Trump drops a bombshell on immigration, and no one bothers to report it

[skeeter]

Oh bullshiit.  My grandparents were all immigrants, and were white as snow.  Anyone who pulls up stakes and moves thousands of miles from friends and family just to have a shot at a better life is - ipso facto - more ambitious and harder working than the native born who won't move their asses out of the holler.   

It doesn't matter how many times I hear this tired old lie, its still as offensive as it was the first time.

Spend a little time in California, I'll show you your 'harder working' immigrants.

[driftdiver]

Oh bullshiit.  My grandparents were all immigrants, and were white as snow.  Anyone who pulls up stakes and moves thousands of miles from friends and family just to have a shot at a better life is - ipso facto - more ambitious and harder working than the native born who won't move their asses out of the holler.   

@Jazzhead
SO its only the people who live in the "holler" that you think are lazy?   The predominately white ones?

You think by the nature of their national origin and skin color those people who are breaking our laws are more productive.   They also happen to be bringing their gangs, drunk drivers, thieves, and rapists with them as well.

Shame on you and your fake white guilt.

[driftdiver]

It also makes them eligible to collect SS when they retire, provide that they work long enough.  There was some ruling a decade ago or so saying that non-US citizens living in Mexico who worked long enough in the US to qualify were due their SS payments.

From Wiki

" Remittances, or contributions sent by Mexicans living abroad, mostly in the United States, to their families at home in Mexico comprised $24.785 billion in 2012.[65] In 2015, remittances overtook oil to become the single largest foreign source of income for Mexico, larger than any other sector.[66] Remittances continued to climb to record levels, over $26 billion, in 2016 (excluding December).[67]"

This is why the Mexican govt helps people enter our country illegally.

[Suppressed]

It doesn't matter how many times I hear this tired old lie, its still as offensive as it was the first time.

Spend a little time in California, I'll show you your 'harder working' immigrants.

@skeeter  @driftdiver

You bring up an interesting question...is it different in different parts of the country?

I can confirm @Jazzhead's observation about the SE PA area -- many of the hardest-working people are illegal immigrants. 

I wonder whether the level of benefits, or perhaps the percentage of the population, or the proximity to the border, or other factor(s) change this.

[dfwgator]

It is a very recent development that the conservative movement has become aligned with anti-immigrant nativism.

It's also a very recent development that a good number of the people coming into this country are not here to become Americans, but to take what they can and feel that the government should accommodate them.  Before they tended to "blend into the melting pot".

But now the term "melting pot" is considered racist, don'cha know.

[driftdiver]

@skeeter  @driftdiver

You bring up an interesting question...is it different in different parts of the country?

I can confirm @Jazzhead's observation about the SE PA area -- many of the hardest-working people are illegal immigrants. 

I wonder whether the level of benefits, or perhaps the percentage of the population, or the proximity to the border, or other factor(s) change this.

Some illegals work hard.  Saying they work harder than Americans is bullshit and its a way of demeaning Americans.   Yes some Americans are lazy but most are not. 

Regardless if we need more workers then they should come in legally.   Setting up a system where families have to risk their lives to come in is sick.  Not to mention we don't know who they are, what skills do they have, what is their criminal history, are they gang affiliated.

A trip to my local walmart will confirm a number of them are gang affiliated.

[dfwgator]

Some illegals work hard.  Saying they work harder than Americans is bullshit and its a way of demeaning Americans.   Yes some Americans are lazy but most are not. 

Regardless if we need more workers then they should come in legally.   Setting up a system where families have to risk their lives to come in is sick.  Not to mention we don't know who they are, what skills do they have, what is their criminal history, are they gang affiliated.

A trip to my local walmart will confirm a number of them are gang affiliated.

Get rid of welfare for able-bodied Americans, and trust me,  Americans would work harder.

[skeeter]

@skeeter  @driftdiver

You bring up an interesting question...is it different in different parts of the country?

I can confirm @Jazzhead's observation about the SE PA area -- many of the hardest-working people are illegal immigrants. 

I wonder whether the level of benefits, or perhaps the percentage of the population, or the proximity to the border, or other factor(s) change this.

illegal immigrants are like anyone else - some work hard, many do not. I imagine that the easier and more lavish the social benefits in a given area, the higher the percentage of grifters you'll find.

