Author Topic: Trump Signals Support For Legislation Easing US Ban On Pot  (Read 10777 times)

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Offline InHeavenThereIsNoBeer

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Re: Trump Signals Support For Legislation Easing US Ban On Pot
« Reply #125 on: June 11, 2018, 10:32:32 pm »
Not to mention photographers, psychologists, proctologists, phrenologists, placekickers, pitchers, and penologists

Prostitutes and politicians.

But I repeat myself.
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Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Trump Signals Support For Legislation Easing US Ban On Pot
« Reply #126 on: June 11, 2018, 10:36:20 pm »
@AbaraXas
psssssssst . . . shaddap you face! You want to give the bastards any more bright ideas?  :laugh:

They began denaturing airplane glue decades ago for that very reason.
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Offline bigheadfred

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Re: Trump Signals Support For Legislation Easing US Ban On Pot
« Reply #127 on: June 12, 2018, 12:53:12 am »
@Sanguine  @roamer_1  @Cyber Liberty

The product we are currently using in the finish area is some nasty crop--Chemcraft. I can't stand to be around it. It doesn't get you high. It makes you sick.

There is a big trend over in Jackson's Hole for barnwood. We are getting a product that is artificially aged. Whatever they are spraying on that pine seizes up my lungs. To work with it I am wearing a respirator. Not a dust mask. A respirator. But the dust infuses your clothes. And kills you.

I just did a 15. So I am tired. Did 71 hours last week. The boss threw a $100 at me today. I showed him a couple of paystubs. (he has been on salary so long he doesn't get it) One for 60 hours and one for 62. The difference in the takehome pay was $16. I don't make that much. But when they are taxing overtime at 70+%---meh.

IMO. there should be no restrictions on pot. Or meth. Or heroin. It is the bad shit you do on the stuff (not necessarily pot), that you should be held accountable for.

I got up at 3 a.m. on Sunday to go to work. Drank a glass that was 6 cups of strong coffee. Then ate two bananas and had a glass of milk. Talk about getting hit with an elephant tranquilizer. Something about food. I didn't eat anything on Friday. I did eat a ramen cup of noodles on Saturday. Those two bananas and that glass of milk shut me down.

I don't care if this is a threadjack.

See ya.
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Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Trump Signals Support For Legislation Easing US Ban On Pot
« Reply #128 on: June 12, 2018, 01:05:26 am »
Not a thread jack at all, @bigheadfred.  Perfectly on topic.  Sorry you have to work so much, I really hope you can back that down pretty soon, just so you can get some sleep....
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
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Offline Sanguine

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Re: Trump Signals Support For Legislation Easing US Ban On Pot
« Reply #129 on: June 12, 2018, 01:27:48 am »
@bigheadfred, take care of yourself.  You can't keep that up forever.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Trump Signals Support For Legislation Easing US Ban On Pot
« Reply #130 on: June 12, 2018, 01:31:40 am »
So do alcohol and tobacco.  Shall we make those illegal, too?  In fact, texting while driving is worse than driving drunk; perhaps we should make cellphones illegal too.
We have clear and enforceable rules about the use of alcohol, the effects of which are well understood, and predictable within close enough parameters to regulate that use, and for those who are generally responsible to avoid being impaired to the degree that they are a hazard to others.
As for tobacco, maybe I should name the places you can't smoke a (tobacco) cigarette any more? Nah. I'm saving my carpal tunnels. The nicotine and tar content of tobacco products is no secret, and smokers can choose to regulate their intake and often do by selecting a brand of their liking.
Likely in the west coast states mj use is sanctioned where tobacco can't be smoked.
But we have no means to anticipate the effects of any given toke off a joint on any given individual. Studies from the past I read (High Times, IIRC) indicate that people will take as many hits off the good weed as they will ditchweed, unless they pass out first--they smoke the same amount, regardless of potency. You don't see that with some switching from an ultralight cigarette to one higher in tar and nicotine, nor is the light beer drinker going to start pulling off the whisky bottle and expect the same effect as drinking light beer.
Because the information on dosages and effects remains sketchy, prediction (and avoidance) of dangerous levels of intoxication remains problematical, and less avoidable, making moderate or just responsible consumption questionable.
Without the ability to predict what dosages are past that threshold from mild impairment to hazard to navigation, the latter becomes more likely.
Ask yourself if you want the pilot of your plane, the driver of the semi next to you on the highway, railroad engineers, power plant operators, etc. to have been baked the night before? Unlike alcohol, the only quick tests are a present/absent, and the active ingredients in marijuana have a loiter time in the body far in excess to that of ethanol, rendering testing even harder.
At least the use of alcohol and tobacco can be regulated, with the results of conforming to those regulations resulting in predictable levels of competency, whether or not people will conform to those regulations. At present, the use of marijuana cannot be regulated in the same fashion.

