Trump drops a bombshell on immigration, and no one bothers to report it

[XenaLee]

My Indian colleagues are all over that.  They would love to see "merit based" green cards.  Some of them have been working for their initial employer for over a decade waiting for their H1.  It galled them to no end to see the Obama Administration give a green card to the San Bernardino bomber mere weeks after entering the country.  If Trump gets that passed, their US-born America citizen kids will vote Republican for life.

Cool.  And they won't be the only ones!

[txradioguy]

Get rid of welfare for able-bodied Americans, and trust me,  Americans would work harder.

Not to mention fewer of them would vote Democrat if they were actually working.

[Jazzhead]

My point is you always hear about how hard working they are. Yes, and those same hard working immigrants also grab every advantage the government offers them. Their kids populate (and retard) public schools and swamp ERs which illegals use as their primary health care.

And you don't "grab every advantage" the government offers you?   I can guarantee you're going to accept your old-age welfare (SS and Medicare) when the time comes. 

And why shouldn't a hard-working immigrant be able to educate his kids?   And get care for his kids when they get sick?   What alternative do you propose to the emergency room?   

The medical delivery system in this country is extremely divided between the haves and have nots.   In the words of the old gospel song, "If religion were a thing that money could buy,  the rich would live and the poor would die."   

[txradioguy]

And you don't "grab every advantage" the government offers you?   I can guarantee you're going to accept your old-age welfare (SS and Medicare) when the time comes. 

And why shouldn't a hard-working immigrant be able to educate his kids?   And get care for his kids when they get sick?   What alternative do you propose to the emergency room?   

The medical delivery system in this country is extremely divided between the haves and have nots.   In the words of the old gospel song, "If religion were a thing that money could buy,  the rich would live and the poor would die."

IF they are here illegally they should get somewhere between jack and sh*t.  I don't care if they bring a kid with them or not.

Breaking the law is breaking the law.

And your class warfare analogy about medical care is complete leftist propaganda.

[Sanguine]

Putting aside the issue of immigrant status, is the consensus here that the welfare system should not help "low-income workers, especially those with children"?

Should we instead be encouraging those with children to not work, or those who are working in lower-paid jobs not to have children?   

To me, the greatest problem with the welfare system is that it encourages the break-up of families.   As Jason Whitlock wrote in today's WSJ:  "The welfare check, the replacement for black fathers, is liberalism's nicotine."   

That's twisting worthy of a contortionist.

No, they shouldn't be here.

[TomSea]

Who is representing Dixie with their disparaging talk? Let's look at the 2016 election maps:





Doesn't apply when someone speaks about our president though. 

Also, we have a Senate, we have a House of Representatives. Something holding these people back from passing legislation on this? Or is the end result getting nothing done?

[Jazzhead]

That's twisting worthy of a contortionist.

No, they shouldn't be here.

A problem with this thread is that some of us are speaking of illegal immigrants, and others of legal immigration.   

[skeeter]

And you don't "grab every advantage" the government offers you?   I can guarantee you're going to accept your old-age welfare (SS and Medicare) when the time comes. 

And why shouldn't a hard-working immigrant be able to educate his kids?   And get care for his kids when they get sick?   What alternative do you propose to the emergency room?   

The medical delivery system in this country is extremely divided between the haves and have nots.   In the words of the old gospel song, "If religion were a thing that money could buy,  the rich would live and the poor would die."

Why no Jazzhead, I don't.

I would've thought my solution to the problems you mention above would be obvious by now - don't let them in in the first place.

If they're not here, there is no concern over where they'll get their healthcare. If they're not here, we don't have to hold our kids back in school while we bring their's up to speed. If they're not here, they're not a 'have not' thats any concern of our's.

I'm sure that offends your Pete Seeger sensitivities, but after nearly 100 years I just don't think we can afford to indulge them anymore.

[Jazzhead]

I'm sure that offends your Pete Seeger sensitivities, but after nearly 100 years I just don't think we can afford to indulge them anymore.

