Trump: 'Stop And Frisk' Works, Chicago Should 'Strongly Consider' It

[edpc]

But a serious question-


How can this problem be solved by increasing liberty instead of decreasing it?

It’s a bit disconcerting, when we are seriously asking that question.

[ABX]

It’s a bit disconcerting, when we are seriously asking that question.

I think some won't be happy unless they have the federal government roving every street and controlling every right- as long as it isn't their own (of course, when you demand rights be stripped from others, it doesn't take long for you to be the 'other').

I predicted over 2 years ago a giant split in Conservatives- between the authoritarian class and the liberty class. It is getting to the point they can't co-exist under the same party even though they may agree on some individual issues.

[INVAR]

I predicted over 2 years ago a giant split in Conservatives- between the authoritarian class and the liberty class.  It is getting to the point they can't co-exist under the same party even though they may agree on some individual issues.

That has been self-evident for a couple years now. 

They tend to hate us more than they do the Marxist Left.

[ABX]

How are you on frisking at airports? I've been frisked a number of times including twice on a recent trip overseas.

I certainly feel it goes to far, but an airport is private property and you are entering that property with the understanding this is what happens, so it is by choice.

A public street is not private property and being in public is considered liberty of movement. You walk in public without the expectation that your rights will be violated simply for the act of existing.

Did I feel my rights were violated? I certainly don't like being frisked. But the option of nobody being frisked and a terrorist act committed because nobody wants to be frisked  overrode my discomfort at someone checking me for weapons.

What's your line? Maybe they are afraid your neighborhood is too violent and they decide to search your home instead of your person for weapons? What if they determine that your 'speech' is 'hate' or incites violence and decide to tread on that?  Do you even have a line or are you fine with whatever infringement so you can feel safe?

There are times when drastic measures are needed. Stopping out of control violence in major cities is one of these times.

Never let a crisis go to waste?

[ABX]

That has been self-evident for a couple years now. 

They tend to hate us more than they do the Marxist Left.

I hate to say it, but many mirror the Marxist left- as long as it happens to other people. They love when taxes are used against someone or something they don't like. They love when rights are stripped from 'others'. They love to pick and choose what religions have the right to exist... and so on...

One day, they'll find themselves on the wrong side of 'others' for what they advocated.

[goatprairie]

I hate to say it, but many mirror the Marxist left- as long as it happens to other people. They love when taxes are used against someone or something they don't like. They love when rights are stripped from 'others'. They love to pick and choose what religions have the right to exist... and so on...

One day, they'll find themselves on the wrong side of 'others' for what they advocated.

What is your solution to the violence?

[ABX]

What is your solution to the violence?

More liberty. Violence thrives because free citizens don't have the right to defend themselves (giving criminals free reign) and the government creates criminal black markets that thrive due to prohibitions. Government violence is never the solution to citizen violence- it compounds the problem. Look at the areas where violence is the worst- it is where government tries to exert the most control. The areas that have the least violence are the ones with the most liberty.

Stop and Frisk violates several fundamental rights- the right of your person to be protected from unreasonable searches and seizures, the right of you not to have your property taken without due process of law, and the right to keep and bear arms.

Government initiated violence against your rights is far more worrisome of a prospect than street gangs.

[INVAR]

Government initiated violence against your rights is far more worrisome of a prospect than street gangs.

Only a shrinking minority of us still believe that.

A growing majority think government is the solution to every problem.

Doesn't matter if they call themselves Conservatives, Progressives, Communists or Republicans.  They all think if THEY empower government to solve problems - everything will work better.

And so we have grown accustomed to tyranny and lie to ourselves that we have liberty.

[goatprairie]

Only a shrinking minority of us still believe that.

A growing majority think government is the solution to every problem.

Doesn't matter if they call themselves Conservatives, Progressives, Communists or Republicans.  They all think if THEY empower government to solve problems - everything will work better.

And so we have grown accustomed to tyranny and lie to ourselves that we have liberty.

Still waiting for your solution to the violence.

[INVAR]

Still waiting for your solution to the violence.

I already gave it to you.

You ignored it/rejected it because you think abolishing the 4th Amendment and empowering government to stop, frisk, knock, search & seize and conditioning the people to live in a police state is the solution to stopping immoral miscreants from acting like animals.

[RoosGirl]

Still waiting for your solution to the violence.

FFS.  Two different people have answered your question repeatedly. 

[goatprairie]

FFS.  Two different people have answered your question repeatedly.