What I must note is the demonization of tobacco (which possibly might cause any given individual to get cancer with long term use) in the face of cries to legalize pot, with its universal intoxicant effects.


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Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

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Offline Elderberry

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Re: Trump Signals Support For Legislation Easing US Ban On Pot
« Reply #131 on: June 12, 2018, 01:44:39 am »

The product we are currently using in the finish area is some nasty crop--Chemcraft. I can't stand to be around it. It doesn't get you high. It makes you sick.

There is a big trend over in Jackson's Hole for barnwood. We are getting a product that is artificially aged. Whatever they are spraying on that pine seizes up my lungs. To work with it I am wearing a respirator. Not a dust mask. A respirator. But the dust infuses your clothes. And kills you.



IMO. there should be no restrictions on pot. Or meth. Or heroin. It is the bad shit you do on the stuff (not necessarily pot), that you should be held accountable for.



Make them provide you a decent paint suit and gloves in addition to a good respirator. Its most likely full of isocyanates and not to be taken lightly.

I've always said that all the drugs should be legalized. The problem is not the drugs, its the way that so many children are raised. They have no concept of morality, or even right or wrong.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Trump Signals Support For Legislation Easing US Ban On Pot
« Reply #132 on: June 12, 2018, 01:48:29 am »
Given the overwhelming evidence of the medicinal qualities of marijuana it is absolutely absurd not to decriminalize it. I am for legalization period. Big pharma and the gov't need to keep their hands out of the cookie jar.  Big pharma has spent a ton of money to ensure that medical marijuana is never permitted in every state; too many people will begin to find just how much more effective pot is over their prescription meds that can have life threatening ingredients and side affects.
Funny thing about that. To some degree, those studies will reflect what those funding the studies want. Just like global warming. And I'm not denying the valid medical uses of marijuana, A friend with nonhodgkins lymphoma used it to keep eating during chemo.
Virtually anything that humans have been using for thousands of years has some redeeming characteristics.
But this isn't a push for mere medical use, it is a push an increment toward recreational use, and the pot is sweetened (no pun intended) by the prospects of revenue from another 'sin' tax.

I keep hearing how tobacco has no medical use whatsoever. No redeeming characteristics.

But tremendous numbers  in images of wounded taken from wars are smoking.
Why? Because that cigarette helps them ward off shock. I saw that as an EMT, myself.

Yet tobacco is treated as if it is the cause of every modern evil that can't be blamed on fraccing (with some overlap). Maybe the government isn't making enough money off it any more. 
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline libertybele

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Re: Trump Signals Support For Legislation Easing US Ban On Pot
« Reply #133 on: June 12, 2018, 03:05:30 am »
Nope. In my experience as an employer, ain't no way in hell I'm going to let no Stoner work for me... Ain't no different than alcohol ain't no different than oxy it's all the same thing

Pain or no pain, if you're lit, you ain't worth having working-wise.

????  So those who are on a prescribed medication for pain can't work according to you.  No offense but I ain't so sure I'd wanna work for ya anyhow.   

You can random drug test all you want, but those who are drug tested and test positive for the drug that they are prescribed is NOT in violation.
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Trump Signals Support For Legislation Easing US Ban On Pot
« Reply #134 on: June 12, 2018, 03:11:52 am »
????  So those who are on a prescribed medication for pain can't work according to you.  No offense but I ain't so sure I'd wanna work for ya anyhow.   