Indulge them?  Immigration is crucial to our economic well-being.   We cannot sustain economic growth without immigration;  the birthrate of the native born is at or below replacement level.   And as the baby boomers age, who is going to care for them? 

[skeeter]

Indulge them?  Immigration is crucial to our economic well-being.   We cannot sustain economic growth without immigration;  the birthrate of the native born is at or below replacement level.   And as the baby boomers age, who is going to care for them?

LOL, take care of me? Low skilled immigrants, legal and illegal, are a net drain on the economy.

The system as it is currently constituted is a threat to my future, hardly a benefit.

Only those who employ them directly, and the bureaucrats who administer the programs they consume benefit from them.

[txradioguy]

Indulge them?  Immigration is crucial to our economic well-being.

No it's not.  It's a cheap substitute for able bodied Americans who've decided it's better to sit on their ass and live off welfare than to try and better themselves.   

We cannot sustain economic growth without immigration;

Ask the Europeans how that's going...especially in Germany.  Merkel tried the same thing you want for us to do and it's been disastrous.


The immigrants coming to the U.S. (as well as Europe) immediately get on the dole...they don't assimilate to the culture of the country they are moving to and in the end become a drag on the economy as well as the governmental budgets.

 

the birthrate of the native born is at or below replacement level.

And why do you think that is?   

And as the baby boomers age, who is going to care for them?

It shouldn't be the Government.  If they worked hard contributed to retirement accounts with their company they owed or worked for then the have the means to take care of themselves.

ANyone whose sole retirement "plan" is the government taking care of them is setting themselves up for failure.
[/quote]

[skeeter]

Ask the Europeans how that's going...especially in Germany.  Merkel tried the same thing you want for us to do and it's been disastrous.
 

I see this being thrown out there like its indisputable truth but when you consider everything - Europe, Asia, our own anemic recent economic performance - I just don't see the correlation between economic well being and immigration.

May have been true during the dawn of the age of mercantilism or the industrial revolution, but unless they're talking about a kind of temporary consumer 'pump priming' I strongly suspect not today.

[Jazzhead]

A problem with this thread is that some of us are speaking of illegal immigrants, and others of legal immigration.

And now the thread is becoming even more incomprehensible, as some are throwing Europe's policies toward political refugees into the mix.

Let's get things straight:  Illegal immigration, legal immigration policy and political refugee policy are all very different things.   Trump's statement in the OP, for what it is worth, goes to the issue of legal immigration policy, so that's what I have been trying to address.   And he's quite correct that we need legal immigration to sustain economic growth.   

[txradioguy]

I see this being thrown out there like its indisputable truth but when you consider everything - Europe, Asia, our own anemic recent economic performance - I just don't see the correlation between economic well being and immigration.

May have been true during the dawn of the age of mercantilism or the industrial revolution, but unless they're talking about a kind of temporary consumer 'pump priming' I strongly suspect not today.

I use Germany as an example because they are importing cheap labor via Turkey and now with their open arms policy towards other Muslim countries because their birth rate replacement levels of native born Germans is IIRC worse than our own.

It hasn't been the fix for their economy and with the recent flood of immigrants it's stressing their welfare system to the max.

[skeeter]

I use Germany as an example because they are importing cheap labor via Turkey and now with their open arms policy towards other Muslim countries because their birth rate replacement levels of native born Germans is IIRC worse than our own.

It hasn't been the fix for their economy and with the recent flood of immigrants it's stressing their welfare system to the max.

Its what happens when very narrow interests are in charge of policies that have a dramatic effect on society at large. They tell us how good it is for all of us when in reality its disproportionally good for them.

[sneakypete]

It is a very recent development that the conservative movement has become aligned with anti-immigrant nativism.

 @Jazzhead

Immigrants coming here as conquerors and subversive agents intent on  destroying our nation to please their God is a very recent development,also.

As is our own politicians using taxpayer money to bring them here,and set them up in retirement with free food,clothing,housing,and spending money in exchange for their votes.

