Author Topic: Underestimating Trump Supporters ...David Limbaugh  (Read 1482 times)

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Offline mystery-ak

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Underestimating Trump Supporters ...David Limbaugh
« on: January 06, 2018, 04:13:12 pm »

Underestimating Trump Supporters
David Limbaugh
1/5/2018 12:01:00 AM

It is disheartening to see the ongoing rift between those conservatives supporting President Donald Trump and those opposing him -- a rift that began before Trump and may survive his presidency.

Many conservatives opposed Trump's nomination because they believed he was not a true conservative -- not even really a bona fide Republican -- but rather a narcissistic opportunist who wanted to take his game show hosting and self-promotional platform to a grander stage.

Many also thought that a Trump presidency, even if it would somewhat forestall the Obama-Clinton agenda, would not be worth the long-term damage it would do to the conservative movement. They believed a Trump victory would embolden the so-called alt-right movement, which they saw as Trump's main base. They saw a mob-like mentality among many of his supporters, saying they were fueled by rage and would rubber-stamp every crazy idea Trump might pursue and also push him to pursue even nuttier ideas.

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https://townhall.com/columnists/davidlimbaugh/2018/01/05/underestimating-trump-supporters-n2430189
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Offline Night Hides Not

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Re: Underestimating Trump Supporters ...David Limbaugh
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2018, 06:43:39 pm »
Has Townhall eliminated comments? This screed was designed for baiting clicks!

How much longer will we be subjected to this tripe?

NT’s will never be persuaded, but Trump needs to expand his loyal base into a governing majority.
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Offline Concerned

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Re: Underestimating Trump Supporters ...David Limbaugh
« Reply #2 on: January 06, 2018, 07:12:09 pm »
Has Townhall eliminated comments? This screed was designed for baiting clicks!

How much longer will we be subjected to this tripe?

NT’s will never be persuaded, but Trump needs to expand his loyal base into a governing majority.

And is he even capable of modifying his behavior to expand support beyond his base?  Trump got 46.1% of the electorate.  Hillary, an incredibly flawed candidate, won the popular vote.  Trump won a number of key swing states by thin margins (e.g., Michigan by 0.3% of the vote; Wisconsin by 1%; Pennsylvania by 1.2%; Florida by 1.3%).  I remain confused as to why he seemingly insists on only appealing to his base (which, of course, is solidly with him regardless of what he says or does).   With all-time low approval ratings, I just don’t see that he’s doing much to expand the 46.1% of the electorate he got in 2016, but he has certainly energized “The Resistance” (and continues to do so). 

Whether Trump supporters are being underestimated or overestimated, can they be grown under this President’s leadership?   Is he capable of changing in order to appeal beyond his base?  I just don’t see the evidence of that, and wacky tweets, petty squabbles, exaggerations, lies, and being braggadocious aren’t growing his supporters IMO.
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Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Underestimating Trump Supporters ...David Limbaugh
« Reply #3 on: January 06, 2018, 07:21:29 pm »
..... I just don’t see that he’s doing much to expand the 46.1% of the electorate he got in 2016,

DJIA 25,000+, Big gains against ISIS,  lower unemployment, Justice Gorsuch, eliminated individual mandate for Obamacare, Tax reductions, more growth in the economy, reduced illegal immigration, standing stronger in the international community, left the Paris accords over globull warming, increased oil leasing, approved the pipeline, reduced support for the UN, reduced aid to Pakistan, etc.

That is what he is doing. What did you want? Surely I messed other gains.

Why don't you mention where he is falling short.
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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Underestimating Trump Supporters ...David Limbaugh
« Reply #4 on: January 06, 2018, 07:29:29 pm »
... Whether Trump supporters are being underestimated or overestimated, can they be grown under this President’s leadership?   Is he capable of changing in order to appeal beyond his base?  I just don’t see the evidence of that, and wacky tweets, petty squabbles, exaggerations, lies, and being braggadocious aren’t growing his supporters IMO.

If this is all you're seeing .... you're wearing blinders.

