The Chicken Littles Are Hammering Trump on Trade, but Charles Payne's Truth Bombs Blow Their Theorie

[driftdiver]

Tariffs suck but it's nice to see someone at least trying to watch out for America.   Far better then the past where people focused on giving away our money.

[Hoodat]

@Hoodat   Well, aren't you the self-righteous one.  @jpsb is right on this one.

I must have missed his post where he explained how free trade is detrimental to the US economy?  Still waiting to hear him explain how artificially raising prices (through higher taxes) on steel and aluminum for the US consumer as well as the US manufacturer will produce economic growth.

I just explained the problems SMALL business has in purchasing American.

I would hope that SMALL businesses would operate in their own self interests instead of jeopardizing their investors money and their workers' jobs by serving some alternative goal.

Do you think small business should go OUT of business because of your arbitrary laws?

I'm not the one here proposing arbitrary laws - jpsb is.  I am the one here advocating that government get the hell out of the way.

We should not have to worry about this at all.  We should be able to buy from any country, secure in the knowledge that American manufacturing interests have been protected by our government.

Interesting.  So you are perfectly OK paying seven times the world price for sugar just so US candy manufacturers can shut their doors here and open up shop across the border simply because our government chose to "protect" some Hawaiian sugar plantation owners.  Maybe you can explain to those unemployed workers how wonderful it was that our government prevented them from reaping the benefits of a free market.

If that takes tariffs, then so be it.

At least you're open in your support of higher prices and loss of jobs.

Most people who shop at Wal-mart don't look at 'made in' labels, they look at price labels.

Correctamundo.  They operate according to their own self interests.

We are certainly supporting our government through taxes and we shouldn't have to look at labels.

But you just admitted that people don't look at labels.  They look at prices.

If fair tariffs are needed to enable us to "Buy American" then maybe we need fair tariffs.

Tariffs aren't needed to enable you to 'buy American'.  You can do that by simply looking at the label.   It is your free choice, just as it is my free choice to look at price.  You operate in your own self-interest, and I will operate in mine.  And my self interest is not centered in paying more for steel or aluminum than I have to.

[INVAR]

Tariffs are taxes PAID by the American people to purchase the products and services they want - ON TOP OF the regular sales and other sundry taxations and mandates imposed on business by this government.

The practice of using government to pick winners and losers in a pretend free-market is the standard no one is willing to surrender.

Just like scrapping withholding or tax deductions in favor of flat taxes - this people are conditioned to be serfs by the state - and they are happy to use government to achieve their ends.

Slaves by any other name - but because we gots stuff - we declare ourselves 'free'.

No we're not.  We're drunk on possessions and idleness and entertainments.  The very idea of liberty is reprehensible to most who prefer license and provision by the very government they are beholden.

[truth_seeker]

Tariffs suck but it's nice to see someone at least trying to watch out for America.   Far better then the past where people focused on giving away our money.

Trump is merely doing what he campaigned on.

Some will claim we have been in a trade war all along, and losing it. Trump is finally fighting back.

And he is negotiating. Weak Republicans are shocked that anybody fights back. They are like scared cats.

[Hoodat]

Trump is merely doing what he campaigned on.

Agreed, which is why I argued against Trump before the election.  I can't pretend to be shocked now as if Trump has turned against Conservatism since he didn't support it before.  But I will not pretend that this policy will help the US.  It won't.

Some will claim we have been in a trade war all along, and losing it. Trump is finally fighting back.

And he is negotiating. Weak Republicans are shocked that anybody fights back. They are like scared cats.

Not sure how you can fight back against a free trade agreement.  Are we placing tariffs on Mexican steel because Mexico failed to place tariffs on US steel?  It makes no sense.

Still waiting for someone to show me what is wrong with NAFTA.

[jpsb]

If I could eliminate the income tax, I would.  If I could eliminate tariffs, I would.  If I could eliminate the income tax in favor of tariffs, I would even do that.  But none of it is on the table.  We poor Americans are being forced to abide BOTH income taxes AND tariffs, along with hundreds of other nefarious and underhanded means of taxation.  Our government makes King George look like a piker.

