Trump: 'Stop And Frisk' Works, Chicago Should 'Strongly Consider' It

[mystery-ak]

rump: 'Stop And Frisk' Works, Chicago Should 'Strongly Consider' It
"It works, and it was meant for problems like Chicago"

 ByPaul Bois
@paulbois39
October 8, 2018


Fresh off his victory of Judge Brett Kavanaugh's confirmation to the Supreme Court, President Trump doubled-down on his commitment to being the "law and order" president by suggesting Chicago could curtail gun violence by using "stop and frisk" — the famous New York law enabling officers to temporarily detain, question, and frisk civilians upon "reasonable suspicion."

Speaking before law enforcement officials at a convention for the International Association of Chiefs of Police, the president said he will direct Attorney General Jeff Sessions to aid Chicago in the fight against gun violence.

"We want to straighten it out and straighten it out fast. There's no reason for what’s going on there," Trump said, adding that Chicago should "strongly consider stop and frisk."

"It works, and it was meant for problems like Chicago," Trump said. "And Rudy Giuliani, when he was mayor of New York City, had a very strong program of stop and frisk and it went from an unacceptably dangerous city to one of the safest cities in the country and, I think, the safest big city in the country. So it works. Gotta be properly applied, but stop and frisk works."

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https://www.dailywire.com/news/36867/trump-stop-frisk-works-paul-bois

[INVAR]

So much for the 4th Amendment.

Because as you know, you got nothing to fear from the State if you got nothing to hide... right?

[Wingnut]

So much for the 4th Amendment.

Because as you know, you got nothing to fear from the State if you got nothing to hide... right?

Do you own stock in Summers Eve?

[INVAR]

Do you own stock in Summers Eve?

Do you always like to wipe your ass with the Constitution and call it Conservatism?

[Wingnut]

Do you always like to wipe your ass with the Constitution and call it Conservatism?

I know you like wiping yours with a wagon wheel.  The problem is, you never know when to stop.

[INVAR]

I know you like wiping yours with a wagon wheel.  The problem is, you never know when to stop.

Well I do I like being clean.

Better a wagon wheel than the Constitution - but obviously a whole lot of folks prefer using that parchment to wipe than other things.

[goatprairie]

The constitution is also not a suicide pact.
Any sane person knows it's basically one demographic causing 90% of the violence...young, black males.
If people are perfectly fine with them gunning each other down while killing not a small number of innocent people by stray bullets, then fine.

[TomSea]

Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other. John Adams
Read more at: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/john_adams_391045

Does that change the equation any?

[INVAR]

The constitution is also not a suicide pact.
Any sane person knows it's basically one demographic causing 90% of the violence...young, black males.
If people are perfectly fine with them gunning each other down while killing not a small number of innocent people by stray bullets, then fine.

The danger is that government, once having usurped power for itself in the guise of 'keeping us safe', often uses that power to impose greater and greater tyranny - and we the people will have given them the ability to use such a violation of the 4th Amendment as a tool to impose it.

The 'suicide pact' in my estimation is giving government the power to circumvent a Constitutional restriction on our rights.

[goatprairie]

The danger is that government, once having usurped power for itself in the guise of 'keeping us safe', often uses that power to impose greater and greater tyranny - and we the people will have given them the ability to use such a violation of the 4th Amendment as a tool to impose it.

The 'suicide pact' in my estimation is giving government the power to circumvent a Constitutional restriction on our rights.

Fine, I'm waiting for your solution. What do you do with violent situations in many American cities when normal rules/actions don't work?
Many sections of Chicago are like war zones. In my state of Wisconsin, the north side of Milwaukee isn't much different.
If I lived in an area where I had to worry about psychopaths running around shooting at anything that moves, I very much wouldn't mind people being stopped and frisked.
It's getting to the point martial law might have to be used.
So we can have the choice...continue on with the present lawless state in many American cities or take the necessary, harsh measures. I favor the latter.

[INVAR]

Fine, I'm waiting for your solution.

Firstly, The Founders gave us a solution.

Your local government has abolished it in all practicality.

