The Chicken Littles Are Hammering Trump on Trade, but Charles Payne's Truth Bombs Blow Their Theorie

[INVAR]

Then we moved Our Industry offshore. Some cock and bull song about getting it done Cheaper. Not today it ain't. Nothing produced overseas that can't be produced right here, today, at similar or better quality and competitive prices.

You somehow forgot to calculate government regulation, licensing, court-ordered impact studies, environmental mandates, Union demands, labor scale, health insurance requirements... etc., etc., etc.  NONE of which are going to ever be repealed or relaxed, because as Reagan rightly noted, "A government program is the closest thing to eternal life we will ever see on this earth'.

Stated simply: we CANNOT produce what other nations produce at a fraction of the cost.

No one is going to buy an American-made tire at $250.00 retail due to costs that make it $60.00 to produce here, when the same tire can be produced in Korea for $25 and sold for $75.00 retail.  Not unless you tariff the shit out of all imports and limit the American consumer to only buy the products and services Government decides they are limited to buying.

[Hoodat]

Limbaugh summed it up in just 3 words.

"Everybody Wants Stuff."

Limbaugh lifted that from Adam Smith.

[Hoodat]

Nothing produced overseas that can't be produced right here, today, at similar or better quality and competitive prices.

Like sugar?  Pineapples?  Ethanol?  Coffee?  Textiles?  Electronics?

[Bigun]

Like sugar?  Pineapples?  Ethanol?  Coffee?  Textiles?  Electronics?

With the proper tax policy in place, yes to all!

[jpsb]

You keep making that claim without offering a scintilla of evidence to back it up. 

I did think it was necessary.

For most workers, real wages have barely budged for decades

US trade deficit jumps to more than 9-year high

The Real Unemployment Number: 102 Million Working Age Americans Do Not Have A Job

China’s Rise to Global Economic Superpower

[jpsb]

@jpsb

This confirms your own economic ignorance.  Any individual will always operate in his own self interest.  I would be willing to bet that you still drink foreign-grown coffee or tea, or that you wear underwear made in Honduras, or that you use computer chips made in Taiwan, or flat screens made in South Korea.  Do you do this because you want to make Taiwan, South Korea, or Costa Rica economic super powers?  Or do you do this because those products give you the most utility for your dollars?

I can purchase a pair of foreign-made khakis at Costco for $20.  Or I can purchase a pair of American-made khakis for $160.  If I buy the foreign khakis, then I will have $140 left over to buy more stuff.  If I purchase the American-made khakis, then I lose the opportunity to buy $140 of more stuff, but I get great quality pants and can feel good about buying American-made.

This is the invisible hand.  This is the choice of a single individual multiplied millions of times.  This is what drives the economy.  Because your choice may not be the same as mine.  Your choice is the best for you.  And mine is the best for me.  But neither choice is made for the manufacturer's best interest.  They are made for the individual's best interest.

Wrong I check the label and only buy goods made in US or an ally of the US like Japan, UK,
Germany, S.K, Israel, etc. I do not buy Chicom if I have a choice. I see no point in sending
the chicoms money so they can build up their military.

[XenaLee]

I did think it was necessary.

For most workers, real wages have barely budged for decades

US trade deficit jumps to more than 9-year high

The Real Unemployment Number: 102 Million Working Age Americans Do Not Have A Job

China’s Rise to Global Economic Superpower

My memory isn't perfect, by any means.... but I don't recall there having been 'talk' of any recession during the December 2007 period.  I seem to recall it starting around September/October of 2008.  Is there some of that revisionist history going on?   

I do recall the billions that were being drawn out of the US economy on 9/18/08.... because it was right after Hurricane Ike hit Houston and I was without power that weekend, had to play catchup on the news.

[massadvj]

Wrong I check the label and only buy goods made in US or an ally of the US like Japan, UK,
Germany, S.K, Israel, etc. I do not buy Chicom if I have a choice. I see no point in sending
the chicoms money so they can build up their military.

It is interesting that you enjoy your freedom to choose what to buy, but feel no qualms about forcing the rest of us to buy according to your whims. 

Trade restrictions are anathema to the tenets of the founding documents of our republic, which guaranteed certain "inalienable" liberties, including property rights.  Erecting trade barriers is an act of a collectivist society that fundamentally understands its socialistic tendencies make it disadvantageous to trade with others, and so it must "lock in" its industry, and eventually its human capital as well. 

