Author Topic: More millennials are moving back home - and it's making everyone depressed:  (Read 35126 times)

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Online Smokin Joe

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Back in the 80's I knew a gal who kept her Mercedes for over 500K miles, and her dad bought it for her new.

We're pikers, sugar.
570K on the van, the 'pup' of the bunch just turned the clock over again, but I don't know how many times that happened before I got it (1987 Dodge Pickup).
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline RoosGirl

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It was the expense of replacing the sir bags that caused the vehicle to be totaled out. (That insurance consideration is strictly an economic one--expense to repair vs market value, and not necessarily a question of whether the vehicle is functional otherwise.)  In any state where the air bags have to be functional to pass safety inspection, the result would be the same.

Yes, and everyone knows that insurance typically totals out a car for less than what *we* think the car is worth.  So, with a little bit of forethought, he couldn't afford to make up the difference for what insurance isn't going to cover if there was an accident that totaled it, then it wasn't a wise purchase.

Online Smokin Joe

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@Smokin Joe

Yeah, but where can I get a job?  Lacking that, a Welfare check?  Do they do direct deposit?
When I cut back to doing exploration wells, (I got burned out on the Bakken after 150 wells), the jobs were thinned out considerably, but the work is far more interesting. Scientifically, it is more meaningful, simply because what we are doing includes some pretty trick geochemistry, too.
Anyhow, the effect was to cut back to three or four wells a year, which meant the pay was less, overall.
I checked with other companies, but the day rates they were offering (for a 12 hour day away from home, often for the duration) were way too low.
So, in protest to the day rates offered by some companies, I got a job delivering pizzas. It actually pays the bills.
A kid with a car could consider such, and the turnover rate is fairly high. Still, part time jobs are out there, from retail to others, but jobs where people tip are the best because a bright outlook and competence tend to be rewarded directly. Hourly rates are not great, but the gratuities generally make those rates, calculated on an hourly basis, double.
Additionally, it has been an eye-opener to what millennials are going through, economically.
Some are dealing with the 'gee whiz' problem of having the latest gadgets, and that is expensive and a budget wrecker. Some have diverted their resources to alcohol or weed or both, and that unnecessary expense is hurting them. But one guy who came here from Serbia to work for 6 months worked two jobs at relatively low wages, spent little on tech or other luxuries, lived lean, and managed to put away over 30K in 6 months. He will go home to his wife and child, and use the money to buy land and start building a house.

For those willing to endure some "hardship" (older phone, less data plan, older computer, smaller apartment, used furniture, sobriety), it can be done. But if people are caught up in the use of credit to make it appear they are living large when they aren't making large, they are on the path to financial ruin.
It's a question of priorities, budgeting, and how lean someone is willing to live now so they can live better later.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline goodwithagun

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Not what I am seeing, here.

What I see here is that a mechanically capable vehicle is being totaled out because a safety device we did pretty well without when I started driving has deployed, and the State of New York has decided that the car isn't safe to drive without the safety device.

That law doesn't make the vehicle any less suitable for operation, except that arbitrary requirement for the device many of us grew up behind the wheel without.
I drove cars (and still own a couple) without seat belts, air bags, crumple zones, telescoping steering columns, 5 MPH bumpers, padded dashboards (just steel), Anti-lock Braking Systems, traction control, all wheel drive, radial tires, electric door locks, neutral safety switches, or any of a host of even more advanced doohickeys that are supposed to make it easier to avoid or survive a wreck. One even has the (optional) electric starter, crank behind the seat in case the 6 volt battery poops out.

What is taken for granted in a modern automobile is amazing to me, and what is considered essential for a vehicle to be driven has increased in amount, scope, and expense, when in actuality, very little of that stuff is essential to getting the vehicle to go down the road and stop when you want it to.
 
The best safety device remains between the driver's ears, and in some cases that is sadly deficient.
What's more, is that the more the vehicle is relied upon to do, the less the driver has to, and the less raw skill behind the wheel the driver develops. Simply put, the safer the vehicle is, the less so the drivers are.

My overall point is that shit happens to all of us. You wrecked your car? That sucks. I have cancer. I’m not whining about paying parking fees in Pittsburgh every week so that my doc can say, “Looks good!”

Insurance isn’t fair. Air bag replacement isn’t fair. Auto accidents aren’t fair. Cancer isn’t fair.

But I damn sure don’t want anybody else making decisions regarding fairness for me.

Life isn’t fair, but damn is it worth it. Why is labor so painful? Because the beautiful baby is the end result. There is beauty and happiness at the end of the unfair road.

Our friend @Dexter doesn’t get that. He’s a pessimist that only wants and wants and wants. He doesn’t see the beauty in the struggle. I’ll take that struggle over an easy button any day of the week, and twice on Sundays.
I stand with Roosgirl.