You can random drug test all you want, but those who are drug tested and test positive for the drug that they are prescribed is NOT in violation.
Maybe not by the local criminal code, but that doesn't mean they should be flying the plane, driving the bus, or operating an oil rig. In some lines of work, the employer sets the standards for safety reasons. If you have one of those jobs and you are in that much pain, chances are you should not be working anyhow. Whether you like it or not, there are some jobs you just have to be 100% there for. If you can't do that, it's time to go on light duty or go home.

Either way, the employer shouldn't have to run a random test to find out you are in pain.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2018, 03:13:19 am by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Suppressed

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Re: Trump Signals Support For Legislation Easing US Ban On Pot
« Reply #135 on: June 12, 2018, 03:17:14 am »
But when they are taxing overtime at 70+%---meh.

If you don't mind me asking a dumb question, how are you taxed at that rate, @bigheadfred?  Is that because you're collecting SocSec?

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Offline libertybele

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Re: Trump Signals Support For Legislation Easing US Ban On Pot
« Reply #136 on: June 12, 2018, 03:21:42 am »
Maybe not by the local criminal code, but that doesn't mean they should be flying the plane, driving the bus, or operating an oil rig. In some lines of work, the employer sets the standards for safety reasons. If you have one of those jobs and you are in that much pain, chances are you should not be working anyhow. Whether you like it or not, there are some jobs you just have to be 100% there for. If you can't do that, it's time to go on light duty or go home.

Either way, the employer shouldn't have to run a random test to find out you are in pain.

The meds treat the pain enabling the person to function and to do their job.  The same meds taken by someone not in pain what have a very different affect on their body and they wouldn't be able to function and do their job.

No different that a person who has Parkinson's or MS or cancer being prescribed meds in order for them to function.  Meds are not prescribed to make people high; they are prescribed to give people a better quality of life and to function.
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Offline roamer_1

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Re: Trump Signals Support For Legislation Easing US Ban On Pot
« Reply #137 on: June 12, 2018, 05:05:30 am »
????  So those who are on a prescribed medication for pain can't work according to you.  No offense but I ain't so sure I'd wanna work for ya anyhow.   

You can random drug test all you want, but those who are drug tested and test positive for the drug that they are prescribed is NOT in violation.

Yeah sorry. And I know all about morphine. Been there done that.
If you are bunged up enough that you need morphine to maintain some semblance of a life, you are no doubt too bunged up to be working in an industrial/production environment.

And too stoned. I know that if you are habituated, you probably think you are thinking fine (I know I did). Part of what caused me to find alt methods of pain relief was because it was proven to me that my thinking and reaction times were seriously impaired.

Offline Emjay

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Re: Trump Signals Support For Legislation Easing US Ban On Pot
« Reply #138 on: June 12, 2018, 05:11:20 am »
@Sanguine  @roamer_1  @Cyber Liberty

The product we are currently using in the finish area is some nasty crop--Chemcraft. I can't stand to be around it. It doesn't get you high. It makes you sick.

There is a big trend over in Jackson's Hole for barnwood. We are getting a product that is artificially aged. Whatever they are spraying on that pine seizes up my lungs. To work with it I am wearing a respirator. Not a dust mask. A respirator. But the dust infuses your clothes. And kills you.

I just did a 15. So I am tired. Did 71 hours last week. The boss threw a $100 at me today. I showed him a couple of paystubs. (he has been on salary so long he doesn't get it) One for 60 hours and one for 62. The difference in the takehome pay was $16. I don't make that much. But when they are taxing overtime at 70+%---meh.

IMO. there should be no restrictions on pot. Or meth. Or heroin. It is the bad shit you do on the stuff (not necessarily pot), that you should be held accountable for.

I got up at 3 a.m. on Sunday to go to work. Drank a glass that was 6 cups of strong coffee. Then ate two bananas and had a glass of milk. Talk about getting hit with an elephant tranquilizer. Something about food. I didn't eat anything on Friday. I did eat a ramen cup of noodles on Saturday. Those two bananas and that glass of milk shut me down.

I don't care if this is a threadjack.

See ya.