Im just sick of the old canards open borders hucksters use to sell their poison. They don't work anymore.

[driftdiver]

Get rid of welfare for able-bodied Americans, and trust me,  Americans would work harder.

Thats part of it Im sure.

Another part is some employers want them for cheap labor.    Builders in this area use almost exclusively immigrants for construction.   They pay them dirt cheap but it sure doesn't reduce the house price.

If employers were forced to pay market prices for legal workers then more Americans would be willing to do the work.   They aren't going to pick strawberries or work construction for $3.50 an hour though.

IMO its a modern form of slavery, only the employers don't have to worry about housing or feeding their cheap labor.  They can just dump the workers when no longer needed or have them arrested if the worker doesn't follow the rules.

[Jazzhead]

You think by the nature of their national origin and skin color those people who are breaking our laws are more productive.   

Of course not.  What I admire is an immigrant's ambition and drive.  Not his skin color.  My grandparents left their native lands with nothing but their desire for a shot at a better life.   That is what I admire.  The native born - and, sure, I mentioned those marooned in the holler but there are just as many marooned in the ghetto - tend to be more complacent by nature.   There are plenty of exceptions, but IMO ambition is best demonstrated by action - and risking all to come to a land of opportunity that too many of us who were born here TAKE FOR GRANTED represents proof by action.

I am not excusing illegal immigration.  But I support substantial increases in legal immigration because immigrants improve the health and moral fabric of the nation.   And they have for over two hundred years.   

[skeeter]

Thats part of it Im sure.

Another part is some employers want them for cheap labor.    Builders in this area use almost exclusively immigrants for construction.   They pay them dirt cheap but it sure doesn't reduce the house price.

If employers were forced to pay market prices for legal workers then more Americans would be willing to do the work.   They aren't going to pick strawberries or work construction for $3.50 an hour though.

IMO its a modern form of slavery, only the employers don't have to worry about housing or feeding their cheap labor.  They can just dump the workers when no longer needed or have them arrested if the worker doesn't follow the rules.

Illegal immigration is a way for certain employers who use them to "outsource" benefits, ones they should be providing their employees, to the American taxpayer. No wonder they're willing to go to the mat to keep em rolling in.

[Jazzhead]

Some illegals work hard.  Saying they work harder than Americans is bullshit and its a way of demeaning Americans.   Yes some Americans are lazy but most are not. 

My intent isn't to "demean" Americans.  But if the shoe fits . . .   Laziness and lack of ambition need a kick in the ass.  But employers don't care - they need to run their businesses and make a profit.  Immigrants who work hard are like gold.   

[Jazzhead]

Illegal immigration is a way for certain employers who use them to "outsource" benefits, ones they should be providing their employees, to the American taxpayer. No wonder they're willing to go to the mat to keep em rolling in.

Legal and illegal immigration are different things.   But the bottom line is that employers need employees with a solid work ethic.  The law should encourage them getting those employees legally.  But anti-immigrant nativism is just a recipe for continued law-breaking.   

[driftdiver]

My intent isn't to "demean" Americans.  But if the shoe fits . . .   Laziness and lack of ambition need a kick in the ass.  But employers don't care - they need to run their businesses and make a profit.  Immigrants who work hard are like gold.

@Jazzhead
Such a hypocrite.

People who work hard are gold.   People who work hard and obey the law are platinum.

Employers should care, because it is their responsibility to abide by the law.  Those that do not should be punished severely.  Just as the people who don't abide by the law should be punished severely.

[Sanguine]

Illegal immigration is a way for certain employers who use them to "outsource" benefits, ones they should be providing their employees, to the American taxpayer. No wonder they're willing to go to the mat to keep em rolling in.

That's exactly right, and I think many don't understand that point. 

    In 2012, 51 percent of households headed by an immigrant (legal or illegal) reported that they used at least one welfare program during the year, compared to 30 percent of native households. Welfare in this study includes Medicaid and cash, food, and housing programs.

    Welfare use is high for both new arrivals and well-established immigrants. Of households headed by immigrants who have been in the country for more than two decades, 48 percent access welfare.

    No single program explains immigrants' higher overall welfare use. For example, not counting subsidized school lunch, welfare use is still 46 percent for immigrants and 28 percent for natives. Not counting Medicaid, welfare use is 44 percent for immigrants and 26 percent for natives.