The rest of America is not.

Offline INVAR

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Re: Underestimating Trump Supporters ...David Limbaugh
« Reply #5 on: January 06, 2018, 07:46:08 pm »
If this is all you're seeing .... you're wearing blinders.

The rest of America is not.

Then why the constant lecturing, finger pointing, screaming and yelling that Trump is the greatest leader in the history of mankind and that those who did not support or vote for him are wrong, wrong, WRONG to have failed to salute his greatness and loft him to the honored place of reverence demanded we place him???

If we tiny few, who were said were not needed, nor wanted nor regarded for Trump to have success - why this constant haranguing and screeching and lamenting the fact that the tiny inconsequential fraction of Conservatives who do not support Trump must be shamed for their intransigence?

Only people who are not secure in their own convictions about their leader act this way towards those who do not share their opinion.
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Offline Concerned

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Re: Underestimating Trump Supporters ...David Limbaugh
« Reply #6 on: January 06, 2018, 07:57:39 pm »
DJIA 25,000+, Big gains against ISIS,  lower unemployment, Justice Gorsuch, eliminated individual mandate for Obamacare, Tax reductions, more growth in the economy, reduced illegal immigration, standing stronger in the international community, left the Paris accords over globull warming, increased oil leasing, approved the pipeline, reduced support for the UN, reduced aid to Pakistan, etc.

That is what he is doing. What did you want? Surely I messed other gains.

Why don't you mention where he is falling short.

And yet his approval ratings are in the tank.  I think people vote with their pocketbooks and what impacts them directly.  Most of the things you list don't significantly impact the average joe directly.  Take even the tax cut:  Median household income is around $58K.  The analysis I’ve seen indicates that the average household will receive a tax decrease somewhere in the $500 to $800 range.  Assuming $650 for the average family, that represents all of an additional $12.50 a week.  I doubt that’s going to have a major impact on voters and doubt that will significantly increase this President’s approval rating or the size of his electorate.

I think he could have expanded his base by acting like an adult, much less twitter, by focusing the majority of the tax cuts on the middle class rather than business, by truly reaching across the aisle (starting with infrastructure could have set an entirely different tone for this Presidency), by not attacking members of his own party.  Those are a handful of places where I think he's falling short.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2018, 08:24:25 pm by Concerned »
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Offline Concerned

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Re: Underestimating Trump Supporters ...David Limbaugh
« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2018, 08:01:21 pm »
If this is all you're seeing .... you're wearing blinders.

The rest of America is not.

Fair enough.  What's the evidence or data you have?  If I've got the blinders, please assist me so I can see what you're seeing.  I see abysmal approval ratings.  I see various sources that say anywhere from 7% to 12% wouldn't vote for him again (even though they did in 2016).  What evidence am I missing that he's appealing beyond his base or even capable of appealing beyond his base?
« Last Edit: January 06, 2018, 08:13:31 pm by Concerned »
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Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Underestimating Trump Supporters ...David Limbaugh
« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2018, 08:15:11 pm »
And yet his approval ratings are in the tank.  I think people vote with their pocketbooks and what impacts them directly.  Most of the things you list don't significantly impact the average joe directly.  Take even the tax cut:  Median household income is around $58K.  The analysis I’ve seen indicates that the average household will receive a tax decrease somewhere in the $500 to $800 range.  Assuming $650 for the average family, that represents all of an additional $12.50 a week.  I doubt that’s going to have a major impact on voters and doubt that will significantly increase this President’s approval rating or the size of his electorate.

I think he could have expanded his base by acting like an adult, much less twitter, by focusing the majority of the tax cuts on the middle class rather than business, by truly reaching across the aisle (starting with infrastructure could have set an entirely different tone for this Presidency), by not attacking members of his own party.  Those are a handful of places where I think he's falling short.
Whatever. In my family the Trump supporters work and pay taxes and support themselves.

The Trump detractors basically live off the efforts of other. They vote democrat, and sound like democrats.

I have been voting for Republicans since 1976. I am very happy with the current president and the results of his positions and policies.