Hey, @bigheadfred   That was a much higher quality threadjack than we usually get and very interesting.  Good luck to you.
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Offline Emjay

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Re: Trump Signals Support For Legislation Easing US Ban On Pot
« Reply #139 on: June 12, 2018, 05:15:19 am »
Funny thing about that. To some degree, those studies will reflect what those funding the studies want. Just like global warming. And I'm not denying the valid medical uses of marijuana, A friend with nonhodgkins lymphoma used it to keep eating during chemo.
Virtually anything that humans have been using for thousands of years has some redeeming characteristics.
But this isn't a push for mere medical use, it is a push an increment toward recreational use, and the pot is sweetened (no pun intended) by the prospects of revenue from another 'sin' tax.

I keep hearing how tobacco has no medical use whatsoever. No redeeming characteristics.

But tremendous numbers  in images of wounded taken from wars are smoking.
Why? Because that cigarette helps them ward off shock. I saw that as an EMT, myself.

Yet tobacco is treated as if it is the cause of every modern evil that can't be blamed on fraccing (with some overlap). Maybe the government isn't making enough money off it any more.

@Smokin Joe   Thank you for an interesting post.  I can't think of anything that's become as vilified in society as cigarettes.  My husband smoked all his life and I actually think it helped him but who the heck knows.
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Trump Signals Support For Legislation Easing US Ban On Pot
« Reply #140 on: June 12, 2018, 05:24:24 am »
The meds treat the pain enabling the person to function and to do their job.  The same meds taken by someone not in pain what have a very different affect on their body and they wouldn't be able to function and do their job.

No different that a person who has Parkinson's or MS or cancer being prescribed meds in order for them to function.  Meds are not prescribed to make people high; they are prescribed to give people a better quality of life and to function.
That's why the warnings say "Do not drive or operate heavy equipment until you know how this medication affects you". Seriously. Do you want that airline pilot on the sort of medication that shows up on the random drug test?

IF they have to take the meds to function, they likely should not be doing the job. We aren't talking pushing paper at a desk, but jobs where a screw up costs lives. It has been rare for me that I have not worked in an environment where it is very easy to get killed or maimed or to kill or maim someone else. A moment of inattention is all it takes. Maybe we can send them where you work. YMMV.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2018, 05:25:17 am by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline roamer_1

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Re: Trump Signals Support For Legislation Easing US Ban On Pot
« Reply #141 on: June 12, 2018, 05:31:09 am »
@Sanguine  @roamer_1  @Cyber Liberty

The product we are currently using in the finish area is some nasty crop--Chemcraft. I can't stand to be around it. It doesn't get you high. It makes you sick.

Yeah... Prolly some japped up acrylic - Thanks. but I will stick to lacquers, varnishes, and conversion varnishes. The may get you stoned, but the body knows how to deal with them... other than heavy metal toxicity, which has to be treated differently, but it is still fixable.

Not so with acrylics.

Quote

There is a big trend over in Jackson's Hole for barnwood. We are getting a product that is artificially aged. Whatever they are spraying on that pine seizes up my lungs. To work with it I am wearing a respirator. Not a dust mask. A respirator. But the dust infuses your clothes. And kills you.

Yep. Full Pillsbury Doughboy suit... And pack your eyes with vaseline. That is probably where it is getting in you.

Quote
I just did a 15. So I am tired. Did 71 hours last week. The boss threw a $100 at me today. I showed him a couple of paystubs. (he has been on salary so long he doesn't get it) One for 60 hours and one for 62. The difference in the takehome pay was $16. I don't make that much. But when they are taxing overtime at 70+%---meh.

NOT_WORTH_IT. You are wrecking yourself for nothing. I know. I did it too.

Quote
IMO. there should be no restrictions on pot. Or meth. Or heroin. It is the bad shit you do on the stuff (not necessarily pot), that you should be held accountable for.

And herein lies the perennial conundrum the libertarians face: Folks just will not face the consequences and leave such people to their vices. One addict will not only destroy himself, but whole families. What you will not do with law, you will do with welfare and sanitariums. There is necessarily a happy(?) medium. 'Let them eat cake' will not suffice.

Quote
I got up at 3 a.m. on Sunday to go to work. Drank a glass that was 6 cups of strong coffee. Then ate two bananas and had a glass of milk. Talk about getting hit with an elephant tranquilizer. Something about food. I didn't eat anything on Friday. I did eat a ramen cup of noodles on Saturday. Those two bananas and that glass of milk shut me down.

