Leftover Discussion Thread: AL Special Election

[DiogenesLamp]

No, McConnel wasn't afraid of that in the least. If Moore was suspected to only be a plac3eholder and a secure vote, Mitch wouldn't have been so hasty to attack. I seriously believe that Mitch was afraid Moore would get an eyefull of 'bidness as usual' on the Hill and expose it. That's why Moore was so soundly attacked by both sides, and the allegations were just an excuse.

Exposing "business as usual"  was exactly what I posted on another thread.   Moore had demonstrated time and again that he couldn't be bought,  and he wouldn't go along with the "good ole boy"  system of Washington DC.   

[Smokin Joe]

Well..... I would never cast a vote for ANY damned Clinton bitch...

but other than that, I would support anyone running against the McConnell bitch...lol.

I think it is so important to put that ass out on his (ass) that I will donate to the Democrat if he isn't primaried.

[DiogenesLamp]

The Seven mistress allegations against Cruz were timed to hit the endcaps in the grocery stores about the same time as the Bible Belt primaries, and it was effective in costing Cruz, so it has worked before. This is just the first time I have seen both Parties use the same tactic to attack a candidate together.

I used to roll my eyes at "conspiracy theories",   but over the last two years I have noticed a pattern of behavior that leads me to believe the two parties are pretty much just sock puppets for the same influential people who more or less control American politics and policies. 


They are the "elite"  moneyed donors,  most of which live between Washington DC and Boston Mass.   They own the media,  and the media is a tool to influence the public to go along with whatever this "elite"  considers to be in it's best interests;   Usually to continue or accelerate spending from Washington DC. 


Yes,  I know it's a crazy theory that rich people who make money from government spending/policy might actually use their wealth and influence to keep that revenue stream coming at as high a level as possible. 


"Mercantilism"  sort of got out of hand. 

[Smokin Joe]

The problem is that they knocked him on his heels, and campaign was reactive from there. I'll grant he was financially hamstrung, but his counter-PR never got it's footing, and disappearing from the trail the last few weeks did him no favors. He ended up playing their game, instead of his.

Whether changing that would have made a difference in the election I don't know. The GOP turned out well, the Dems turnout was near unbelieveable.

It's hard to create a counter to something like that from scratch and get the word out without money. The GOP pulled theirs at the National Level. While he was sent donations from all over, a big chunk of war chest was snatched away when he needed it most.

As for the Dems, the media setup was make allegations, continue to make them and show the polls approaching, and finally with, the desired outcome. Any voter fraud will come out inside the point spread that way.

[DiogenesLamp]

I think it is so important to put that ass out on his (ass) that I will donate to the Democrat if he isn't primaried.

Last midterm I tried to talk anyone in Kentucky into voting for the Democrat.   My argument was that an enemy soldier was less of a threat than a traitor. 

[Smokin Joe]

No it's speculation on your part and nothing else. Strange was endorsed by a President who won the state easily a year ago. Trump was also accused of corruption and sexual impropriety, but they still voted for him overwhelmingly.  How would voters in this state be so easily swayed by the media in one instance but not the other?

Recall, if you will, that it was said that Trump could butcher babies in Times Square and not lose support.

[corbe]

With the GOP not only throwing Moore to the Wolves, but participating in that dog pack at the drop of a hat--lending credence to the attack on his Conservative credentials instead of fighting it, it is apparent they want nothing to do with Conservatives. I predict an exodus from the Party, one which has been a trickle but will grow until Conservatives are gone. It is up to Conservatives to create or build another Party and provide the people and alternatives to Liberal same ol' same ol' that we have seen since the TEA party movement rocked the elections.
Energizing that base and invigorating them with the right candidates is key, and must be done in spite of the MSM.

   Excellent analysis @Smokin Joe
   Thanks for sharing.

