Don't be surprised if your doctor asks you about guns

[thackney]

So why should my and my family's safety be compromised because gun owners demand the right to assemble arsenals in secret (thereby creating the conditions whereby criminals can do the same thing?)

Your safety is in no way compromised by my legal owning of multiple firearms.  It does not create any condition when the criminal isn't going to follow the law in the first place.

[Jazzhead]

Stick it where the sun doesn’t shine statist...we will not comply...no matter how many times you propose your schemes. 

You want them?  YOU come and get them!  Make sure you dont send someone else.

 

Take you meds, Axeslinger.   

[thackney]

...Thanks, @driftdiver , for proposing this analogy.   We ALL understand the stupidity and selfishness of the left's arguments against voter IDs.   Let's put down our prejudices and paranoia and understand that firearms registration can enhance public safety at little cost to gun owners.   And that our Constitution provides the protection that registration will not lead to confiscation.

Yes, registration required for the use and action, not the mere existence and ownership of the right, but for the use in public affairs.

[Jazzhead]

Your safety is in no way compromised by my legal owning of multiple firearms. 

I have never supported any restrictions on your legal owning of multiple firearms.  Just that you register them so that your use, transfer and disposition of them can be identified as YOUR legal responsibility.   

[INVAR]

Registration is indeed about taking responsibility.   

WE WILL NOT COMPLY.

You are going to have to empower the agents of your government to shoot and kill us to force compliance.

And then, when they come.... it's time to water the tree of liberty.

[thackney]

I have never supported any restrictions on your legal owning of multiple firearms.  Just that you register them so that your use, transfer and disposition of them can be identified as YOUR legal responsibility.

My use is already my legal responsibility.  Transfer and disposition is also in accordance with laws so also my legal responsibility.

What you want is to add to the legal burden and set us up for government abuse, as has been shown in most gun registrations.

[Axeslinger]

WE WILL NOT COMPLY.

You are going to have to empower the agents of your government to shoot and kill us to force compliance.

And then, when they come.... it's time to water the tree of liberty.

More than that I insist that this statist  @Jazzhead volunteer to BE one of those agents of the government.  Otherwise he’s just another gutless troll wanting others to do his dirty work.  As I said above...you want em, YOU come get them.   Otherwise STFU.

[Cyber Liberty]

The purpose of registration - just as it is with cars -  is to assign each firearm to the person who is legally responsible for its use, transfer and disposition.   

You may actually believe that in your heart.  I maintain the purpose of registration is to keep the government up-to-date on where these "Death Machines," as you call them, are so if the need arises they can go around and collect them.  There is ample case history of that being done, every time somebody in government gets the itch.

This is why I'm with @Axeslinger and @INVAR  I will not comply either.  Your protestations to the contrary, I know where that road leads.  Your right to live "safe" and ignorant does not trump my God-given right to self defense.

[Cyber Liberty]

Take you meds, Axeslinger.

And you say I'm wrong to accuse you of mocking.

[Cyber Liberty]

WE WILL NOT COMPLY.

You are going to have to empower the agents of your government to shoot and kill us to force compliance.

And then, when they come.... it's time to water the tree of liberty.

I'm with @Axeslinger.  I think that little guy should not be allowed to delegate the chore of collecting our weapons.  He's the one demanding lives be put at risk to enforce his plan, and a true leader of men goes to the front of the line when it's time to take on risk.

[Jazzhead]

This is why I'm with @Axeslinger and @INVAR  I will not comply either.  Your protestations to the contrary, I know where that road leads.  Your right to live "safe" and ignorant does not trump my God-given right to self defense.

Stop hyperventilating.  No one is threatening your "God given right to self defense".   Set up barbed wire and snipers' nests at all four corners of your property if you're that paranoid about folks knocking on your door.

Registration is about taking responsibility, not deprivation of your rights.  You are legally responsible for the use, transfer and disposition of your firearms.  Do you really disagree with that statement?   Registration is a reasonable tool by which the peaceable community can enforce that responsibility.     

[Jazzhead]

And you say I'm wrong to accuse you of mocking.

Idiocy deserves to be mocked.   

[Jazzhead]

I'm with @Axeslinger.  I think that little guy should not be allowed to delegate the chore of collecting our weapons.  He's the one demanding lives be put at risk to enforce his plan, and a true leader of men goes to the front of the line when it's time to take on risk.

No one is seeking to "collect your weapons".  Take 'em to bed with you for all I care;  tell Mrs. CL to use the couch.   

Of course, if you defy the law,  then you will be the legitimate target of law enforcement.  I predict you'll fold like a cheap tent.   

[driftdiver]

Just because the left adopts an idiot position doesn't mean that conservatives should parrot it.   

Registration is a tiny burden that enhances public safety by encouraging documented transfers and dispositions of firearms.  Just as an ID requirement is a tiny burden that enhances the efficacy of free and fair elections.   

Why should my vote be rendered meaningless because the lack of a photo ID requirement encourages voter fraud?  We all recognize that providing identification to vote is simple common sense. 

So why should my and my family's safety be compromised because gun owners demand the right to assemble arsenals in secret (thereby creating the conditions whereby criminals can do the same thing?)

Thanks, @driftdiver , for proposing this analogy.   We ALL understand the stupidity and selfishness of the left's arguments against voter IDs.   Let's put down our prejudices and paranoia and understand that firearms registration can enhance public safety at little cost to gun owners.   And that our Constitution provides the protection that registration will not lead to confiscation.

@Jazzhead
Your familys safety isn't compromised by gun owners.  Its compromised by criminals who can use a lot of different types of weapons or just their fists.

Your paranoia isn't sufficient cause to infringe.