    Immigrant households have much higher use of food programs (40 percent vs. 22 percent for natives) and Medicaid (42 percent vs. 23 percent). Immigrant use of cash programs is somewhat higher than natives (12 percent vs. 10 percent) and use of housing programs is similar to natives.

    Welfare use varies among immigrant groups. Households headed by immigrants from Central America and Mexico (73 percent), the Caribbean (51 percent), and Africa (48 percent) have the highest overall welfare use. Those from East Asia (32 percent), Europe (26 percent), and South Asia (17 percent) have the lowest.

    Many immigrants struggle to support their children, and a large share of welfare is received on behalf of U.S.-born children. However, even immigrant households without children have significantly higher welfare use than native households without children — 30 percent vs. 20 percent.

    The welfare system is designed to help low-income workers, especially those with children, and this describes many immigrant households. In 2012, 51 percent of immigrant households with one or more workers accessed one or more welfare programs, as did 28 percent of working native households.

    The large share of immigrants with low levels of education and resulting low incomes partly explains their high use rates. In 2012, 76 percent of households headed by an immigrant who had not graduated high school used one or more welfare programs, as did 63 percent of households headed by an immigrant with only a high school education.

    The high rates of immigrant welfare use are not entirely explained by their lower education levels. Households headed by college-educated immigrants have significantly higher welfare use than households headed by college-educated natives — 26 percent vs. 13 percent.

    In the four top immigrant-receiving states, use of welfare by immigrant households is significantly higher than that of native households: California (55 percent vs. 30 percent), New York (59 percent vs. 33 percent), Texas (57 percent vs. 34 percent), and Florida (42 percent vs. 28 percent).

    Illegal immigrants are included in the SIPP. In a forthcoming report, we will estimate welfare use for immigrants by legal status. However, it is clear that the overwhelming majority of immigrant households using welfare are headed by legal immigrants.

    Most new legal immigrants are barred from welfare programs when they first arrive, and illegal immigrants are barred as well. But the ban applies to only some programs; most legal immigrants have been in the country long enough to qualify for at least some programs and the bar often does not apply to children; states often provide welfare to new immigrants on their own; naturalizing makes immigrants eligible for all programs; and, most important, immigrants (including illegal immigrants) can receive benefits on behalf of their U.S.-born children who are awarded U.S. citizenship at birth.

    The heavy use of welfare by less-educated immigrants has three important policy implications: 1) prior research indicates that illegal immigrants are overwhelmingly less-educated, so allowing them to stay in the country creates significant welfare costs; 2) by admitting large numbers of less-educated immigrants to join their relatives, the legal immigration system brings in many immigrants who are likely to access the welfare system; and 3) proposals to allow in more less-educated immigrants to fill low-wage jobs would create significant welfare costs.

https://cis.org/Report/Welfare-Use-Immigrant-and-Native-Households

Emphases mine.

[driftdiver]

Legal and illegal immigration are different things.   But the bottom line is that employers need employees with a solid work ethic.  The law should encourage them getting those employees legally.  But anti-immigrant nativism is just a recipe for continued law-breaking.

@Jazzhead
Anti immigrant nativism   is the cause of the law breaking!!!????   my god the double speak is deep

criminals are the recipe for law breaking.   conspiracy to aid their law breaking is also criminal

[skeeter]

That's exactly right, and I think many don't understand that point. 

Emphases mine.

Many do not understand that an illegal immigrant can both work hard AND be a grifter.

[Sanguine]

Many do not understand that an illegal immigrant can both work hard AND fleece the US taxpayer.

Frequently because they do not have marketable skills and education. 

[DCPatriot]

My intent isn't to "demean" Americans.  But if the shoe fits . . .   Laziness and lack of ambition need a kick in the ass.  But employers don't care - they need to run their businesses and make a profit.  Immigrants who work hard are like gold.

I've had a 'soft spot' for the hard-working, honest, illegal immigrant...long before Elian Gonzales. 

Have watched toddlers become college grads.

It was always meant to be a one-generational welfare program...kick start.  And for the most part, in Montgomery County, Maryland, it's been successful.

Entire zip codes have been reverse gentrified.   