I am a realistic "glass half-full" type. I don't get up everyday, looking for what is wrong, deficient in my world.

But I surmise that #nevertrumpers are the negative, never-satisfied folks. When I managed people, from time to time one such would turn up. Usually highly intelligent, but impractical when it came to results.

It proved overly difficult to provide instructions about the work at hand. They required endless discussion of every wrinkle and crease, so to speak. The solution was transfer them, and get practical results oriented folks instead.

And I'm not talking about clerk typists. I am talking about engineers, accountants, analysts, MBAs and CPAs.
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Offline Concerned

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Re: Underestimating Trump Supporters ...David Limbaugh
« Reply #9 on: January 06, 2018, 08:23:24 pm »
Whatever. In my family the Trump supporters work and pay taxes and support themselves.

The Trump detractors basically live off the efforts of other. They vote democrat, and sound like democrats.

I have been voting for Republicans since 1976. I am very happy with the current president and the results of his positions and policies.

I am a realistic "glass half-full" type. I don't get up everyday, looking for what is wrong, deficient in my world.

But I surmise that #nevertrumpers are the negative, never-satisfied folks. When I managed people, from time to time one such would turn up. Usually highly intelligent, but impractical when it came to results.

It proved overly difficult to provide instructions about the work at hand. They required endless discussion of every wrinkle and crease, so to speak. The solution was transfer them, and get practical results oriented folks instead.

And I'm not talking about clerk typists. I am talking about engineers, accountants, analysts, MBAs and CPAs.

You asked what I wanted and where I saw the shortfalls, and I provided them.  Look, I've voted Republican in every Presidential election since 1980..............except 2016, and I have no regrets for any of those votes.  A buddy of mine (a Trump voter) recently asked me:  "You really didn't think the craziness, childishness, and chaos in the White House would be this bad, did you?"

I replied, "This is exactly what I expected."

He, my father, and another buddy all voted for Trump, but they all say they won't vote for him again.  I know that's anecdotal but it's also consistent with his approval numbers and with the polls that show somewhere around 10% of his voters are having buyer's remorse.  Having said, I've also got a brother-in-law and sister-in-law who represent his base and will vote for him no matter what.  The fact remains that the evidence that I'm seeing has him losing from the 46.1% of the electorate he got not increasing it.  That seems problematic to me.
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Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Underestimating Trump Supporters ...David Limbaugh
« Reply #10 on: January 06, 2018, 08:36:25 pm »
You asked what I wanted and where I saw the shortfalls, and I provided them.  Look, I've voted Republican in every Presidential election since 1980..............except 2016, and I have no regrets for any of those votes.  A buddy of mine (a Trump voter) recently asked me:  "You really didn't think the craziness, childishness, and chaos in the White House would be this bad, did you?"

I replied, "This is exactly what I expected."

He, my father, and another buddy all voted for Trump, but they all say they won't vote for him again.  I know that's anecdotal but it's also consistent with his approval numbers and with the polls that show somewhere around 10% of his voters are having buyer's remorse.  Having said, I've also got a brother-in-law and sister-in-law who represent his base and will vote for him no matter what.  The fact remains that the evidence that I'm seeing has him losing from the 46.1% of the electorate he got not increasing it.  That seems problematic to me.
You fulfill my "glass half-empty" model. Always nits to pick.

When a work crew forms up in the morning (construction types, or financial analysts---I have worked with both), you have the people that show up.

Work needs to be completed every day. As much good work as possible. There is no slack for bemoaning the imperfections of the team members.

On the subject at hand today: I remember on strict, hard taskmaster. Military vet. Worked his way through a state college in engineering. Then traveled the world, managing huge complex construction projects.

Promoted nearly to the top of his Fortune 500 corporation. He instructed staff to "find the bullets. I'll pull the trigger."

His subordinate detractors said he was illiterate. That he couldn't read. However once retired he started writing books about his home state's history, geography etc. (Rocky Mountain ranching, btw)
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Offline Concerned

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Re: Underestimating Trump Supporters ...David Limbaugh
« Reply #11 on: January 06, 2018, 08:44:50 pm »
You fulfill my "glass half-empty" model. Always nits to pick.