I favor tariffs over an income tax. But you are correct that is not on the table but it should be.
Every dollar collected via a tariff is one less dollar that needs to be collected by an income tax.
Except that we have an out of control spend, spend, spend federal government. Wilson should
have been  hanged, damn Teddy for enabling Wilson.

[jpsb]

I must have missed his post where he explained how free trade is detrimental to the US economy?  Still waiting to hear him explain how artificially raising prices (through higher taxes) on steel and aluminum for the US consumer as well as the US manufacturer will produce economic growth.


I would hope that SMALL businesses would operate in their own self interests instead of jeopardizing their investors money and their workers' jobs by serving some alternative goal.


I'm not the one here proposing arbitrary laws - jpsb is.  I am the one here advocating that government get the hell out of the way.


Interesting.  So you are perfectly OK paying seven times the world price for sugar just so US candy manufacturers can shut their doors here and open up shop across the border simply because our government chose to "protect" some Hawaiian sugar plantation owners.  Maybe you can explain to those unemployed workers how wonderful it was that our government prevented them from reaping the benefits of a free market.


At least you're open in your support of higher prices and loss of jobs.


Correctamundo.  They operate according to their own self interests.


But you just admitted that people don't look at labels.  They look at prices.


Tariffs aren't needed to enable you to 'buy American'.  You can do that by simply looking at the label.   It is your free choice, just as it is my free choice to look at price.  You operate in your own self-interest, and I will operate in mine.  And my self interest is not centered in paying more for steel or aluminum than I have to.

Arguing with a libertarian is a waste of time. They are globalists that don't give a damn about the
USA or the American people. All they want is cheap stuff at Walmart. They don't care that the
commies in China use that money to built machines to kill Americans.

[Hoodat]

Wilson should have been  hanged, damn Teddy for enabling Wilson.

Taft was the one responsible for giving us the income tax.   Only six states refused to ratify it:

Virginia
Florida
Utah
Pennsylvania
Connecticut
Rhode Island

[jpsb]

Tariffs are taxes PAID by the American people to purchase the products and services they want - ON TOP OF the regular sales and other sundry taxations and mandates imposed on business by this government.

The practice of using government to pick winners and losers in a pretend free-market is the standard no one is willing to surrender.

Just like scrapping withholding or tax deductions in favor of flat taxes - this people are conditioned to be serfs by the state - and they are happy to use government to achieve their ends.

Slaves by any other name - but because we gots stuff - we declare ourselves 'free'.

No we're not.  We're drunk on possessions and idleness and entertainments.  The very idea of liberty is reprehensible to most who prefer license and provision by the very government they are beholden.

Tariffs are the means proscribed in the Constitutions for the federal government to raise money.

You can rant on and on but that does not change the fact that the founders of this nation liked
tariffs and threw out most of our history we protected our industry with tariffs.

End the fed.

[jpsb]

Taft was the one responsible for giving us the income tax.   Only six states refused to ratify it:

Virginia
Florida
Utah
Pennsylvania
Connecticut
Rhode Island

hmmm and all these years I've been blaming Woodrow, My bad, thanks for the correction.

[Hoodat]

hmmm and all these years I've been blaming Woodrow, My bad, thanks for the correction.

No problem.  But I agree, fascist Wilson should have been hanged.

[txradioguy]

Interesting.  So you are perfectly OK paying seven times the world price for sugar just so US candy manufacturers can shut their doors here and open up shop across the border simply because our government chose to "protect" some Hawaiian sugar plantation owners.  Maybe you can explain to those unemployed workers how wonderful it was that our government prevented them from reaping the benefits of a free market.

@Hoodat what they want is what China has...and that's crony capitalism as opposed to a true free market economy.  They want Trump to be able to pick the winners and losers in business.

And also keep in mind one of the people trying to lambast you for your correct position on free markets...admitted yesterday they don't know anything about tariffs and whether they are truly good or bad...they are just "hoping what Trump is doing woks out well for the country".