Stop everything and go fishing. Eat some big greasy burgers and get your mojo back... The work will still be there when you get back, and from the technical side, you will not be any farther behind. I know that doesn't seem to make sense, but believe me, a rested Fred is a productive Fred.

Try it. You will find I am right.

Peace Bro.  :beer:

Offline bigheadfred

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Re: Trump Signals Support For Legislation Easing US Ban On Pot
« Reply #142 on: June 13, 2018, 02:07:18 am »
We have clear and enforceable rules about the use of alcohol, the effects of which are well understood, and predictable within close enough parameters to regulate that use, and for those who are generally responsible to avoid being impaired to the degree that they are a hazard to others.
As for tobacco, maybe I should name the places you can't smoke a (tobacco) cigarette any more? Nah. I'm saving my carpal tunnels. The nicotine and tar content of tobacco products is no secret, and smokers can choose to regulate their intake and often do by selecting a brand of their liking.
Likely in the west coast states mj use is sanctioned where tobacco can't be smoked.
But we have no means to anticipate the effects of any given toke off a joint on any given individual. Studies from the past I read (High Times, IIRC) indicate that people will take as many hits off the good weed as they will ditchweed, unless they pass out first--they smoke the same amount, regardless of potency. You don't see that with some switching from an ultralight cigarette to one higher in tar and nicotine, nor is the light beer drinker going to start pulling off the whisky bottle and expect the same effect as drinking light beer.
Because the information on dosages and effects remains sketchy, prediction (and avoidance) of dangerous levels of intoxication remains problematical, and less avoidable, making moderate or just responsible consumption questionable.
Without the ability to predict what dosages are past that threshold from mild impairment to hazard to navigation, the latter becomes more likely.
Ask yourself if you want the pilot of your plane, the driver of the semi next to you on the highway, railroad engineers, power plant operators, etc. to have been baked the night before? Unlike alcohol, the only quick tests are a present/absent, and the active ingredients in marijuana have a loiter time in the body far in excess to that of ethanol, rendering testing even harder.
At least the use of alcohol and tobacco can be regulated, with the results of conforming to those regulations resulting in predictable levels of competency, whether or not people will conform to those regulations. At present, the use of marijuana cannot be regulated in the same fashion.

What I must note is the demonization of tobacco (which possibly might cause any given individual to get cancer with long term use) in the face of cries to legalize pot, with its universal intoxicant effects.

I think the effects of MJ, given any time duration, are as well researched as any other intoxicant. Alcohol, meth, heroin, cocaine, the hallucinogens. (The bear says I don't feel so good. The bartender says "that is the bar bitch you ate"). Just look at what it takes to get FDA approval on drugs that are later found to have some major deleterious consequences. I believe that list would astound you, me, us.

I would disagree that MJ cannot be regulated in the same fashion or degree.

Factor in the intensive studies conducted by the military or any other alphabet group on any and all of the "street" drugs popular or popularized.

And since whenever hasn't the use of .....been used???

Shamanism, vision quests, etc,

 http://www.neatorama.com/2008/05/16/5-classics-written-under-the-influence/

FWIW, tell me I can't do something and I'll do my best, or worst, to prove you wrong.
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Offline bigheadfred

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Re: Trump Signals Support For Legislation Easing US Ban On Pot
« Reply #143 on: June 13, 2018, 02:15:11 am »
And again.

I freely admit I have smoked pot twice in my life. Once for twelve years. And once for 15.

@corbe
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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Re: Trump Signals Support For Legislation Easing US Ban On Pot
« Reply #144 on: June 13, 2018, 02:28:38 am »
More substantial proof that Trump is God.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Trump Signals Support For Legislation Easing US Ban On Pot
« Reply #145 on: June 13, 2018, 02:40:26 am »
I think the effects of MJ, given any time duration, are as well researched as any other intoxicant. Alcohol, meth, heroin, cocaine, the hallucinogens. (The bear says I don't feel so good. The bartender says "that is the bar bitch you ate"). Just look at what it takes to get FDA approval on drugs that are later found to have some major deleterious consequences. I believe that list would astound you, me, us.

I would disagree that MJ cannot be regulated in the same fashion or degree.

Factor in the intensive studies conducted by the military or any other alphabet group on any and all of the "street" drugs popular or popularized.

And since whenever hasn't the use of .....been used???