When a work crew forms up in the morning (construction types, or financial analysts---I have worked with both), you have the people that show up.

Work needs to be completed every day. As much good work as possible. There is no slack for bemoaning the imperfections of the team members.

On the subject at hand today: I remember on strict, hard taskmaster. Military vet. Worked his way through a state college in engineering. Then traveled the world, managing huge complex construction projects.

Promoted nearly to the top of his Fortune 500 corporation. He instructed staff to "find the bullets. I'll pull the trigger."

His subordinate detractors said he was illiterate. That he couldn't read. However once retired he started writing books about his home state's history, geography etc. (Rocky Mountain ranching, btw)

The thread is about underestimating Trump supporters.  I've noted that there appear to be fewer than there were and that the President has not done much to increase their numbers.  The evidence I've seen has born this out.  If you consider that a "nit to pick", you're entitled to that opinion, but when the candidate only garnered 46.1% of the vote the first time, and appears to be losing voters, that seems like it's more than a just "nit" to me.  JMO. 

Having said all that on the actually topic at hand, I agree with you that there are contributors on jobs and there are non-contributors.  Fortunately, I've always been in the former category.
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Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Underestimating Trump Supporters ...David Limbaugh
« Reply #12 on: January 06, 2018, 08:50:46 pm »
The thread is about underestimating Trump supporters.  I've noted that there appear to be fewer than there were and that the President has not done much to increase their numbers.  The evidence I've seen has born this out.  If you consider that a "nit to pick", you're entitled to that opinion, but when the candidate only garnered 46.1% of the vote the first time, and appears to be losing voters, that seems like it's more than a just "nit" to me.  JMO. 

Having said all that on the actually topic at hand, I agree with you that there are contributors on jobs and there are non-contributors.  Fortunately, I've always been in the former category.

You seem to be hung up with the popular vote. Trump can't get the votes from NY, CA, IL, NJ  etc. where they are chocked full of socialist takers.

Fortunately we are a representative republic, not a pure democracy.
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Offline Concerned

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Re: Underestimating Trump Supporters ...David Limbaugh
« Reply #13 on: January 06, 2018, 09:01:35 pm »
You seem to be hung up with the popular vote. Trump can't get the votes from NY, CA, IL, NJ  etc. where they are chocked full of socialist takers.

Fortunately we are a representative republic, not a pure democracy.

I'm using the popular vote simply as shorthand.  Sorry I wasn't clear about that.  Taking the four states I identified in Reply #2 as having thin margins of victory for Trump, if those were to flip away from Trump, they represent 75 electoral votes.  That seems problematic to me.  If you or anyone else think Trump has increased support from the levels of last November, I just wish you'd provide the evidence of that because I'm just no seeing it.  Even though he won by a relatively large electoral margin, he did lose the popular vote and was extremely close in the four states I identified.  I just don't think he can afford to lose all that many supporters and expect to get reelected.  That's really my whole point.
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Offline corbe

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Re: Underestimating Trump Supporters ...David Limbaugh
« Reply #14 on: January 06, 2018, 09:13:09 pm »
    The first 5 paragraphs were Good.  I stopped reading here. 
    FTA:

Quote
Then two things happened. The first was that Trump won the GOP nomination fairly and squarely.
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Re: Underestimating Trump Supporters ...David Limbaugh
« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2018, 09:17:25 pm »
And yet his approval ratings are in the tank.  I think people vote with their pocketbooks and what impacts them directly.  Most of the things you list don't significantly impact the average joe directly.  Take even the tax cut:  Median household income is around $58K.  The analysis I’ve seen indicates that the average household will receive a tax decrease somewhere in the $500 to $800 range.  Assuming $650 for the average family, that represents all of an additional $12.50 a week.  I doubt that’s going to have a major impact on voters and doubt that will significantly increase this President’s approval rating or the size of his electorate.

