Author Topic: Trump just lost a lot of leverage in the shutdown  (Read 4152 times)

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Offline libertybele

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Re: Trump just lost a lot of leverage in the shutdown
« Reply #25 on: January 28, 2019, 01:00:30 am »
Six GOP Senators said no to funding the wall, and you still find a way to blame the President. 

We're all going to be in a world of hurt if this continues.   

Including you.   happy77

Honestly some of us realized we were in a world a hurt the second Cruz lost the nomination to Trump.
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Offline txradioguy

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Re: Trump just lost a lot of leverage in the shutdown
« Reply #26 on: January 28, 2019, 01:06:13 am »
McCain and Romney did more to damage the brand in their losing than Trump's winning did.

Not by a long shot.  Trump went scorched earth on the entire GOP. 
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

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Offline roamer_1

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Re: Trump just lost a lot of leverage in the shutdown
« Reply #27 on: January 28, 2019, 01:11:28 am »
I meant do you see any viable Conservative candidates out there?


No... But that is because it is off-season, and I am out of the loop (and will remain so). I won't even be looking anymore until they throw their hat in the ring - Then I will dissect their records more than their promises from the stump, and see who I might back.

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Understand what the Left has just accomplished over the years. 

They have accomplished nothing - They don't win on principle. They win because they have no opposition.

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They have managed to discourage most good people from even wanting to get involved in politics.   

That much may be true - But I don't blame it very much on liberals. I blame it on mere Republicans, who actively settle for less and less - 'The lesser of two evils', as the mantra goes, which has left us with nothing but evil. It is considered untoward, according to Republican preachers, to actually insist upon the good.

And I will blame it on naked populism, and absurd hero worship, and all the other hallmarks of pragmatism, which needs only plausible deniability to suspend disbelief, and push all the chips to the center of the table to bet on fantasy.

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This is what we have to work with.   

Nope. This is what we CHOSE to work with. Just desserts.

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I believe, Trump, whatever his faults may be, decided to step into the breech and to take the arrows he knew surely would come.   I give him a lot of credit for that, even though he's far from "perfect".  But he isn't a skilled politician, and unfortunately that may be his undoing.   But I'm still rooting for him.

I believe nothing of the kind. I believe his record, which spells 'back-east NYC liberal', and that in bold case. He is a man lacking character, and as such, does not have the wherewithal to govern according to principles and rule-sets, by his very nature. His undoing is fore-ordained, and is as simple as this: He is not Conservative, is not governed by conservative principles, and is lacking integrity - ergo, he will fail, just as every other Republican president and congress failed since Reagan (with the exception of the 94 congress, for a little while).


Offline roamer_1

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Re: Trump just lost a lot of leverage in the shutdown
« Reply #28 on: January 28, 2019, 01:13:59 am »
Not anymore. The better ones are damaged goods now. The "win" came at a cost.

That's right. And many of them washed out by Tumpy himself... A lot of conservatives went through his administration like poop through a goose - An administration largely staffed by Wall Street now.

Offline roamer_1

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Re: Trump just lost a lot of leverage in the shutdown
« Reply #29 on: January 28, 2019, 01:15:02 am »

I’m interested in seeing what Tom Cotton does. He’s 41, so he’s got time to wait until 2024.

I like Cotton alright... but I hope he goes and plays governor for a while.

Offline dfwgator

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Re: Trump just lost a lot of leverage in the shutdown
« Reply #30 on: January 28, 2019, 01:16:00 am »


I believe nothing of the kind. I believe his record, which spells 'back-east NYC liberal', and that in bold case. He is a man lacking character, and as such, does not have the wherewithal to govern according to principles and rule-sets, by his very nature. His undoing is fore-ordained, and is as simple as this: He is not Conservative, is not governed by conservative principles, and is lacking integrity - ergo, he will fail, just as every other Republican president and congress failed since Reagan (with the exception of the 94 congress, for a little while).