Drop a blind-folded person near University Blvd. and New Hampshire Avenue, in Silver Spring, Maryland and they'll swear they are in Central America.   A commercial sign/neon sign in English is an aberration.

But the truth is as others have stated... they are the painters, the carpenters, the maids, cooks...and they are cutting the grass along the interstate.

[Hoodat]

My grandparents were all immigrants, and were white as snow.  Anyone who pulls up stakes and moves thousands of miles from friends and family just to have a shot at a better life is - ipso facto - more ambitious and harder working than the native born who won't move their asses out of the holler.   

Your grandparents had no choice but to be hard-working, because your grandparents didn't have liberal governments handing out free shit to them with money borrowed from future generations.

Sure, there are many many immigrants today who come here bringing the American Dream with them, thinking that hard work will bring success.  They end up sorely disenchanted when they discover how the taxes they pay are handed out to other immigrants who sit on their asses in government paid housing.

I have no problem whatsoever with immigration.  It is what built America.  But I have a serious problem with a government handing out free shit for life to people crossing our border.

And for the record, I don't give a damn what color your grandparents were.  I welcome anyone willing to work hard and take individual responsibility for their lives.

[skeeter]

Frequently because they do not have marketable skills and education.

Most in my area are obviously quite illiterate.

My point is you always hear about how hard working they are. Yes, and those same hard working immigrants also grab every advantage the government offers them. Their kids populate (and retard) public schools and swamp ERs which illegals use as their primary health care.

Their productivity serves to benefit only their employers while to the rest of us they are a ball & chain.

[XenaLee]

This is in addition to his comments that he wanted to grant amnesty to DACA recipients.  Of course the issue got tossed to the courts and they made the final decision leaving neither Trump or either party responsible.  This bombshell is in addition to DACA.  He wants to pave the way for immigrants to increase our labor force. Where have we seen this scenario?  Why, Germany of course!  The crime in Germany has soared since they've allowed mass migration into their country ... Merkle needed to increase the labor force too!

Trump drops a bombshell on immigration, and no one bothers to report it

It came at a roundtable on tax reform held in Cleveland. Here’s what the president said, after making a no-longer-true comment that the stock market being up 35% since his election in 2016. (The S&P 500 SPX, +0.35% is up about 25% since the election, with this year’s turmoil accounted for.)

“And we do need people coming into our country,” Trump said. “You know, at 3.9% unemployment, we need people coming in. But I will tell you this, we want people to come into our country on the basis of merit.”

Reporters’ jaws didn’t exactly drop at the remark. You won’t find it in the accounts of the speech by the Associated Press, CBS News or the New York Times.

That could be because Trump has long supported a merit-based immigration system, and derided the U.S. lottery system. That’s not new.

And technically, even the harsh legal-immigration bill he supported, called the Raise Act, would allow for more legal immigrants to come into the country. But it would cut their numbers in half.

Still, the emphasis — from Trump — that the U.S. will need to expand its workforce by importing labor, is new. .........

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/trump-drops-a-bombshell-on-immigration-and-no-one-bothers-to-report-it-2018-05-07

So?  The emphasis is, of course, on LEGAL immigration with the added filter of "merit based".   What's wrong with that?

[Hoodat]

Get rid of welfare for able-bodied Americans, and trust me,  Americans would work harder.

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[Hoodat]

So?  The emphasis is, of course, on LEGAL immigration with the added filter of "merit based".   What's wrong with that?

My Indian colleagues are all over that.  They would love to see "merit based" green cards.  Some of them have been working for their initial employer for over a decade waiting for their H1.  It galled them to no end to see the Obama Administration give a green card to the San Bernardino bomber mere weeks after entering the country.  If Trump gets that passed, their US-born America citizen kids will vote Republican for life.

[Jazzhead]

The welfare system is designed to help low-income workers, especially those with children, and this describes many immigrant households.

Putting aside the issue of immigrant status, is the consensus here that the welfare system should not help "low-income workers, especially those with children"?

Should we instead be encouraging those with children to not work, or those who are working in lower-paid jobs not to have children?   

To me, the greatest problem with the welfare system is that it encourages the break-up of families.   As Jason Whitlock wrote in today's WSJ:  "The welfare check, the replacement for black fathers, is liberalism's nicotine."