Online Smokin Joe

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Yes, and everyone knows that insurance typically totals out a car for less than what *we* think the car is worth.  So, with a little bit of forethought, he couldn't afford to make up the difference for what insurance isn't going to cover if there was an accident that totaled it, then it wasn't a wise purchase.
Regardless of what level he bought in at, if the air bags and laws regarding them trapped him against having to replace them, it wasn't going to work out financially. He'd be better off to find an older (pre air bag) clunker he can fix up, but likely NY has emissions standards which would be tough to comply with. If they are like Colorado, even vehicles with fresh engines which have lower than showroom emissions fail if they don't have all the stock emissions devices in place and operating. Those can be hard to round up, and with some vehicles, changed depending on the week they were produced.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Online Smokin Joe

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My overall point is that shit happens to all of us. You wrecked your car? That sucks. I have cancer. I’m not whining about paying parking fees in Pittsburgh every week so that my doc can say, “Looks good!”

Insurance isn’t fair. Air bag replacement isn’t fair. Auto accidents aren’t fair. Cancer isn’t fair.

But I damn sure don’t want anybody else making decisions regarding fairness for me.

Life isn’t fair, but damn is it worth it. Why is labor so painful? Because the beautiful baby is the end result. There is beauty and happiness at the end of the unfair road.

Our friend @Dexter doesn’t get that. He’s a pessimist that only wants and wants and wants. He doesn’t see the beauty in the struggle. I’ll take that struggle over an easy button any day of the week, and twice on Sundays.
Cancer sucks. Been there, done that, and may be in for a re-match. I hope you beat yours.
You are right in that it is struggle which builds our character, expands our abilities, challenges us to expand our 'comfort zone' when it comes to dealing with life. I wouldn't change that for the  world.
Unfortunately, it is the arbitrary imposition of rules which mandate things which supposedly make life easier/safer/less difficult which, ultimately impose hardships which are simply arbitrary, unnecessary, and ultimately, expensive--and for which those who have never dealt with hardship are unprepared.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline RoosGirl

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Regardless of what level he bought in at, if the air bags and laws regarding them trapped him against having to replace them, it wasn't going to work out financially. He'd be better off to find an older (pre air bag) clunker he can fix up, but likely NY has emissions standards which would be tough to comply with. If they are like Colorado, even vehicles with fresh engines which have lower than showroom emissions fail if they don't have all the stock emissions devices in place and operating. Those can be hard to round up, and with some vehicles, changed depending on the week they were produced.

Buying a less expensive car is what I was getting at.  One closer in value to what insurance would pay off on it if it were totaled, and adjust coverage accordingly.

Offline goodwithagun

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Cancer sucks. Been there, done that, and may be in for a re-match. I hope you beat yours.
You are right in that it is struggle which builds our character, expands our abilities, challenges us to expand our 'comfort zone' when it comes to dealing with life. I wouldn't change that for the  world.
Unfortunately, it is the arbitrary imposition of rules which mandate things which supposedly make life easier/safer/less difficult which, ultimately impose hardships which are simply arbitrary, unnecessary, and ultimately, expensive--and for which those who have never dealt with hardship are unprepared.

That was the intent of my first post on this thread: Millennials are unprepared and now have to suffer the consequences. Their participation trophies won’t replace the 25% of the totaled car that the insurance company won’t cover. Millennials aren’t the first gen to have problems, so these buttercups need to suck it up.
I stand with Roosgirl.

Offline Cyber Liberty

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@Smokin Joe @RoosGirl

Welcome all to the Frugal Outliers Club!  My story is, I have a low mileage, high aged car because I had a ridiculous commute (a mile) and a boring lifestyle.  I'm too lazy and cheap to go out and replace it.

In fact, I'm having trouble justifying replacing it at all, now that my commute has been terminated.  I think I'll sell it for cash and buy a nice roadster when we get moved to our Castle.  Do they still make Lotus?

I know, I know...first world problems.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline Sanguine

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My overall point is that shit happens to all of us. You wrecked your car? That sucks. I have cancer. I’m not whining about paying parking fees in Pittsburgh every week so that my doc can say, “Looks good!”

Insurance isn’t fair. Air bag replacement isn’t fair. Auto accidents aren’t fair. Cancer isn’t fair.

But I damn sure don’t want anybody else making decisions regarding fairness for me.

Life isn’t fair, but damn is it worth it. Why is labor so painful? Because the beautiful baby is the end result. There is beauty and happiness at the end of the unfair road.

Our friend @Dexter doesn’t get that. He’s a pessimist that only wants and wants and wants. He doesn’t see the beauty in the struggle. I’ll take that struggle over an easy button any day of the week, and twice on Sundays.

Beautifully said. 

Offline Cyber Liberty

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My overall point is that shit happens to all of us. You wrecked your car? That sucks. I have cancer. I’m not whining about paying parking fees in Pittsburgh every week so that my doc can say, “Looks good!”