I think he could have expanded his base by acting like an adult, much less twitter, by focusing the majority of the tax cuts on the middle class rather than business, by truly reaching across the aisle (starting with infrastructure could have set an entirely different tone for this Presidency), by not attacking members of his own party.  Those are a handful of places where I think he's falling short.

Why anyone continues to put any stock at all in the clearly skewed emanations of the media at this point is a mystery to me but please do carry on.
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Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Underestimating Trump Supporters ...David Limbaugh
« Reply #16 on: January 06, 2018, 09:36:12 pm »
I'm using the popular vote simply as shorthand.  Sorry I wasn't clear about that.  Taking the four states I identified in Reply #2 as having thin margins of victory for Trump, if those were to flip away from Trump, they represent 75 electoral votes.  That seems problematic to me.  If you or anyone else think Trump has increased support from the levels of last November, I just wish you'd provide the evidence of that because I'm just no seeing it.  Even though he won by a relatively large electoral margin, he did lose the popular vote and was extremely close in the four states I identified.  I just don't think he can afford to lose all that many supporters and expect to get reelected.  That's really my whole point.

So the issue of greatest importance to you is his 2020 re election chances? And you didn't vote for him? Are you even inclined to vote for him, then, provided he even runs? Do you live in one of those four states?

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Re: Underestimating Trump Supporters ...David Limbaugh
« Reply #17 on: January 06, 2018, 09:56:29 pm »
    The first 5 paragraphs were Good.  I stopped reading here. 
    FTA:

Clarify your reasoning: He didn’t win fair and square.

Tell us, then. How did he cheat? Did he use the tactics of a hard fought political campaign too darn effectively for your taste?

Or was it that he used the tactics of a hard fought political campaign too effectively against YOUR preferred candidate? Stubborn pride much?

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Offline InHeavenThereIsNoBeer

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Re: Underestimating Trump Supporters ...David Limbaugh
« Reply #18 on: January 06, 2018, 10:07:06 pm »
And yet his approval ratings are in the tank.  I think people vote with their pocketbooks and what impacts them directly.  Most of the things you list don't significantly impact the average joe directly.  Take even the tax cut:  Median household income is around $58K.  The analysis I’ve seen indicates that the average household will receive a tax decrease somewhere in the $500 to $800 range.  Assuming $650 for the average family, that represents all of an additional $12.50 a week.  I doubt that’s going to have a major impact on voters and doubt that will significantly increase this President’s approval rating or the size of his electorate.

I think he could have expanded his base by acting like an adult, much less twitter, by focusing the majority of the tax cuts on the middle class rather than business, by truly reaching across the aisle (starting with infrastructure could have set an entirely different tone for this Presidency), by not attacking members of his own party.  Those are a handful of places where I think he's falling short.

I agree with your comment about people voting based on what impacts them directly.  People always talk about the unemployment rate, but I doubt they really give a hill of beans about the number or direction, as compared to the way they feel about their personal economic situation (and those of friends and families).

I agree that $12/week isn't a life changer, but I don't think the average voter is going to look at it that way.  If they get a bigger tax refund next year they're going to see a big chunk of "extra" money.  And since everyone thinks the POTUS runs everything, he'll look better.

He's doing some things right on the economic end (regulations, drilling, possibly signing the tax changes).  If those things flow over into the economy at large, and aren't offset by an overdue correction he could pick up some voters.  Same for the stock market bubble (though IMO the odds of correction in the next three years are way higher than for the real economy).

There's also those of us who did not vote for him the first time, but might if he keeps it up over the next three years.  I don't know how many there are of us, and therefore I don't know if we're enough to offset the ones he's turning off, but we are out there.