Well then, this country is pretty much screwed.  Which is the conclusion I reached back in 2012.  Trump I suppose gave me a brief respite from believing that.

Offline roamer_1

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Re: Trump just lost a lot of leverage in the shutdown
« Reply #31 on: January 28, 2019, 01:16:38 am »
McCain and Romney did more to damage the brand in their losing than Trump's winning did.

NOPE.
It was Tumpy the Clown that rode roughshod over the TEA Party and destroyed the massive gains made during Obummmer.

Offline roamer_1

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Re: Trump just lost a lot of leverage in the shutdown
« Reply #32 on: January 28, 2019, 01:24:37 am »
Well then, this country is pretty much screwed.  Which is the conclusion I reached back in 2012.  Trump I suppose gave me a brief respite from believing that.

That's pretty true. But it is because Republicans don't stand up or even stand at all.
I had high hopes during Obama, His second election year, the TEA Party overturned nearly every state house... massive gains - I was extremely active in that, and that followed on with a rising star of the TEA Party, Cruz, ascending to challenge for the presidency... Things were really looking up for a while.

But it can't happen anymore through the Republicans... No more grassroots Conservatives can win there.

@INVAR  is exactly right - the only way forward is to abandon the Republicans and raise up another party that will actually stand and fight. Not slap-happy cat fights and finger-pointing like Tumpy does... But actually standing upon Conservative principles and giving no quarter.

Offline libertybele

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Re: Trump just lost a lot of leverage in the shutdown
« Reply #33 on: January 28, 2019, 04:40:02 am »
That's pretty true. But it is because Republicans don't stand up or even stand at all.
I had high hopes during Obama, His second election year, the TEA Party overturned nearly every state house... massive gains - I was extremely active in that, and that followed on with a rising star of the TEA Party, Cruz, ascending to challenge for the presidency... Things were really looking up for a while.

But it can't happen anymore through the Republicans... No more grassroots Conservatives can win there.

@INVAR  is exactly right - the only way forward is to abandon the Republicans and raise up another party that will actually stand and fight. Not slap-happy cat fights and finger-pointing like Tumpy does... But actually standing upon Conservative principles and giving no quarter.

Yes things were really looking up for a while. Enter DJT.  He took out Cruz.  I'm still not 100% sure, if he was merely a pawn for the DEMS to take out Cruz or he legitimately wanted to be president.
 
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Offline Chosen Daughter

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Re: Trump just lost a lot of leverage in the shutdown
« Reply #34 on: January 28, 2019, 06:11:55 am »
Because many still dwell in a fantasyland in which they believe that political parties are actually meaningful in representing a collection of interests, and not just an element of the theater that passes for national politics.  In that fantasyland the "leader of the GOP" is supposedly to be able to rally the troops and get them to all perform according to the promises that they made to get elected or re-elected.  In that fantasyland their true motivations of self enrichment and their total reliance on, and obedience to, their donors is supposed to disappear if the "leader" speaks to them in hushed and reverent tones.

It the dysfunction of government.  Trump promised the world but he knew what government was about.  He was no virgin in politics as some people believed.  He knew it inside and out, and how it could work for his business.  He bought votes just like all the other lobbyists do.  So he was well aware. 

Some of us sounded the warning bell.  You can't seriously say you believed he didn't realize that politicians opposed securing the border.  How many years on both sides of the party have we allowed this?  For Trump to think he was going to ride in and save the day would be unbelievable.  He must have at least known that there would be opposition and that he would really have had to been the "deal maker".

So to excuse Trump is to say his fairy tale didn't come true.  If you don't have the skills to negotiate then that was all it was.  A show.  A fairy tale that people wanted to believe.

I still hope that somehow he recovers his bargaining chips and does something about illegal immigration.

And also it was no secret that many illegals worked on Trump projects and in his hotels and golf courses. 
« Last Edit: January 28, 2019, 06:16:28 am by Chosen Daughter »
AG William Barr: "I'm recused from that matter because one of the law firms that represented Epstein long ago was a firm that I subsequently joined for a period of time."