Insurance isn’t fair. Air bag replacement isn’t fair. Auto accidents aren’t fair. Cancer isn’t fair.

But I damn sure don’t want anybody else making decisions regarding fairness for me.

Life isn’t fair, but damn is it worth it. Why is labor so painful? Because the beautiful baby is the end result. There is beauty and happiness at the end of the unfair road.

Our friend @Dexter doesn’t get that. He’s a pessimist that only wants and wants and wants. He doesn’t see the beauty in the struggle. I’ll take that struggle over an easy button any day of the week, and twice on Sundays.

The Journey is the Destination, friend.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Online Smokin Joe

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Buying a less expensive car is what I was getting at.  One closer in value to what insurance would pay off on it if it were totaled, and adjust coverage accordingly.
He would have still been out the 25%, regardless of how much the total amount was.
Granted, a cheaper car would have left more to cover that 25% in the event of an accident.

Why spend more? Some states are pretty anal about what they consider to be a vehicle fit for licensing in their domain. It has to pass emissions testing, it has to have the required safety equipment, etc.
Some states you can get by without emissions tests, and safety inspection covers signals, lights, brakes, horn, and little else.
I would wager New York is one of the more anal states, and it takes a certain amount of buy-in to get a vehicle in good shape outside that will pass the inspections. Less might cost more, in repair costs to keep passing inspection.

Bottom line is that the insurance company would total out any vehicle the airbags deployed on, because of the expense to replace the airbags. The vehicle might be otherwise operational (like my van after replacing the radiator and such) for a fraction of that cost. In my case, the airbags would have cost three times what the mechanical repairs did. Likely that car was in the same situation.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Online Smokin Joe

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@Smokin Joe @RoosGirl

Welcome all to the Frugal Outliers Club!  My story is, I have a low mileage, high aged car because I had a ridiculous commute (a mile) and a boring lifestyle.  I'm too lazy and cheap to go out and replace it.

In fact, I'm having trouble justifying replacing it at all, now that my commute has been terminated.  I think I'll sell it for cash and buy a nice roadster when we get moved to our Castle.  Do they still make Lotus?

I know, I know...first world problems.
Where we got vehicles for years was from rental companies retiring older stock (well maintained, not so expensive) and from estate sales (often garaged, well maintained low mileage older vehicles, commonly large sedans, and not wanted by the kids who were already set with the vehicles they had/wanted). My general metric was how many miles I could expect in the remaining life of the vehicle. Condition of the body, glass, and tires were considered as well. There were some good deals to be had, but you had to do a little legwork.

There may well be some "midlife crisis" buggies out there as well, but ragtops and sports cars generally go for a premium.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Where we got vehicles for years was from rental companies retiring older stock (well maintained, not so expensive) and from estate sales (often garaged, well maintained low mileage older vehicles, commonly large sedans, and not wanted by the kids who were already set with the vehicles they had/wanted). My general metric was how many miles I could expect in the remaining life of the vehicle. Condition of the body, glass, and tires were considered as well. There were some good deals to be had, but you had to do a little legwork.

There may well be some "midlife crisis" buggies out there as well, but ragtops and sports cars generally go for a premium.

Sigh.  I'm sure they do.  I might gt a fix 'm up or something.  We may be fine with Mrs. Liberty's car alone.  We still don't do a lot of stuff, we're just taking weekly road trips to the Castle right now.  I have to decide soon if I can get away with driving the Hybrid up there, because she wants to move the cat herd soon, and we'll need two cars.  It'll need new 16" tires.

Sigh.

More First World Problems.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Online Smokin Joe

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Sigh.  I'm sure they do.  I might gt a fix 'm up or something.  We may be fine with Mrs. Liberty's car alone.  We still don't do a lot of stuff, we're just taking weekly road trips to the Castle right now.  I have to decide soon if I can get away with driving the Hybrid up there, because she wants to move the cat herd soon, and we'll need two cars.  It'll need new 16" tires.

Sigh.

More First World Problems.
Then it'll be re-tired! :silly:

(Not cheap, I have a Tahoe that needs 'new shoes', too...)
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Then it'll be re-tired! :silly:

(Not cheap, I have a Tahoe that needs 'new shoes', too...)

I haven't gone out to price them yet.  What, ~$2K?
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Online Smokin Joe

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I haven't gone out to price them yet.  What, ~$2K?
$500 to 800 for me for the set (Wally World). Aggressive tread, at least 10 ply, 16 inch wheels. But I have to buy the whole set, no going one axle at a time (4WD).
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Cyber Liberty

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$500 to 800 for me for the set (Wally World). Aggressive tread, at least 10 ply, 16 inch wheels. But I have to buy the whole set, no going one axle at a time (4WD).