[GrouchoTex]

From Wiki

" Remittances, or contributions sent by Mexicans living abroad, mostly in the United States, to their families at home in Mexico comprised $24.785 billion in 2012.[65] In 2015, remittances overtook oil to become the single largest foreign source of income for Mexico, larger than any other sector.[66] Remittances continued to climb to record levels, over $26 billion, in 2016 (excluding December).[67]"

This is why the Mexican govt helps people enter our country illegally.

Imagine a 26 billion dollar infusion into, oh, I don't know, the VA?
A border Wall?
School vouchers?

Or best yet, into the hands of working Americans, who would have those jobs if their own Government enforced the Immigration laws.

[skeeter]

Imagine a 26 billion dollar infusion into, oh, I don't know, the VA?
A border Wall?
School vouchers?

Or best yet, into the hands of working Americans, who would have those jobs if their own Government enforced the Immigration laws.

There are 90 million unemployed people of working age currently in the USA. Anyone claiming we 'need immigration for economic growth' is being less than truthful or is woefully ignorant.

That includes the president.

With the proper reforms we could go for years without a single immigrant and do just fine economically.

[Sanguine]

Imagine a 26 billion dollar infusion into, oh, I don't know, the VA?
A border Wall?
School vouchers?

Or best yet, into the hands of working Americans, who would have those jobs if their own Government enforced the Immigration laws.

I'd be happy to keep more of what I earn.

[txradioguy]

There are 90 million unemployed people of working age currently in the USA. Anyone claiming we 'need immigration for economic growth' is being less than truthful or is woefully ignorant.

That includes the president.

With the proper reforms we could go for years without a single immigrant and do just fine economically.

We need to seriously take a 2-3 year pause in this 50 year flood of immigrants both legal and illegal.

IIRC this is the longest we've gone in the U.S. without a pause.

The ones we have here need to assimilate into American culture values and the language instead of creating little balkanized subcultures within the U.S. that don't have anything to do with the things that make America what it is.

[roamer_1]

Abortions are typically the "solution" for a woman who is not yet in a position in life to afford to raise children - especially if there is no man in the picture.   How will forcing such women to give birth grow the economy?

Bullshit.

It is true, however, that the more an economy modernizes and evolves to grow its middle class, the lower the birthrate tends to be.   Economic opportunity means women put off raising families, or limit the size of their broods.   Traditional gender roles encourage the raising of children;  the liberation of women from the patriarchy has provided women with a plethora of alternatives.   

You say that like it's a good thing. It ends in confusion, killing babies, and importing criminals to mow your lawn. I know. I can see it from here.

[skeeter]

We need to seriously take a 2-3 year pause in this 50 year flood of immigrants both legal and illegal.

IIRC this is the longest we've gone in the U.S. without a pause.

The ones we have here need to assimilate into American culture values and the language instead of creating little balkanized subcultures within the U.S. that don't have anything to do with the things that make America what it is.

Unless a way can be found to quantify the societal cost of the ongoing balkanization there's little chance of an immigration time out, sadly. Those economic and political interests benefiting from the current system are too powerful.

[roamer_1]

Kids aren't a danger to the earth, but why the heck should a smart, ambitious woman raise a large family?   Times have changed because technology has changed - large families used to prosper, now a smaller brood ensures the greater prosperity of the family.   And what is wrong with a woman's ability to choose whether and when to raise a family?

You really don't know what you're talking about.

[Jazzhead]

There are 90 million unemployed people of working age currently in the USA. Anyone claiming we 'need immigration for economic growth' is being less than truthful or is woefully ignorant.

EMPLOYERS favor more immigration because they cannot find enough of the reliable labor they need among the native born.

They favor more immigration not out of "woeful ignorance" but because they are on the ground trying to get the help they need to stay in business.   

Don't explain to me why 90 million of our native-born don't or won't work - explain that to employers.   Meanwhile, I favor more immigration.     

[Jazzhead]

You really don't know what you're talking about.

I know exactly what I am talking about.   Women have choices these days - to work, to educate themselves, to have careers - and to have kids, when and if they choose. 

 There is no rational reason why women need to raise large broods of offspring these days.   There may be emotional reasons to do so, and that's fine.  But keeping women barefoot and pregnant ain't gonna fly anymore.