It won't work here any better than it has worked anywhere else (including the Soviet Union), for the simple reason that the two great forces of our time, globalization and technology, are bigger than any politician, including Trump.

[Hoodat]

I did think it was necessary.

For most workers, real wages have barely budged for decades

No connection with this article and trade policy.

US trade deficit jumps to more than 9-year high

For the umpteenth time, so what?  You need to decide what you want here.  Economic growth?  Or trade surplus.   Please make up your mind which one.  Because this thread is about the effect of restricted trade policy on the economy - not on the trade deficit.  And as I have pointed out to you multiple times already, trade deficit dollars end up being invested back into the US as investment capital.

The Real Unemployment Number: 102 Million Working Age Americans Do Not Have A Job

Another article that has zero connection with trade policy.

China’s Rise to Global Economic Superpower

The Huffington Post?  You outdid yourself.  Unfortunately, your article is about China -not the US.  You seem to have this 'envy' problem going on here.  But if you read your HuffPo article, you will see the second contributing factor to China's rise was to get out from under Soviet influence and open themselves up to world trade.  Go figure.

Now you want to talk about the national debt?  Again, no connection to trade policy here.  Our national debt is due solely to Congress spending too much money, especially at a time when tax revenues have never been higher.  Again, zero connection to trade policy.

So back to the question:  Do you have any causal evidence at all that proves how free trade is detrimental to the US economy?  Or even better, show how artificially raising prices (through higher taxes) on steel and aluminum for the US consumer as well as the US manufacturer will produce economic growth.

[jpsb]

My memory isn't perfect, by any means.... but I don't recall there having been 'talk' of any recession during the December 2007 period.  I seem to recall it starting around September/October of 2008.  Is there some of that revisionist history going on?   

The Great Recession began in December 2007 and ended in June 2009, which makes it the longest recession since World War II.


https://www.federalreservehistory.org/essays/great_recession_of_200709

[Hoodat]

It is interesting that you enjoy your freedom to choose what to buy, but feel no qualms about forcing the rest of us to buy according to your whims.

It's what leftists do.

[jpsb]

It is interesting that you enjoy your freedom to choose what to buy, but feel no qualms about forcing the rest of us to buy according to your whims. 

Tariffs are the constitutional means of raising money for gov. Interesting that you prefer the Marxist
income tax to tariffs.

[jpsb]

Trade restrictions are anathema to the tenets of the founding documents of our republic, which guaranteed certain "inalienable" liberties, including property rights.  Erecting trade barriers is an act of a collectivist society that fundamentally understands its socialistic tendencies make it disadvantageous to trade with others, and so it must "lock in" its industry, and eventually its human capital as well. 

One of the first things passed by the first Congress was the Tariff Act of 1789. So you are full
of it.

[jpsb]

It won't work here any better than it has worked anywhere else (including the Soviet Union), for the simple reason that the two great forces of our time, globalization and technology, are bigger than any politician, including Trump.

More Bull, we became an economic super power behind tariffs walls. Now with so called free trade
we are a mere shadow of our former economic self.

[Hoodat]

Wrong I check the label and only buy goods made in US or an ally of the US like Japan, UK,
Germany, S.K, Israel, etc. I do not buy Chicom if I have a choice.

If you have a choice?  You always have a choice.  What you meant to say is that you don't buy from China unless it is something you really really really want.  And in that case, you are willing to bend your principles while still holding the rest of us in contempt.  Hypocrite much?

[jpsb]

No connection with this article and trade policy.

Bull competition with low wage countries has held down wages here.

[XenaLee]

The Great Recession began in December 2007 and ended in June 2009, which makes it the longest recession since World War II.


https://www.federalreservehistory.org/essays/great_recession_of_200709

Funny.... but.... I kinda thought the huge money market draw-down (9/18/08) was what kicked the "Great" Recession off... coupled with the mortgage industry collapse due to Democrats.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2009/2/9/695504/-

[jpsb]

If you have a choice?  You always have a choice.  What you meant to say is that you don't buy from China unless it is something you really really really want.  And in that case, you are willing to bend your principles while still holding the rest of us in contempt.  Hypocrite much?