Shamanism, vision quests, etc,

 http://www.neatorama.com/2008/05/16/5-classics-written-under-the-influence/

FWIW, tell me I can't do something and I'll do my best, or worst, to prove you wrong.
Fred, those things may be buried in research results somewhere, but there is no clear upper limit of canabinoids to safely operate a motor vehicle or heavy equipment or even fly a jetliner. Nor is there a means by which that level can be tested for say on the side of the road. Like alcohol for some, the apparent effects are not a good guide for the consumer to how intoxicated they are. With alcohol you can play the numbers. SO many drinks at such a body weight yields a certain BAC +/- .02 to be 'safe'. Since the Widmark Formula, the results of consuming a couple beers have been fairly predictable.

However, with the wide variation in in potency of pot, predicting the amount in the system on the amount of consumption, depth of inhalation, hold time, 'expansion' and coughing, etc., is just not do-able, even for a given potency. Was that a half gram in the bowl or two grams? Did someone 'bogart' the bowl or was it shared evenly, etc? Too many variables to predict the effect, and like any other intoxicant consumption, often the consumer is the worst judge of their own intoxication level and capabilities, below the threshold of being too baked to move.

The generally accepted levels of intoxication to safely operate vehicles, equipment, carry a firearm, do brain sutgery, etc. fall far below that level, and in the absence of being predictable, and without the means to readily test serum levels, determining whether any specific level of intoxication has been exceeded becomes a problem.

If you can't predict the results of consumption, and can't measure how much was consumed readily, all that leaves is the more binary question of whether or not the drug was consumed, and an objective assessment of the level of incapacitation of the individual involved, usually conducted after whatever disaster great or small occurs.

That's asking for trouble, all around.

« Last Edit: June 13, 2018, 02:41:56 am by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline bigheadfred

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Re: Trump Signals Support For Legislation Easing US Ban On Pot
« Reply #146 on: June 14, 2018, 01:56:09 am »
If you don't mind me asking a dumb question, how are you taxed at that rate, @bigheadfred?  Is that because you're collecting SocSec?

Sorry I am late answering your question. No, I am not collecting SocSec. But apparently, I am paying for it. Word is that after 54-55 hours the tax rate climbs. I will tell you the truth. I make $18/hr. $27 0n overtime. The difference in my takehome pay from 60 hours to 62 hours was $16. So supposedly I make $54 in two hours of overtime. They took $38 and gave me back $16.

I haven't actually set down and figured the tax score--rate increase per hours worked. The gov does what they want whether I vote or not.

I don't do what I do for money. That is someone else's effed up plan. I do it because I like it. And because I like it I am really good at it.

I was merely pointing out to the boss why no one wants to put in that much overtime. Because they ARE about the money. I work with people with no skill, no ambition, and from what I gather, it isn't just where I work. It is everywhere. High pay for no skill and no desire and can't SPEAK the language...

The language I am talking about is an honest day's pay for an honest day's work.

That shit is gone.

Don't tax me for it.

@Emjay @Sanguine  @roamer_1  @Elderberry  @Smokin Joe  @Cyber Liberty

« Last Edit: June 14, 2018, 01:58:57 am by bigheadfred »
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Offline bigheadfred

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Re: Trump Signals Support For Legislation Easing US Ban On Pot
« Reply #147 on: June 14, 2018, 02:33:01 am »
Fred, those things may be buried in research results somewhere, but there is no clear upper limit of canabinoids to safely operate a motor vehicle or heavy equipment or even fly a jetliner. Nor is there a means by which that level can be tested for say on the side of the road. Like alcohol for some, the apparent effects are not a good guide for the consumer to how intoxicated they are. With alcohol you can play the numbers. SO many drinks at such a body weight yields a certain BAC +/- .02 to be 'safe'. Since the Widmark Formula, the results of consuming a couple beers have been fairly predictable.

However, with the wide variation in in potency of pot, predicting the amount in the system on the amount of consumption, depth of inhalation, hold time, 'expansion' and coughing, etc., is just not do-able, even for a given potency. Was that a half gram in the bowl or two grams? Did someone 'bogart' the bowl or was it shared evenly, etc? Too many variables to predict the effect, and like any other intoxicant consumption, often the consumer is the worst judge of their own intoxication level and capabilities, below the threshold of being too baked to move.