That's not bad.  I have to do all 4 (and spare I think) because they are old.  Plenty of tread, but they could decap on me.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline sneakypete

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Say what? I have six vehicles on the pavement and the youngest is old enough to vote.

My daily driver in bad weather is a 2016 4x4 pu,but when the weather is nice I usually drive either my 51 Ford Victoria or my 1939 IHC D-2 pu.
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Online Smokin Joe

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That's not bad.  I have to do all 4 (and spare I think) because they are old.  Plenty of tread, but they could decap on me.
Yeah, the compound dries out over time and cracks. Solar exposure just accelerates the process, so covering the tires outside or keeping the vehicle garaged adds life to the tires. Mine have a good 1/4 inch of tread but I caught a nail through a sidewall (somehow) and have to replace the set. On inspection, they are deeply weather checked in the tread, and likely not safe at highway speeds, even though they do great getting around town.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Online Smokin Joe

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My daily driver in bad weather is a 2016 4x4 pu,but when the weather is nice I usually drive either my 51 Ford Victoria or my 1939 IHC D-2 pu.
I have a '41 K model, but it will take some work before I have it back on the road. Daily drivers are from the late 90's GM model block: two Suburbans, a Tahoe, and a Safari van, the 1-ton is for wellsite work, and the '87 Dodge is my utility pickup. Mrs. Joe drives one of the Suburbans, but having a group of vehicles from the same model block means parts are the same and the controls are always familiar.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2018, 03:38:38 am by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Yeah, the compound dries out over time and cracks. Solar exposure just accelerates the process, so covering the tires outside or keeping the vehicle garaged adds life to the tires. Mine have a good 1/4 inch of tread but I caught a nail through a sidewall (somehow) and have to replace the set. On inspection, they are deeply weather checked in the tread, and likely not safe at highway speeds, even though they do great getting around town.

I'll start looking.  That was encouraging.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline sneakypete

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Quote
Insurance isn’t fair. Air bag replacement isn’t fair. Auto accidents aren’t fair. Cancer isn’t fair.

 

@goodwithagun

Next thing I know,you will be trying to tell me that life ain't fair.


Quote
Life isn’t fair,

And there ya are! I think I am going to have to start calling you "Debbie Downer" for harshing my buzz.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2018, 03:41:13 am by sneakypete »
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Online roamer_1

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Not what I am seeing, here.

What I see here is that a mechanically capable vehicle is being totaled out because a safety device we did pretty well without when I started driving has deployed, and the State of New York has decided that the car isn't safe to drive without the safety device.

That law doesn't make the vehicle any less suitable for operation, except that arbitrary requirement for the device many of us grew up behind the wheel without.
I drove cars (and still own a couple) without seat belts, air bags, crumple zones, telescoping steering columns, 5 MPH bumpers, padded dashboards (just steel), Anti-lock Braking Systems, traction control, all wheel drive, radial tires, electric door locks, neutral safety switches, or any of a host of even more advanced doohickeys that are supposed to make it easier to avoid or survive a wreck. One even has the (optional) electric starter, crank behind the seat in case the 6 volt battery poops out.

What is taken for granted in a modern automobile is amazing to me, and what is considered essential for a vehicle to be driven has increased in amount, scope, and expense, when in actuality, very little of that stuff is essential to getting the vehicle to go down the road and stop when you want it to.
 
The best safety device remains between the driver's ears, and in some cases that is sadly deficient.
What's more, is that the more the vehicle is relied upon to do, the less the driver has to, and the less raw skill behind the wheel the driver develops. Simply put, the safer the vehicle is, the less so the drivers are.

Heck yeah. Especially out here... I stacked up hard into an elk, and wrecked the truck one time... A mid 70's Chevy 4x4 3/4T Heavy... Well, the truck was old enough, even at the time, that I didn;t carry full coverage (only liability), so I was in for the damages.

Well, I had just rebuilt the dang thing, so I really didn't want to start over very bad, so I sawed it in half right in front of the firewall, fish-plated a new front section on the frame, threw everything back on, to include a new front clip, hood, and windshield... put it in red primer, and it was back on the road in 3-4 days, and put another 100k miles on it.

Can't do that so much anymore.

Offline musiclady

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There have been so many great posts on this thread. But I love this one and @musiclady 's.

Thanks @berdie and @txradioguy and @mountaineer

But I'm sure you, and everyone else here, has noticed that @Dexter hasn't responded to any of the tough issues I've brought up (or anyone else, for that matter).

He just repeats his rehearsed talking points and ignores every issue that he feels like avoiding because it doesn't fit into his leftist government-makes-us-happy template.

Lots of great points have been made here, but they've gone right over his head.

It's too bad, too, Dexter, because you're a bright guy and have said you're interested in learning from reasonable conservatives, but when push comes to shove, you just can't bring yourself to it.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.