[Emjay]

I must have missed his post where he explained how free trade is detrimental to the US economy?  Still waiting to hear him explain how artificially raising prices (through higher taxes) on steel and aluminum for the US consumer as well as the US manufacturer will produce economic growth.


I would hope that SMALL businesses would operate in their own self interests instead of jeopardizing their investors money and their workers' jobs by serving some alternative goal.


I'm not the one here proposing arbitrary laws - jpsb is.  I am the one here advocating that government get the hell out of the way.


Interesting.  So you are perfectly OK paying seven times the world price for sugar just so US candy manufacturers can shut their doors here and open up shop across the border simply because our government chose to "protect" some Hawaiian sugar plantation owners.  Maybe you can explain to those unemployed workers how wonderful it was that our government prevented them from reaping the benefits of a free market.


At least you're open in your support of higher prices and loss of jobs.


Correctamundo.  They operate according to their own self interests.


But you just admitted that people don't look at labels.  They look at prices.


Tariffs aren't needed to enable you to 'buy American'.  You can do that by simply looking at the label.   It is your free choice, just as it is my free choice to look at price.  You operate in your own self-interest, and I will operate in mine.  And my self interest is not centered in paying more for steel or aluminum than I have to.

@Hoodat

"I would hope that SMALL businesses would operate in their own self interests instead of jeopardizing their investors money and their workers' jobs by serving some alternative goal."

What in the hell does that even mean? 

"I'm not the one here proposing arbitrary laws - jpsb is.  I am the one here advocating that government get the hell out of the way."

Again, your comment makes no sense.  The government is not going to 'get the hell out of the way' so at least I'm hoping they are working for the good of the country.

"Interesting.  So you are perfectly OK paying seven times the world price for sugar just so US candy manufacturers can shut their doors here and open up shop across the border simply because our government chose to "protect" some Hawaiian sugar plantation owners.  Maybe you can explain to those unemployed workers how wonderful it was that our government prevented them from reaping the benefits of a free market."

You've really gone round the bend here.The government is not protecting sugar.  Sugar was once one of Maui's top products.  The last crops were razed last year and the big processing plant closed.  There was no protection.  The plant owners simply could not get enough workers for what they were able to pay and stay in business.  Nobody wants to work in sugar fields or pick cotton apparently.  Your ignorance on this topic makes me doubt all your other opinions and assertions.

Everyone except maybe Mother Theresa operates on what is in the best interest of ourselves and our families.

We should not have to 'buy American.'  Especially when we can't.  We should be able to buy products based on their quality and price.  We should not be forced to operate in a trade imbalance where our products are taxed by other countries and theirs are not.

Nothing you say makes any sense at all.

[jpsb]

U.S. Steel to Restart Illinois Plant Operations Amid Trump’s Tariff Plans

[jpsb]

No problem.  But I agree, fascist Wilson should have been hanged.

Well at least we agree on something.

 

[INVAR]

Tariffs are the means proscribed in the Constitutions for the federal government to raise money.

Then Trump would need to tariff the shit out of every single nation that imports anything into this country to the tune of Tens of TRILLIONS of dollars to fund this government.

Not enough money on the entire planet to cover just our debt alone, not to mention the unfunded mandates and liabilities.

We are so far beyond the Constitution at this point in terms of government overreach and size - that only an absolute collapse of the entire Beast with something rising from it's ashes is going to save us from it.

[DB]

You are so right @jpsb.  My son-in-law has a small manufacturing business.  It's very small and specialized.  He hates buying parts from China, not entirely for political reasons but because Chinese parts are so poorly made.  But many of the things he needs are simply not made in America and those that are, are so expensive that he can't afford to buy them and still make a profit.

Well if you put a tariff on those parts your son-in-law will have to pay more for those parts that he couldn't afford locally. And if his products are sold outside the country he won't sell them anymore because others outside the country will still be able purchase the lower cost parts undercutting him.

If we become an island of higher prices the world will pass us by.