[Bigun]

With the GOP not only throwing Moore to the Wolves, but participating in that dog pack at the drop of a hat--lending credence to the attack on his Conservative credentials instead of fighting it, it is apparent they want nothing to do with Conservatives. I predict an exodus from the Party, one which has been a trickle but will grow until Conservatives are gone. It is up to Conservatives to create or build another Party and provide the people and alternatives to Liberal same ol' same ol' that we have seen since the TEA party movement rocked the elections.
Energizing that base and invigorating them with the right candidates is key, and must be done in spite of the MSM.

I may be the only one here who clearly recalls Mitch McConnell telling us plainly what he was going to do to candidates he didn't approve of but I most certainly recall him doing it.

[RetBobbyMI]

Conservatism has no future when those who claim to practice it rush to judgement to vilify their own.
It has become another meaningless term, stocked with the ranks of hypocrites and liars who push their personal issues at the expense of the Constitution and all it stands for..

Not a word more truly written! They aren't conservative if  they violate the constitutional rights of others by rushing their own personal judgment.

[Smokin Joe]

These acts reinforce the credibility of the accusations in the public's mind.    There is a certain amount of "herd mentality"  at work in any human population,    and many people simply said "well,  the accusations must be true,  or else the Republicans wouldn't have suspended their funding of this candidate.


The behavior of the National party sent the message to the public that the accusations had merit.

And McConnell led the way. Which is why I will do all I can to see him defeated.

[Bigun]

Not a word more truly written! They aren't conservative if  they violate the constitutional rights of others by rushing their own personal judgment.

@RetBobbyMI

Absolutely agree!  Unquestionably true!

[Smokin Joe]

It's all about style nowadays.  He probably could have pulled off a win if he had gotten out there and convinced voters that he was innocent and in charge. 

Most of the people on this site exempted, that's how voters pick candidates today.  By their style.  Remember all the "which candidate would you prefer to go have a beer with?" questions.

He had a tough row to hoe, no question, but he could have put up a better "style" fight.

It still takes money and the National GOP had cut him off at the knees, there. Not only did they give credence to the allegations by doing so, they rushed to cut off the financial support which would have ordinarily been available to the candidate

[kevindavis007]

"For those screaming 'WAPO hit job' you had a candidate:

Who when asked if he dated teenagers as a 30 yr old said 'not usually'

Warned of shariah courts being established in Michigan and Illinois

Had surrogates tell a pregnant host 'Doug Jones wants to abort your baby'

Said America was better during the era of slavery.... TO A BLACK MAN

Wanted to repeal the 13th and 14th amendments

Had his wife counter charges of insensitivity towards Jews with 'my lawyer is a Jew'

Spent the final day of the campaign arguing over whether people had to take the oath of office on a Christian bible, and if homosexuality should be criminalized.

But please, please tell me how he lost due to a media hit job."

[skeeter]

It still takes money and the National GOP had cut him off at the knees, there. Not only did they give credence to the allegations by doing so, they rushed to cut off the financial support which would have ordinarily been available to the candidate

@Sanguine
@Smokin Joe

In addition to the media smear campaign Moore was outspent by Jones 14 to 1. Members of his own party, including Alabama's other senator, campaigned against him.

It may be true that Moore could've ran a better campaign, but c'mon - no one overcomes disadvantages like that. But he damn near did.

[DiogenesLamp]

"For those screaming 'WAPO hit job' you had a candidate:

Who when asked if he dated teenagers as a 30 yr old said 'not usually'

Warned of shariah courts being established in Michigan and Illinois

Had surrogates tell a pregnant host 'Doug Jones wants to abort your baby'

Said America was better during the era of slavery.... TO A BLACK MAN

Wanted to repeal the 13th and 14th amendments

Had his wife counter charges of insensitivity towards Jews with 'my lawyer is a Jew'

Spent the final day of the campaign arguing over whether people had to take the oath of office on a Christian bible, and if homosexuality should be criminalized.

But please, please tell me how he lost due to a media hit job."

When I saw your name as the last poster in this thread,  I said to myself,   "I wonder what ill thought out absurdity shall have emerged from the keyboard of Kevin Davis?"   