But yeah, he doesn't have much room for error.  A lot of his electoral votes came in very close races.
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Offline anubias

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Re: Underestimating Trump Supporters ...David Limbaugh
« Reply #19 on: January 06, 2018, 10:20:55 pm »
I’ve never been much of a David Limbaugh fan, but he hit the nail on the head with this article.   :amen:

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Re: Underestimating Trump Supporters ...David Limbaugh
« Reply #20 on: January 06, 2018, 10:21:34 pm »
I’ve never been much of a David Limbaugh fan, but he hit the nail on the head with this article.   :amen:

Yes he did. 
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Re: Underestimating Trump Supporters ...David Limbaugh
« Reply #21 on: January 06, 2018, 10:24:19 pm »
$12 a week is $624.
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Offline Concerned

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Re: Underestimating Trump Supporters ...David Limbaugh
« Reply #22 on: January 06, 2018, 10:30:45 pm »
So the issue of greatest importance to you is his 2020 re election chances? And you didn't vote for him? Are you even inclined to vote for him, then, provided he even runs? Do you live in one of those four states?

Yes, I am very interested in his 2020 re-election chances.  I'm not sure I'd call it the issue of "greatest importance to me", but it's certainly important to me.   I'm always interested when people do things that seemingly are against their own interest, and Trump appears to be a plethora of those with one of the most glaring being insisting on only appealing to a base that will never leave him no matter what he does. 

I did not vote for him.  I may have been inclined to vote for him in 2020 had the weight of the office caused him to act like an adult; had he truly demonstrated that he was a great deal-maker and creative negotiator; and had he shown he was a real fiscal conservative by eliminating deficit spending and tackled the debt.  Instead we've gotten, well..........you know.

I don't live in one of those states.  I live in New Jersey, and the tax cut about which he said on December 21:  "Everybody is getting a tax cut, especially the middle class." is a tax increase for me.  I'm not surprised I'm getting a tax increase, and I'm not even that disappointed about it.  I just don't like being lied to about it.
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Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Underestimating Trump Supporters ...David Limbaugh
« Reply #23 on: January 06, 2018, 11:22:32 pm »
Yes, I am very interested in his 2020 re-election chances.  I'm not sure I'd call it the issue of "greatest importance to me", but it's certainly important to me.   I'm always interested when people do things that seemingly are against their own interest, and Trump appears to be a plethora of those with one of the most glaring being insisting on only appealing to a base that will never leave him no matter what he does. 

I did not vote for him.  I may have been inclined to vote for him in 2020 had the weight of the office caused him to act like an adult; had he truly demonstrated that he was a great deal-maker and creative negotiator; and had he shown he was a real fiscal conservative by eliminating deficit spending and tackled the debt.  Instead we've gotten, well..........you know.

I don't live in one of those states.  I live in New Jersey, and the tax cut about which he said on December 21:  "Everybody is getting a tax cut, especially the middle class." is a tax increase for me.  I'm not surprised I'm getting a tax increase, and I'm not even that disappointed about it.  I just don't like being lied to about it.
I live in California, but I am considering leaving since the democrats now control everything, and matters are getting worse. So I might wind up in a state where my vote counted, like Arizona.

Based on the results so far, I would jump at the chance to vote for Trump again, shortcomings and all.

We have not seen conservative results like this, since Reagan's first term. 
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Offline Concerned

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Re: Underestimating Trump Supporters ...David Limbaugh
« Reply #24 on: January 06, 2018, 11:36:52 pm »
I live in California, but I am considering leaving since the democrats now control everything, and matters are getting worse. So I might wind up in a state where my vote counted, like Arizona.

Based on the results so far, I would jump at the chance to vote for Trump again, shortcomings and all.

We have not seen conservative results like this, since Reagan's first term.

I'm a fiscal conservative and a social libertarian.  What are his top 3 FISCAL conservative accomplishments so far in your opinion?  His tax bill creates a $1.5T revenue shortfall that may or may not be offset by growth (depends on who you ask so it's far from certain either way IMO).  He's added almost $600B to the deficit and his current budget continues that for each of the next 10 years.  He's talking about increasing military spending, a massive infrastructure effort, and asking Congress for wall funding that was promised to come from Mexico.  He says he won't touch entitlements.
 
What exactly are his FISCAL conservative accomplishments to date? 
« Last Edit: January 06, 2018, 11:37:14 pm by Concerned »
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