not according to comparison. This isn't hard to ascertain - He is not conservative in the least - by the numbers.

You might argue he is a moderate, somewhere left or right of center, and maybe have an argument.
But no, he is the same NYC liberal he has always been.

I meant do you see any viable Conservative candidates out there?

Understand what the Left has just accomplished over the years.  They have managed to discourage most good people from even wanting to get involved in politics.    This is what we have to work with.   I believe, Trump, whatever his faults may be, decided to step into the breech and to take the arrows he knew surely would come.   I give him a lot of credit for that, even though he's far from "perfect".  But he isn't a skilled politician, and unfortunately that may be his undoing.   But I'm still rooting for him.

[DB]

I meant do you see any viable Conservative candidates out there?

Understand what the Left has just accomplished over the years.  They have managed to discourage most good people from even wanting to get involved in politics.    This is what we have to work with.   I believe, Trump, whatever his faults may be, decided to step into the breech and to take the arrows he knew surely would come.   I give him a lot of credit for that, even though he's far from "perfect".  But he isn't a skilled politician, and unfortunately that may be his undoing.   But I'm still rooting for him.

Not anymore. The better ones are damaged goods now. The "win" came at a cost.

[edpc]

I meant do you see any viable Conservative candidates out there?

I’m interested in seeing what Tom Cotton does. He’s 41, so he’s got time to wait until 2024.

[dfwgator]

Not anymore. The better ones are damaged goods now. The "win" came at a cost.

McCain and Romney did more to damage the brand in their losing than Trump's winning did.