Alexander Acosta Labor Secretary resigned under pressure concerning his "sweetheart deal" with Jeffrey Epstein.  He was under consideration for AG after Sessions was removed, but was forced to resign instead.

Offline dfwgator

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Re: Trump just lost a lot of leverage in the shutdown
« Reply #35 on: January 28, 2019, 06:20:52 am »
Yes things were really looking up for a while. Enter DJT.  He took out Cruz.  I'm still not 100% sure, if he was merely a pawn for the DEMS to take out Cruz or he legitimately wanted to be president.

I like Cruz, I think he's a fine Senator.   But I just don't think he would have beaten Hillary.     Of course, we'll never know, but that's just how I saw it.

Offline DB

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Re: Trump just lost a lot of leverage in the shutdown
« Reply #36 on: January 28, 2019, 06:22:04 am »
It the dysfunction of government.  Trump promised the world but he knew what government was about.  He was no virgin in politics as some people believed.  He knew it inside and out, and how it could work for his business.  He bought votes just like all the other lobbyists do.  So he was well aware. 

Some of us sounded the warning bell.  You can't seriously say you believed he didn't realize that politicians opposed securing the border.  How many years on both sides of the party have we allowed this?  For Trump to think he was going to ride in and save the day would be unbelievable.  He must have at least known that there would be opposition and that he would really have had to been the "deal maker".

So to excuse Trump is to say his fairy tale didn't come true.  If you don't have the skills to negotiate then that was all it was.  A show.  A fairy tale that people wanted to believe.

I still hope that somehow he recovers his bargaining chips and does something about illegal immigration.

And also it was no secret that many illegals worked on Trump projects and in his hotels and golf courses.

He imported them for one of his projects and got caught and had to pay fines. Ya, that guy...

Offline jpsb

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Re: Trump just lost a lot of leverage in the shutd
« Reply #37 on: January 28, 2019, 06:41:03 am »

Ronald Reagan had a much more difficult path to enacting his legislative agenda. Perhaps Trump would have been well served to study the Reagan Presidency for clues on how to assemble coalitions.

Let's not forget that Reagan gave us our open borders problem with his 1986 amnesty.

Offline roamer_1

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Re: Trump just lost a lot of leverage in the shutd
« Reply #38 on: January 28, 2019, 06:42:45 am »
Let's not forget that Reagan gave us our open borders problem with his 1986 amnesty.

Yeah... except bullcrap.

Offline DB

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Re: Trump just lost a lot of leverage in the shutd
« Reply #39 on: January 28, 2019, 06:46:41 am »
Let's not forget that Reagan gave us our open borders problem with his 1986 amnesty.

And the odds are Trump is going to do the same thing with the same result.

Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

Offline jpsb

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Re: Trump just lost a lot of leverage in the shutdown
« Reply #40 on: January 28, 2019, 06:55:53 am »
Yes things were really looking up for a while. Enter DJT.  He took out Cruz.  I'm still not 100% sure, if he was merely a pawn for the DEMS to take out Cruz or he legitimately wanted to be president.

Cruz just barely won reelection in the very red state of Texas, lying Ted will never win a national election. He is a
phony and a fraud and most of the country knows it. FYI, I voted for Ted but I can't wait for Dan Patrick or Greg
Abbott to take him on in a primary.

Offline jpsb

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Re: Trump just lost a lot of leverage in the shutd
« Reply #41 on: January 28, 2019, 07:01:12 am »
And the odds are Trump is going to do the same thing with the same result.

Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

Reagan gave amnesty to all the illegals in the USA. You think Trump is going to do the same? No freakin way.

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Trump just lost a lot of leverage in the shutdown
« Reply #42 on: January 28, 2019, 11:52:56 am »
Why am I only reading posts and editorials excoriating the President but the six who pulled the rug out from under him skate?