You mean telling me I'm creating a police state because I would like to see likely perps stopped and frisked will stop the violence?
Yes, and what is your solution to stop the violence?

[roamer_1]

Big difference in boarding an aircraft that can easily be used as a missile and being stopped anytime and anywhere and searched without any recourse.

Oh, hell no! No difference at all. Instead of searches, they should hand everyone a pistol.
The problem with travel is no different than the problem with no-gun-zone schools and cities.
The problem is that the right to self defense has been infringed.
PERIOD.

Searches never work.
Governmental edicts never work.

What will stop hijacks is when one never knows how many citizens on any given plane are packing, and willing to provide resistance. One or two hijackers shot dead, and all this bullcrap stops, and without cavity searches and ID checks.

Same exact thing Hitler, Mussolini and the rest of the genocidal tyrants in history always tell their people when they disarm them and start their stop and frisk programs.

That's right.

[RoosGirl]

You mean telling me I'm creating a police state because I would like to see likely perps stopped and frisked will stop the violence?
Yes, and what is your solution to stop the violence?

No, that wasn't the answer you were given. Try reading.

[roamer_1]

Still waiting for your solution to the violence.

STOP infringing the right to keep and bear arms.
That is the solution.

[RoosGirl]

STOP infringing the right to keep and near arms.
That is the solution.

For the third damn time.  But what's your solution to the violence.   

[mirraflake]

What will stop hijacks is when one never knows how many citizens on any given plane are packing, and willing to provide resistance. One or two hijackers shot dead, and all this bullcrap stops, and without cavity searches and ID checks.

You are a loon.  Do not take notice of all the nutjobs causing fights, sex attacks and other mayhem on planes today?  Yeah lets allow a mentally deranged nut on a plane with a CCW and at 30,000 feet he or she starts shooting out the windows for no reason. 

@roamer_1

[roamer_1]

You are a loon.  Do not take notice of all the nutjobs causing fights, sex attacks and other mayhem on planes today?  Yeah lets allow a mentally deranged nut on a plane with a CCW and at 30,000 feet he or she starts shooting out the windows for no reason. 

@mirraflake

You are not going to stop it anyway.
What you ARE stopping is the right of good men to stand in defense.

[verga]

Firstly, The Founders gave us a solution.

Your local government has abolished it in all practicality.

Secondly, why is it that 'Conservatives' at every turn nowadays look to government and the State to provide what is up to yourself to provide?

Your safety is up to you.  Not to armed agents of the state.

Papieren bitte???  Perhaps you are trusting a government police state - but I sure as hell do not.

You give them this, then no matter where you end up going, stormtroopers are going to stop you and ask for your papers and other idents and you become that more conditioned to being a slave of despotism once the right party and person decides to impose them permanently and kill liberty for good.

You may favor a police state.

I do not.

Let this people defend themselves as intended - and we have no need to arm the state to do it for us to 'keep us safe'.

"Only a virtuous people are capable of liberty.   As societies become more corrupt and vicious, they will have more need of masters" - Benjamin Franklin

Slippery slope fallacy, sorry that is an invalid form of the argument.

[roamer_1]

For the third damn time.  But what's your solution to the violence.   

Move to the sticks where you can pack iron anytime, and everyone else does too.
Funny how this kind of thing never happens there...

[INVAR]

Slippery slope fallacy...

Only to Statists and wannabe tyrants.

[RoosGirl]

Move to the sticks where you can pack iron anytime, and everyone else does too.
Funny how this kind of thing never happens there...

Do you think you could be clearer on what your solution is though?

[edpc]

Do you think you could be clearer on what your solution is though?

Sticks.  No.....iron.

Dammit, now I’m confused.   

[mirraflake]

Move to the sticks where you can pack iron anytime, and everyone else does too.
Funny how this kind of thing never happens there...

I live in the applachian sticks. Our closest neighbor is 1/2 mile away and there are plenty of guns trust me.

We are infiltrated with meth heads and heroin users and there are murders aplenty all done by low trash white people.

@roamer_1

[roamer_1]

I live in the applachian sticks. Our closest neighbor is 1/2 mile away and there are plenty of guns trust me.

We are infiltrated with meth heads and heroin users and there are murders aplenty all done by low trash white people.

@roamer_1

@mirraflake
So what you are saying is that you need a greater police presence and gun confiscation and everything will be better?

meh.

We have crackheads too. Mostly in town. I am a mile out of town and my doors are not locked, and the keys are in the truck.

Come and take my shit. See what happens.