The generally accepted levels of intoxication to safely operate vehicles, equipment, carry a firearm, do brain sutgery, etc. fall far below that level, and in the absence of being predictable, and without the means to readily test serum levels, determining whether any specific level of intoxication has been exceeded becomes a problem.

If you can't predict the results of consumption, and can't measure how much was consumed readily, all that leaves is the more binary question of whether or not the drug was consumed, and an objective assessment of the level of incapacitation of the individual involved, usually conducted after whatever disaster great or small occurs.

That's asking for trouble, all around.

I somewhat agree with your assessment overall. But there are caveats. The guinea pig you do to get your high blood pressure meds at the right levels. Heck, just find one that works without the side effects .My MD is STILL changing my dosing for my leg blood clot. Suggesting it may be a lifelong treatment.

My point being life changing events like arrest, jail, job loss, etc. are no joking matter. MJ has been in use for millennia.

Legalize, tax, regulate. But do not incarcerate.
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Offline Sanguine

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Re: Trump Signals Support For Legislation Easing US Ban On Pot
« Reply #148 on: June 14, 2018, 03:50:46 am »
Sorry I am late answering your question. No, I am not collecting SocSec. But apparently, I am paying for it. Word is that after 54-55 hours the tax rate climbs. I will tell you the truth. I make $18/hr. $27 0n overtime. The difference in my takehome pay from 60 hours to 62 hours was $16. So supposedly I make $54 in two hours of overtime. They took $38 and gave me back $16.

I haven't actually set down and figured the tax score--rate increase per hours worked. The gov does what they want whether I vote or not.

I don't do what I do for money. That is someone else's effed up plan. I do it because I like it. And because I like it I am really good at it.

I was merely pointing out to the boss why no one wants to put in that much overtime. Because they ARE about the money. I work with people with no skill, no ambition, and from what I gather, it isn't just where I work. It is everywhere. High pay for no skill and no desire and can't SPEAK the language...

The language I am talking about is an honest day's pay for an honest day's work.

That shit is gone.

Don't tax me for it.

@Emjay @Sanguine  @roamer_1  @Elderberry  @Smokin Joe  @Cyber Liberty

Hey, Fred! 

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Trump Signals Support For Legislation Easing US Ban On Pot
« Reply #149 on: June 14, 2018, 04:09:10 am »
I somewhat agree with your assessment overall. But there are caveats. The guinea pig you do to get your high blood pressure meds at the right levels. Heck, just find one that works without the side effects .My MD is STILL changing my dosing for my leg blood clot. Suggesting it may be a lifelong treatment.

My point being life changing events like arrest, jail, job loss, etc. are no joking matter. MJ has been in use for millennia.

Legalize, tax, regulate. But do not incarcerate.
It has been in use for millennia, but not by the average millennial.
It's still a matter of choice, and those who want to bad enough will defy the law.

But that does not deal with unpredictable effects, unpredictable dosages, unprecedented opportunity to cause death and destruction*, inability to test for hazardous levels in a timely fashion, just on the highway. Maybe it is just that I have worked at jobs where a screwup commonly kills or maims and that is just the beginning.
*far faster and heavier vehicles, and some potentially nasty cargoes.

We see too many such incidents in  the oil industry without legalization. Yes we have zero tolerance rules as a condition of employment, but they are not completely effective (just like any other rule), and only provide the means to get rid of those who will not comply. However the presence of those rules and pre-employment/random testing has led to being a rig hand being removed from the top ten most dangerous jobs list.

Find a way to predict the effects of any given amount of raw product on any given individual, to test for them being above or below some threshold level and in a way that they can, like a drinker have that equivalent of just one or two beers and avoid being dangerous, and I'd be more open to  the idea of legalizing it.

The law is plain enough that people who don't want to lose jobs, etc. to being prosecuted can avoid that. It is that way with alcohol, too, but that hasn't stopped people from losing their jobs, etc. to it.

The thought of being held legally responsible and losing their jobs, etc. to being caught has, however had an impact, and I believe stopped a lot of people from getting in that bind, people who just follow the law.

To not do so is a personal choice, and those who make that choice know the penalties.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis