Author Topic: 7 in 10 say US health care system has 'major problems' or is in a 'state of crisis'  (Read 9464 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 56,860
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
First off, I think we are dealing with the Obama Legacy of confusion--confusion over health CARE versus health INSURANCE.

We have great health care, some of the finest facilities and doctors in the world. Affording that care, affording insurance, is what the Government fouled up with the ACA. A large number of us lost our insurance we had judged to be adequate, made a little too much to be subsidized, and were facing huge premiums and unreal deductibles. In my state the premium plus the deductible would have been enough to put a family of our above the poverty line--or below it if you had to pay it.

Get the government out and the market will solve the problem.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline InHeavenThereIsNoBeer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,127
94% of people wouldn't agree the sun rises in the east.

Somebody's lying. 
My avatar shows the national debt in stacks of $100 bills.  If you look very closely under the crane you can see the Statue of Liberty.

Offline edpc

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,879
  • Gender: Male
  • Professional Misanthrope - Briefer and Boxer
Also you're not going to stop universal healthcare in the U.S. It will happen.


Great. We can make it 10 out of 10 who complain, after that.
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Offline Hoodat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 36,676
With universal healthcare you would have a doctor and no insurance.

I prefer my choice of doctor and my choice of insurance at the best quality and lowest price a free market can offer.


We're not going to stop being the best in the world at the shit that we do just because we guarantee healthcare to all citizens.

But you can't guarantee healthcare to all citizens.  You can only guarantee what you choose to offer.  If a patient needs an MRI, and you have chosen not to purchase enough MRI machines, then that patient goes without.  And if a patient needs a $500 medicine, but your government monopoly chose not to include that drug in the list it offers, then that person goes without.  Yet you cling to the lie that everyone gets health care because there is no longer any other system to compare it to.

So as long as there is that alternative, people from all over the world, stuck with a government system that does not provide, will continue to travel to the US at great expense to get the health care that they cannot get at home, thanks to idiots like yourself who actually believe that a government monopoly provides better service at lower cost than a free open market.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Offline LegalAmerican

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,124
  • Gender: Female
,,,a subtitle headline in the POS:

Tell me again how great The Hill.com is, Myst.


...................lol.   :thumbsup:

Health care, now has more minority's IN IT!  What do people expect?   Muslims, blacks, hispanics , Philippines, Indians.

Don't get me going with my own story's about health care from these people!  Dr. Desi, Indian, reused syringes to save on 3 cent expense.  People who went for their colonostomy,  had to be re-tested for possible aids, Hepatitis, etc.  Some were infected, from his procedure.  I was recovering from surgery and heart attack, all the nurses were "brown". Since I was attached to tubes, monitors into the wall and My chest, I needed help to unplug and go to bathroom.  NO ONE CAME.  An office person finally came, secretary, telling me she isn't a nurse, but she could help me. Now they have these "team captains" who come by and ask, how things are going?   Sure, one is the most vulnerable, now tell her how rotten your treatment IS. lol   The LEFT GOT WHAT THEY WANTED...now complain about the results.  We already knew the outcome.
Look at any turd world country and how medicine is done there.  THE LEFT BROUGHT THAT...HERE! OBAMA DID TOO.

Offline LegalAmerican

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,124
  • Gender: Female
First off, I think we are dealing with the Obama Legacy of confusion--confusion over health CARE versus health INSURANCE.

We have great health care, some of the finest facilities and doctors in the world. Affording that care, affording insurance, is what the Government fouled up with the ACA. A large number of us lost our insurance we had judged to be adequate, made a little too much to be subsidized, and were facing huge premiums and unreal deductibles. In my state the premium plus the deductible would have been enough to put a family of our above the poverty line--or below it if you had to pay it.

Get the government out and the market will solve the problem.




...Correct!   888high58888


Offline Hoodat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 36,676
Do you know what will happen when we tax the richest Americans more? They will still be the richest Americans. Somebody get me a tissue; my heart is breaking for these people.

Are you proposing a tax on wealth?  Because currently, the tax on being rich is 0%.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Offline InHeavenThereIsNoBeer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,127
Are you proposing a tax on wealth?  Because currently, the tax on being rich is 0%.

Hey, man, whatever it takes, so long as my stuff is free.
My avatar shows the national debt in stacks of $100 bills.  If you look very closely under the crane you can see the Statue of Liberty.

Offline LegalAmerican

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,124
  • Gender: Female
I prefer my choice of doctor and my choice of insurance at the best quality and lowest price a free market can offer.


But you can't guarantee healthcare to all citizens.  You can only guarantee what you choose to offer.  If a patient needs an MRI, and you have chosen not to purchase enough MRI machines, then that patient goes without.  And if a patient needs a $500 medicine, but your government monopoly chose not to include that drug in the list it offers, then that person goes without.  Yet you cling to the lie that everyone gets health care because there is no longer any other system to compare it to.

So as long as there is that alternative, people from all over the world, stuck with a government system that does not provide, will continue to travel to the US at great expense to get the health care that they cannot get at home, thanks to idiots like yourself who actually believe that a government monopoly provides better service at lower cost than a free open market.


.............. :thumbsup:

Offline LMAO

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15,884
  • Gender: Male

...................lol.   :thumbsup:

Health care, now has more minority's IN IT!  What do people expect?   Muslims, blacks, hispanics , Philippines, Indians.

Don't get me going with my own story's about health care from these people!  Dr. Desi, Indian, reused syringes to save on 3 cent expense.  People who went for their colonostomy,  had to be re-tested for possible aids, Hepatitis, etc.  Some were infected, from his procedure.  I was recovering from surgery and heart attack, all the nurses were "brown". Since I was attached to tubes, monitors into the wall and My chest, I needed help to unplug and go to bathroom.  NO ONE CAME.  An office person finally came, secretary, telling me she isn't a nurse, but she could help me. Now they have these "team captains" who come by and ask, how things are going?   Sure, one is the most vulnerable, now tell her how rotten your treatment IS. lol   The LEFT GOT WHAT THEY WANTED...now complain about the results.  We already knew the outcome.
Look at any turd world country and how medicine is done there.  THE LEFT BROUGHT THAT...HERE! OBAMA DID TOO.

Hmm....

I work with those scary brown Drs and nursing staff and find many of them dedicated and knowledgeable

I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them.

Barry Goldwater

http://www.usdebtclock.org

My Avatar is my adult autistic son Tommy

Offline LegalAmerican

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,124
  • Gender: Female
People still going after the rich?  THEY are about the only ones who pay taxes!   Almost 50 % pay NOTHING, yet receive back as much as 10,000 by EIC and child credit. Based on two kids.

Rich have TWO types of tax to pay, regular then AMT...in case an item was NOT taxed enough!  Keep pushing tax the rich MORE...BECAUSE they don't have to live in the USA. George Clooney.  They do NOT have to provide JOBS for the rest of us.

CRAZY people jealous of the rich.  Make YOURSELF rich.

Offline LMAO

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15,884
  • Gender: Male
Are you proposing a tax on wealth?  Because currently, the tax on being rich is 0%.

Rich people make the same economic decisions as the rest of us. Why are middle class and rich people leaving states like CA, NY, and ILL?

Believing what other people should do is different than what they actually do. One may make a statement that they should be grateful to pay more. But those having to pay it may disagree
I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them.

Barry Goldwater

http://www.usdebtclock.org

My Avatar is my adult autistic son Tommy

Offline Dexter

  • User banned for personal attacks. --CL
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,624
  • Gender: Male
I'm sure there would still be private healthcare available for wealthy people that can actually afford to be picky with their doctors. Something tells me somebody that's struggling to have healthcare at all isn't overly concerned with whether or not their doctor is one of the best on the planet.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2019, 03:06:46 am by Dexter »
"I know one thing, that I know nothing."
-Socrates

Offline The_Reader_David

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,308
I have seen the health care system from both sides of the desk, as it were, since I am the part-time business manager for my wife's part-time psychology practice.  Yes, our health care system has serious problems.  They mostly predate Obamacare, which only slightly exacerbated some of them.

First hint of the problems:  there is something called "the medical billing industry", which neither provides health care nor insurance to cover health care expenses.  Between the AMA , the Federal government (esp. CMS a part of HHS) and the insurance industry (which is regulated by state regulators in what is surely a prime example of the phenomenon of "regulatory capture"), for a physician or allied health professional to be paid, the activity they are being paid for must be classified by a bizarrely complex system involving diagnostic codes and procedure codes.  There is a whole industry of "coders" who are paid by physicians and hospitals to classify their activities for the sake of filing insurance claims -- typically taking in from 8% to 10% of what is collected on the claims.  (Incidentally, the "Medicare for all" proposal the Left has floated will make this worse -- Medicare is the most rigid of all insurance programs in demanding all the niceties of this abominable classification system be adhered to. Amusingly, the easiest insurer I have to deal with is Oklahoma's version of Medicaid -- maybe single-payer, provided it is run by conservative Republicans, might actually work.)

Second hint, reimbursement rates paid by insurers are proprietary and subject to non-disclosure agreements.  How the h*ll can you have a functioning market if price information isn't public?

Third hint,  all cutting-edge medical treatments (both pharmaceuticals and medical devices) are provided by artificial monopolies.  Why?  Because Congress has the power to grant monopolies called "patents" and does so without regulating prices in the public interest as prices of "natural monopolies" such as utilities are regulated by the states. 

And when they behead your own people in the wars which are to come, then you will know what this was all about.

Offline Snarknado

  • Anti
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,542
Of course everyone agrees that it would be great to get quality health care that somebody else pays for, but I don't think that's quite the way it works in Europe. Throw in those 20%+ VAT taxes and then ask people how great they think it would be.

And if you think people are screaming now, wait until you put them on "Medicare-for-all" with monthly premiums higher than many pay now, bare-bones coverage and best-case 80% reimbursement - and most likely a large increase in current payroll tax rates.

Dems always propose higher taxes on the wealthy to pay for every boondoggle, ignoring the obvious problem that you can only take their money once - after that you have to find someone else's money to give away. Europeans at least deserve some credit for being willing to pay a good chunk of the cost of the benefits they vote for themselves. Here the idea of someone paying for their own benefits is heresy...
---
Everything I need to know I learned in GTA

Offline Drago

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 355
  • "Life is a Journey"
Yep the "tax the rich" narrative needs to finally die....do the math...according to Obama and the "lefties" you are "rich" if you earn over $250K/year...according to the IRS/census there are about 2.35 million filers in this category. Taking all of them into account and averaging their income it averages out to about $440K/year...so if you to "tax the rich" at 100% of their income (impossible of course) you would get about $1 trillion in tax revenue. Early in the Obama admin. they were running $1 trillion deficits, and we are still running about $600 billion deficits. So yes, the middle-class always gets soaked because "the rich" are too few to support current ridiculous FedGov spending! And don't start with "tax corporations"...taxes are a "cost of doing business" and are passed along to the end user/customer (usually the middle-class again).

Offline Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 56,860
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
Well one un?intended consequence, is that with government control of health care, social security will be saved....
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline LMAO

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15,884
  • Gender: Male
Yep the "tax the rich" narrative needs to finally die....do the math...according to Obama and the "lefties" you are "rich" if you earn over $250K/year...according to the IRS/census there are about 2.35 million filers in this category. Taking all of them into account and averaging their income it averages out to about $440K/year...so if you to "tax the rich" at 100% of their income (impossible of course) you would get about $1 trillion in tax revenue. Early in the Obama admin. they were running $1 trillion deficits, and we are still running about $600 billion deficits. So yes, the middle-class always gets soaked because "the rich" are too few to support current ridiculous FedGov spending! And don't start with "tax corporations"...taxes are a "cost of doing business" and are passed along to the end user/customer (usually the middle-class again).


@Drago

Don’t you understand that math and economics can be overcome with feelings
I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them.

Barry Goldwater

http://www.usdebtclock.org

My Avatar is my adult autistic son Tommy

Offline Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 56,860
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.

@Drago

Don’t you understand that math and economics can be overcome with feelings
Oh, goody!

I can get that bass boat after all!
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Frank Cannon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26,097
  • Gender: Male
Something tells me somebody that's struggling to have healthcare at all isn't overly concerned with whether or not their doctor is one of the best on the planet.

I hear ya brother. Poor people can go die and get out of the way since when they get sick since they don't give a shit about the quality of care. Glad we finally agree on something.

Offline DB

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13,385
Do you know what will happen when we tax the richest Americans more? They will still be the richest Americans. Somebody get me a tissue; my heart is breaking for these people.

Go F' yourself.

You are a thief.

You steal under the veil of a mob of thieves while claiming you have the moral right to because "they have more than they need". You have no right to other peoples work or property just because you and people like you want it.

You represent the thinking that is driving America into the ground. A basic debasement of morality that undermines everything.

Offline GtHawk

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,848
  • Gender: Male
  • I don't believe in Trump anymore, he's an illusion
How cost prohibitive healthcare is or isn't is an important part of the equation when determining how good healthcare is in my opinion. The average person in Europe gets similar quality healthcare without having to worry about going bankrupt. Healthcare is only better in the states if you're wealthy and can afford the best doctors and procedures.
Aha, do you actually know anyone in Europe that is getting this fine healthcare of which you speak, because I do. I have family in Germany on both the dispensing and receiving side and according to them...............Bolshevik!

Offline GtHawk

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,848
  • Gender: Male
  • I don't believe in Trump anymore, he's an illusion
With universal healthcare you would have a doctor and no insurance. We're not going to stop being the best in the world at the shit that we do just because we guarantee healthcare to all citizens.
You would have, simply put crapcare, ask an elderly woman in England what happens if they are diagosed with breastcancer, they don't even get crapcare they get no care pain pills and a brochure about funerals. Ask a Canadian who needs an MRI what kind of wait they are looking at..........crapcare! Wanna talk Germany? My first cousin is a Gastroenterologist and surgeon ad they are pretty much forced to give crap care.................unless you are one of those migrant thingy people. You want crapcare? then fly off to one of the several countries that already force it on their people and leave our health care alone. Why is that socialist always want to screw up America when there are already plenty of countries screwed up by socialism ready for them?

Offline GtHawk

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,848
  • Gender: Male
  • I don't believe in Trump anymore, he's an illusion
Do you know what will happen when we tax the richest Americans more? They will still be the richest Americans. Somebody get me a tissue; my heart is breaking for these people.
Why don't you move to Venezuela Dexter? Than you can live first in country that followed your plan, you'll be in heaven and can point at all those over taxed people that are still filthy rich....................oh wait, no you won't be able to will you.

Offline LMAO

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15,884
  • Gender: Male
Go F' yourself.

You are a thief.

You steal under the veil of a mob of thieves while claiming you have the moral right to because "they have more than they need". You have no right to other peoples work or property just because you and people like you want it.

You represent the thinking that is driving America into the ground. A basic debasement of morality that undermines everything.

It’s our nature to assume everyone sees the world the same way we do. It’s also our nature to assume we can implement our beliefs onto others and that those others will just follow our dictates as we think they should.

The truth is, as others have pointed out, there isn’t enough rich people to pay for all this. And that’s assuming they go along with much higher taxes without making economic decisions that they feel are in their interests. The result then is more debt.
I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them.

Barry Goldwater

http://www.usdebtclock.org

My Avatar is my adult autistic son Tommy