@Right_in_Virginia

It's Yellow Journalism,AKA "Agenda reporting."
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Offline txradioguy

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Re: Trump just lost a lot of leverage in the shutd
« Reply #43 on: January 28, 2019, 03:48:06 pm »
Yeah... except bullcrap.

Everyone forgets a lot of this started with the Hart-Celler Act in 1965.  That piece of legislation put us on the path we're on now.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

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Online Free Vulcan

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Re: Trump just lost a lot of leverage in the shutdown
« Reply #44 on: January 28, 2019, 03:59:15 pm »
He has indeed lost alot of leverage by blinking. He can recover, but it's going to be harder now.

Stop trying to make deals. It's time to go for the kill and scorch some earth.
The Republic is lost.

Offline roamer_1

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Re: Trump just lost a lot of leverage in the shutd
« Reply #45 on: January 28, 2019, 04:06:26 pm »
Everyone forgets a lot of this started with the Hart-Celler Act in 1965.  That piece of legislation put us on the path we're on now.

YEP. Illegal aliens were a problem long before Reagan. That's why there were millions to be given amnesty. And while Reagan didn't like amnesty any more than we do, the idea was to clear the books and start over and get it right.

Reagan is precisely why I am entirely immovable on the illegal immigration issue.

Them Congressional bastards stood on either side of Reagan sagely nodding their heads, committing themselves to the idea that it was a ONE TIME thing, and that with a clean slate, they were going to solve the problem and fix the issue, to include border security.

That was the compromise. And one HELLUVA compromise. There should not, and will not be anymore.

Reagan was the bargain. They laid word on that deal. I will hold em to it till I die.
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« Last Edit: January 28, 2019, 04:07:21 pm by roamer_1 »

Offline XenaLee

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Re: Trump just lost a lot of leverage in the shutdown
« Reply #46 on: January 28, 2019, 04:10:06 pm »
He has indeed lost alot of leverage by blinking. He can recover, but it's going to be harder now.

Stop trying to make deals. It's time to go for the kill and scorch some earth.

I really don't believe that "leverage" is going to help Trump at this point.  He has removed all doubt from what subs as the Democrats' minds as to how easy it is to get him to back down.  It literally will be all downhill for his policies from now on, I predict.  Looks like he really is 'all talk', no cattle, right about now.  Sad, that.   I still 'want' to believe..... **nononono*
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Offline TomSea

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Re: Trump just lost a lot of leverage in the shutdown
« Reply #47 on: January 28, 2019, 04:14:09 pm »
Cruz just barely won reelection in the very red state of Texas, lying Ted will never win a national election. He is a
phony and a fraud and most of the country knows it. FYI, I voted for Ted but I can't wait for Dan Patrick or Greg
Abbott to take him on in a primary.

It's not a knock on Cruz but beyond words, what is there? He bragged in his campaign about leading the fight against healthcare? How did that go? The courts emasculated Obamacare largely. What record is there? Some supreme court cases as TX AG and batting about .500?  Where's the meat?

« Last Edit: January 28, 2019, 04:19:11 pm by TomSea »

Offline XenaLee

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Re: Trump just lost a lot of leverage in the shutdown
« Reply #48 on: January 28, 2019, 04:38:50 pm »
It's not a knock on Cruz but beyond words, what is there? He bragged in his campaign about leading the fight against healthcare? How did that go? The courts emasculated Obamacare largely. What record is there? Some supreme court cases as TX AG and batting about .500?  Where's the meat?



Funny that you mentioned that "Where's the meat/beef?" bit... since.... this thread is about Trump (not Cruz) and his failure(s) to follow through on his campaign promises.   The (your) hypocrisy here is glaring, btw.
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Trump just lost a lot of leverage in the shutd
« Reply #49 on: January 28, 2019, 05:31:38 pm »
Everyone forgets a lot of this started with the Hart-Celler Act in 1965.  That piece of legislation put us on the path we're on now.

@txradioguy

I,for one,didn't forget it. I never even heard of it. I was too busy jumping out of airplanes and running around in the woods with a rifle and a rucksack to pay much attention to the news.
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