Secondly, why is it that 'Conservatives' at every turn nowadays look to government and the State to provide what is up to yourself to provide?

Your safety is up to you.  Not to armed agents of the state.

If I lived in an area where I had to worry about psychopaths running around shooting at anything that moves, I very much wouldn't mind people being stopped and frisked.

Papieren bitte???  Perhaps you are trusting a government police state - but I sure as hell do not.

You give them this, then no matter where you end up going, stormtroopers are going to stop you and ask for your papers and other idents and you become that more conditioned to being a slave of despotism once the right party and person decides to impose them permanently and kill liberty for good.

So we can have the choice...continue on with the present lawless state in many American cities or take the necessary, harsh measures. I favor the latter.

You may favor a police state.

I do not.

Let this people defend themselves as intended - and we have no need to arm the state to do it for us to 'keep us safe'.

"Only a virtuous people are capable of liberty.   As societies become more corrupt and vicious, they will have more need of masters" - Benjamin Franklin

[goatprairie]

Firstly, The Founders gave us a solution.

Your local government has abolished it in all practicality.

Secondly, why is it that 'Conservatives' at every turn nowadays look to government and the State to provide what is up to yourself to provide?

Your safety is up to you.  Not to armed agents of the state.

Papieren bitte???  Perhaps you are trusting a government police state - but I sure as hell do not.

You give them this, then no matter where you end up going, stormtroopers are going to stop you and ask for your papers and other idents and you become that more conditioned to being a slave of despotism once the right party and person decides to impose them permanently and kill liberty for good.

You may favor a police state.

I do not.

Let this people defend themselves as intended - and we have no need to arm the state to do it for us to 'keep us safe'.

"Only a virtuous people are capable of liberty.   As societies become more corrupt and vicious, they will have more need of masters" - Benjamin Franklin

Favoring tougher measures to stop out of control killings is not favoring a police state. I don't think many liberal New Yorkers complained too much when Giuliani instituted stop and frisk there. It cut down the homicide rate by 75%.
We must recognize that in some parts of the country, violent crime is out of control.
Public safety is paramount. If current laws cannot stop the violence, the law must be changed to protect the public. Frisking likely perps is one such method.
I'm still waiting for your solution to the problem.

[INVAR]

I'm still waiting for your solution to the problem.

I quoted Franklin for you and cited the Second Amendment.

If those are not solution enough then tyranny for you and your posterity is the future - and you will have enabled it because you want the illusion that it kept you safe and maintained order.

I marvel that in this day and age, when we see in our faces the depth of government corruption and misuse of Alphabets that you would even consider giving the State power to do such a thing.

[INVAR]

Today: Stop and Frisk

Tomorrow: Knock and Search

Trump can just ago and get a judge to 'sign' a blanket warrant for unannounced searches and seizures in all homes.  Kinda like a revised version of FISA.

To keep us 'safe'.

Since apparently the 4th and Second Amendment no longer applies, we might as well toss out the 1st also - you know... to keep us safe.  Government will be our 'solution' to everything.

You got nothing to fear if you got nothing hide.

Solution: kiss liberty goodbye.

[goatprairie]

Today: Stop and Frisk

Tomorrow: Knock and Search

Trump can just ago and get a judge to 'sign' a blanket warrant for unannounced searches and seizures in all homes.  Kinda like a revised version of FISA.

To keep us 'safe'.

Since apparently the 4th and Second Amendment no longer applies, we might as well toss out the 1st also - you know... to keep us safe.  Government will be our 'solution' to everything.

You got nothing to fear if you got nothing hide.

Solution: kiss liberty goodbye.

How are you on frisking at airports? I've been frisked a number of times including twice on a recent trip overseas.
Did I feel my rights were violated? I certainly don't like being frisked. But the option of nobody being frisked and a terrorist act committed because nobody wants to be frisked  overrode my discomfort at someone checking me for weapons.
There are times when drastic measures are needed. Stopping out of control violence in major cities is one of these times.

[INVAR]

How are you on frisking at airports? I've been frisked a number of times including twice on a recent trip overseas.