[thackney]

Stop hyperventilating.  No one is threatening your "God given right to self defense".   Set up barbed wire and snipers' nests at all four corners of your property if you're that paranoid about folks knocking on your door.

Registration is about taking responsibility, not deprivation of your rights.  You are legally responsible for the use, transfer and disposition of your firearms.  Do you really disagree with that statement?  Registration is a reasonable tool by which the peaceable community can enforce that responsibility.   

I would like to explore this claim.

Let us start with use.  How does registration of a firearm enforce responsible use of a firearm as compared to an unregistered firearm?  What has changed impacting use?

[Sanguine]

Idiocy deserves to be mocked.

But, if it helps, I cringe sometimes when people are going after you.

[driftdiver]

No one is seeking to "collect your weapons".  Take 'em to bed with you for all I care;  tell Mrs. CL to use the couch.   

Of course, if you defy the law,  then you will be the legitimate target of law enforcement.  I predict you'll fold like a cheap tent.

@Jazzhead
More lies, of course you want to take peoples guns.  You've openly stated that for all the noise you make about it.

I do notice that you threaten to use force (with firearms) to infringe upon other peoples rights.   While you wouldn't do the dirty work yourself you are more than happy to send others.

Exactly the reason the Founders put the 2nd in there.

[Axeslinger]

No one is seeking to "collect your weapons".  Take 'em to bed with you for all I care;  tell Mrs. CL to use the couch.   

Of course, if you defy the law,  then you will be the legitimate target of law enforcement.  I predict you'll fold like a cheap tent.

And there you have it, folks.  A glimpse behind the curtain. 

You are a tyrant wanna be who is too gutless to put his own ass on the line.   You want em, you come get em, statist

[Cyber Liberty]

Stop hyperventilating.  No one is threatening your "God given right to self defense".   Set up barbed wire and snipers' nests at all four corners of your property if you're that paranoid about folks knocking on your door.

Registration is about taking responsibility, not deprivation of your rights.  You are legally responsible for the use, transfer and disposition of your firearms.  Do you really disagree with that statement?   Registration is a reasonable tool by which the peaceable community can enforce that responsibility.   

OK, one last time:  I disagree that universal registration is benign.  As @thackney has patiently pointed out to you more than once, I already am responsible in the use, transfer and disposition of my arms.  I don't need nor want your, or the the nanny state's help to do so.

I think universal registration is malignant, and is proposed as a manner to get control of the weapons of the citizens to enable a malignant government to become our masters, in deed as well as in name.

If you expect me to cooperate, you can go hang.  I will not comply.  If you think it's a good idea to forcibly register everybody's weapons, then man up and do it yourself.  Don't delegate that chore to somebody else like a coward.

I will not be goaded into replying to any more of your leftist posts on this thread, you are a broken record.  If I reply further on this thread, it will be to others who are actually listening, and not to leftists who are just trying to lecture me.  Good day.

[driftdiver]

I would like to explore this claim.

Let us start with use.  How does registration of a firearm enforce responsible use of a firearm as compared to an unregistered firearm?  What has changed impacting use?

@thackney
IMO we need to be careful about being put on the defensive here.   Like you did, we need to demand they justify all their outrageous plans. 

Guns are illegal in Brazil and Mexico.   They have massive crime problems.   None of these gun control plans work but they keep pushing them.   Because its not about safety, its about control.

[Cyber Liberty]

@Jazzhead
More lies, of course you want to take peoples guns.  You've openly stated that for all the noise you make about it.

I do notice that you threaten to use force (with firearms) to infringe upon other peoples rights.   While you wouldn't do the dirty work yourself you are more than happy to send others.

Exactly the reason the Founders put the 2nd in there.

He's a fookin' coward, and he admits it.  In fact, I think he's rather proud that he thinks he can order other men to come to my house so I can "fold up like a tent."

[thackney]

@thackney
IMO we need to be careful about being put on the defensive here.   Like you did, we need to demand they justify all their outrageous plans. 

Guns are illegal in Brazil and Mexico.   They have massive crime problems.   None of these gun control plans work but they keep pushing them.   Because its not about safety, its about control.

I'm not being defensive.  I am tearing apart the false claims.  When 97% of the guns used in crimes are already illegally obtained, it seems extremely foolish to concentrate on the 3% while pretending it is to reduce gun crime.  Unless your motivation is actually something else.

[roamer_1]

Gun owners have little faith in the Constitution when they demand the right to live separate and apart from the community.

@Jazzhead
Who the hell are you to impose your community on me? In FACT, that is exactly what the Constitution protects against - That is why it is federalist in it's construction. Do what you want to in YOUR state. Leave me and mine ALONE.

[driftdiver]

I'm not being defensive.  I am tearing apart the false claims.  When 97% of the guns used in crimes are already illegally obtained, it seems extremely foolish to concentrate on the 3% while pretending it is to reduce gun crime.  Unless your motivation is actually something else.

Of course their motivation is something else.  You know that, and I know that.  Heck on rare events they even acknowledge it.

They don't care about safety, the children, suicide or anything else (except maybe how to encourage a destructive lifestyle).   No they care about taking the power from the people and keeping it with the govt.

Because when they ban guns they also ban self defense.   They start telling people to hide under their beds and prosecuting them if an intruder gets hurt.

[roamer_1]

It will significantly enhance public safety at minimal  cost to gun owners. 

It does *nothing* to enhance public safety in the cities where it is practiced, and even where guns are illegally possessed (according to city charters)

All it does is keep suckers like you disarmed... and easy prey to the criminal who pays no mind to the law.

Registration is indeed about taking responsibility.   Gun owners are as obliged as anyone else to obey the reasonable laws of our Constitutional republic.     

It is not reasonable.