The only way to go forward successfully is be competitive. Period. If we can't be competitive we will wither away. Trade barriers will not protect us.

[DB]

Tariffs are the means proscribed in the Constitutions for the federal government to raise money.

You can rant on and on but that does not change the fact that the founders of this nation liked
tariffs and threw out most of our history we protected our industry with tariffs.

End the fed.

Why don't you read what you wrote again. Tariffs were a means to raise money for the government. Not an economic weapon to protect industries. Tariffs could fund government then because the federal government was tiny and inside its constitutional bounds. You are not proposing to raise tariffs to help fund a government within its constitutional bounds but as a weapon against outside competition. Not the same thing. And the world of trade and transportation has changed a bit since the 1700's...

[INVAR]

Why don't you read what you wrote again. Tariffs were a means to raise money for the government. Not an economic weapon to protect industries. Tariffs could fund government then because the federal government was tiny and inside its constitutional bounds. You are not proposing to raise tariffs to help fund a government within its constitutional bounds but as a weapon against outside competition. Not the same thing. And the world of trade and transportation has changed a bit since the 1700's...

Exactly.

Tariffs today are the preferred weapon of Unions, to limit the choice of Americans to purchase only their products and services - while they fund Democrats and Statists who will give them greater and more kickbacks and bennies in a truly Fascist relationship that benefits both.

[EasyAce]

Most here seem to favor a big gov, progressive income tax and then
with a straight face, say they are conservative.

I prefer a small government, free trade, a free market (no government-shepherded crony capitalist shenanigans favouring or propping up one business over another),
and no income tax.

In other words, a properly construed government whose sole legitimate business---other than protecting us from enemies actual and provably imminent from
abroad and predators (real predators, not mere vicemongers) at home---is staying the hell out of your business, my business, everyone's business,
until or unless one would obstruct or abrogate another's equivalent rights.

I'm funny that way, I guess.

[Bigun]

I prefer a small government, free trade, a free market (no government-shepherded crony capitalist shenanigans favouring or propping up one business over another),
and no income tax.

In other words, a properly construed government whose sole legitimate business---other than protecting us from enemies actual and provably imminent from
abroad and predators (real predators, not mere vicemongers) at home---is staying the hell out of your business, my business, everyone's business,
until or unless one would obstruct or abrogate another's equivalent rights.

I'm funny that way, I guess.

Not all that funny!  I'm pretty much on board with that myself!

[Suppressed]

You are so right @jpsb.  My son-in-law has a small manufacturing business.  It's very small and specialized.  He hates buying parts from China, not entirely for political reasons but because Chinese parts are so poorly made.  But many of the things he needs are simply not made in America and those that are, are so expensive that he can't afford to buy them and still make a profit.

It depends on the product.

I had a client who tried very hard, at great cost to profits, to keep manufacturing in the US.  But when US supplier (using their raw material) faltered, they were forced to go to a Chinese mfg.  And guess what... complaints and returns plummeted.  I was told, "We hate to do it, but we have to switch...the Chinese know how to make garments!"

[jpsb]

Well if you put a tariff on those parts your son-in-law will have to pay more for those parts that he couldn't afford locally. And if his products are sold outside the country he won't sell them anymore because others outside the country will still be able purchase the lower cost parts undercutting him.

If we become an island of higher prices the world will pass us by.

The only way to go forward successfully is be competitive. Period. If we can't be competitive we will wither away. Trade barriers will not protect us.

@DB

How do you compete with an economic super power that is dumping steel in your market?

[DB]

You buy it. Lots of it and stockpile if you need to.

If they are selling at a loss take advantage of it. It corrects itself.

[jpsb]

Why don't you read what you wrote again. Tariffs were a means to raise money for the government. Not an economic weapon to protect industries. Tariffs could fund government then because the federal government was tiny and inside its constitutional bounds. You are not proposing to raise tariffs to help fund a government within its constitutional bounds but as a weapon against outside competition. Not the same thing. And the world of trade and transportation has changed a bit since the 1700's...

They were both. Study up on it.