Big difference in boarding an aircraft that can easily be used as a missile and being stopped anytime and anywhere and searched without any recourse.  Of course now that Sessions has expanded CAF, turning cops into Highwaymen, I am sure you will not mind being stopped, frisked and having all your cash confiscated from you because the cops decided that the $100 you have on you was possibly gained by drug sales.

There are times when drastic measures are needed.

Same exact thing Hitler, Mussolini and the rest of the genocidal tyrants in history always tell their people when they disarm them and start their stop and frisk programs.

[goatprairie]

Big difference in boarding an aircraft that can easily be used as a missile and being stopped anytime and anywhere and searched without any recourse.  Of course now that Sessions has expanded CAF, turning cops into Highwaymen, I am sure you will not mind being stopped, frisked and having all your cash confiscated from you because the cops decided that the $100 you have on you was possibly gained by drug sales.

Same exact thing Hitler, Mussolini and the rest of the genocidal tyrants in history always tell their people when they disarm them and start their stop and frisk programs.

Nobody wants unreasonable searches.  Nobody is talking about disarming everybody. But people living in high crime/violence areas are being robbed of their rights as citizens to not have to worry about themselves or family members being gunned down by thugs.
Still waiting for your solution.

[INVAR]

Nobody wants unreasonable searches.  Nobody is talking about disarming everybody.

But that is exactly what will happen when you empower the state to stop, detain and search at it's own discretion. You will have willfully surrendered the 4th Amendment - and given the 2nd is already surrendered up there - you will be at the mercy of the state.

But people living in high crime/violence areas are being robbed of their rights as citizens to not have to worry about themselves or family members being gunned down by thugs.
Still waiting for your solution.

It's called the Second Amendment.

You choose to ignore it because like the Left, you want government to take care of you.

[Sighlass]

The constitution is also not a suicide pact.
Any sane person knows it's basically one demographic causing 90% of the violence...young, black males.
If people are perfectly fine with them gunning each other down while killing not a small number of innocent people by stray bullets, then fine.

Yes and No, yes it is young black males that are often breaking the law (felons with guns), but it is also a "gun free zone" for the most part due to restrictive gun laws that prevent the general public from aptly having a hand in putting the fear of God back in control of the public. 33 percent of the African-American male population are felons (white males around 5%)...

I am going for dropping the gun control and frisking the heck out of black males (and whites that don't know how to wear pants that stay above their knees). How is that for spitting at the constitution and PC narratives at the same time.

[TomSea]

https://graphics.suntimes.com/homicides/

This looks like the stats just from this year.

And a big number killed in their 20s and teens... that's probably important to say as well as a demographic. Not many women's names btw.

[ABX]

Help us big government, you are our only hope.

[goatprairie]

But that is exactly what will happen when you empower the state to stop, detain and search at it's own discretion. You will have willfully surrendered the 4th Amendment - and given the 2nd is already surrendered up there - you will be at the mercy of the state.

It's called the Second Amendment.

You choose to ignore it because like the Left, you want government to take care of you.

Still waiting for your argument on how to stop the violence.

[ABX]

But a serious question-


How can this problem be solved by increasing liberty instead of decreasing it?

[ABX]

Still waiting for your argument on how to stop the violence.

1. Empower free citizens by returning their 2nd Amendment rights to self defense.
2. Take away the power of the drug cartels by eliminating marijuana prohibition - allowing it to compete in the free, legal market to reduce the criminal enterprise behind it.
3. Return the neighborhoods to the citizens by eliminating Chicago's restrictions on neighborhood watch/enforcement.
4. Eliminate or reduce property taxes so there isn't a fear of 'gentrification' preventing poorer communities to grow.
4b. Then, drastically reduce zoning and licensing restrictions on businesses to encourage economic growth in poor neighborhoods. (it is harder to start a small business in Chicago than it is in Communist China)....

...all ways to turn around the poor areas of Chicago while reducing government and increasing liberty.

[INVAR]

Still waiting for your argument on how to stop the violence.

Kill 'em all.  Let God sort them out.

How does that work for you?

I guess the only difference is whether you empower the people to defend themselves or let Government exterminate them in your name so you can feel safe.

An immoral people are incapable of liberty.