Sometimes you do not have a choice. If I want to fix something and need a part that is only made
in China then I have to buy the China part. I am not going to let a major purchase sit idle of lack
of a part.

[jpsb]

Funny.... but.... I kinda thought the huge money market draw-down (9/18/08) was what kicked the "Great" Recession off... coupled with the mortgage industry collapse due to Democrats.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2009/2/9/695504/-

noun: recession; plural noun: recessions

    1.
    a period of temporary economic decline during which trade and industrial activity are reduced, generally identified by a fall in GDP in two successive quarters.

[INVAR]

More Bull, we became an economic super power behind tariffs walls. Now with so called free trade
we are a mere shadow of our former economic self.

And slavery is freedom, war is peace and all that rotgut.

"I had to abandon free market principles in order to save the free market system." - George W. Bush

[Emjay]

Tariffs are the constitutional means of raising money for gov. Interesting that you prefer the Marxist
income tax to tariffs.

Congrats to all the last posters for staying on topic and avoiding personal insults.

Interesting comment @jpsb about comparing the income tax to tariffs.  I don't know that the comparison totally holds water but the IRS certainly has more power over us as individuals than any tariff would have.

It needs to go.  The only primary candidate with a workable, serious plan was Ted Cruz.  I would vote for anyone who could get rid of the IRS.

[Emjay]

Sometimes you do not have a choice. If I want to fix something and need a part that is only made
in China then I have to buy the China part. I am not going to let a major purchase sit idle of lack
of a part.

You are so right @jpsb.  My son-in-law has a small manufacturing business.  It's very small and specialized.  He hates buying parts from China, not entirely for political reasons but because Chinese parts are so poorly made.  But many of the things he needs are simply not made in America and those that are, are so expensive that he can't afford to buy them and still make a profit.

[Hoodat]

Sometimes you do not have a choice. If I want . . .

Stop the tape right there.  It's all about what you want (which has been Adam Smith's point all along).

to fix something and need a part that is only made
in China then I have to buy the China part.

No, you don't "have to buy the China part".  You CHOOSE to buy the China part.  You willfully bend your principles out of personal expediency, acting in your own self-interest instead of some higher goal of denying China your consumer dollars.

Not to mention that said part can be re-manufactured by a skilled American worker.  The price could be hefty, but you have already shown that you would prefer purchasing the cheaper Chinese replacement than paying a skilled American several times that amount to have it rebuilt.
 

I am not going to let a major purchase sit idle of lack of a part.

Again, your choice as well as your excuse for surrendering your principles and acting in your own self interest.

[Emjay]

Stop the tape right there.  It's all about what you want (which has been Adam Smith's point all along).


No, you don't "have to buy the China part".  You CHOOSE to buy the China part.  You willfully bend your principles out of personal expediency, acting in your own self-interest instead of some higher goal of denying China your consumer dollars.

Not to mention that said part can be re-manufactured by a skilled American worker.  The price could be hefty, but you have already shown that you would prefer purchasing the cheaper Chinese replacement than paying a skilled American several times that amount to have it rebuilt.
 

Again, your choice as well as your excuse for surrendering your principles and acting in your own self interest.

@Hoodat   Well, aren't you the self-righteous one.  @jpsb is right on this one.

I just explained the problems SMALL business has in purchasing American.

Do you think small business should go OUT of business because of your arbitrary laws?

We should not have to worry about this at all.  We should be able to buy from any country, secure in the knowledge that American manufacturing interests have been protected by our government.

If that takes tariffs, then so be it.  Most people who shop at Wal-mart don't look at 'made in' labels, they look at price labels.  We are certainly supporting our government through taxes and we shouldn't have to look at labels.  I did that for a while, but that has not helped American industry.

If fair tariffs are needed to enable us to "Buy American" then maybe we need fair tariffs.

[massadvj]

Tariffs are the constitutional means of raising money for gov. Interesting that you prefer the Marxist
income tax to tariffs.

If I could eliminate the income tax, I would.  If I could eliminate tariffs, I would.  If I could eliminate the income tax in favor of tariffs, I would even do that.  But none of it is on the table.  We poor Americans are being forced to abide BOTH income taxes AND tariffs, along with hundreds of other nefarious and underhanded means of taxation.  Our government makes King George look like a piker.