And now I know!   


Yes,  it was pretty much the media hit job that did him in.   That other stuff would be given very little consideration in Alabama,  but the possibility of electing an accused child molester/rapist?   And his own party acting like the accusations were true? 

 *THAT*  was a bridge too far.   


But don't mind me,  just carry on with your foolish assumption  that you have a grasp of Alabama demographics. 

[RetBobbyMI]

Not withstanding anything about Moore himself, anyone in the on the GOP side of the Senate who complains or makes any statement that they can't get anything done because of the slim majority or the Dem obstructionists, ought to flamed face first into the podium.  They have no room to any complaint when they sent one of their own off to the wolves without any support.  If they had their super majority already, then I would understand. But in these times, shame on them. 

[Smokin Joe]

Not going on to say that he has fuzzy memories of all the other teen chicks he was "dating" in his 30's.

Roy's a shitbag. Most of the country thinks so. A hell of a lot of solid right wing voters in AL think so. Who are you trying to convince that he is such a great dude here? Yourself? Elections over. He will forever be known as the teen dating 3 time loser.

BTW I can't find any hint that dirty Roy filed anything but his fingernails.....

https://www.google.com/search?q=Roy+Moore+lawsuit&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b

Frankly, I don't give a damn what the "rest of the country" thinks, because with alarming consistency, they don't (think).

[Smokin Joe]

Politics is dirty, I forget who but some candidate was saying Carson was dropping out in Iowa and Rubio in Hawaii. There is a lot of this going on.

CNN

[Sanguine]

@Sanguine
@Smokin Joe

In addition to the media smear campaign Moore was outspent by Jones 14 to 1. Members of his own party, including Alabama's other senator, campaigned against him.

It may be true that Moore could've ran a better campaign, but c'mon - no one overcomes disadvantages like that. But he damn near did.

@skeeter, @Smokin Joe, yes, the lack of funding was a problem, but I was just commenting that you can't win without the right persona any more.  Look at Hillary.  All the money and support in the world and she came off as unlikeable. I don't think she'd share if you went to have a beer with her.

[DiogenesLamp]

Frankly, I don't give a damn what the "rest of the country" thinks, because with alarming consistency, they don't (think).

"Sheep, thought I."   

[bigheadfred]

I used to roll my eyes at "conspiracy theories",   but over the last two years I have noticed a pattern of behavior that leads me to believe the two parties are pretty much just sock puppets for the same influential people who more or less control American politics and policies. 


They are the "elite"  moneyed donors,  most of which live between Washington DC and Boston Mass.   They own the media,  and the media is a tool to influence the public to go along with whatever this "elite"  considers to be in it's best interests;   Usually to continue or accelerate spending from Washington DC. 


Yes,  I know it's a crazy theory that rich people who make money from government spending/policy might actually use their wealth and influence to keep that revenue stream coming at as high a level as possible. 


"Mercantilism"  sort of got out of hand.

uh huh

When they brought about the Federal Reserve the game was OVER.

And TENS OF MILLIONS of people have either been useful idiots, cannon fodder, or both, since.

[Hoodat]

"For those screaming 'WAPO hit job' you had a candidate:

Who when asked if he dated teenagers as a 30 yr old said 'not usually'

Warned of shariah courts being established in Michigan and Illinois

Had surrogates tell a pregnant host 'Doug Jones wants to abort your baby'

Said America was better during the era of slavery.... TO A BLACK MAN

Wanted to repeal the 13th and 14th amendments

Had his wife counter charges of insensitivity towards Jews with 'my lawyer is a Jew'

Spent the final day of the campaign arguing over whether people had to take the oath of office on a Christian bible, and if homosexuality should be criminalized.

But please, please tell me how he lost due to a media hit job."

This ^^^^^

[bigheadfred]

"Sheep, thought I."

Electric dreams.

[DiogenesLamp]

@skeeter, @Smokin Joe, yes, the lack of funding was a problem, but I was just commenting that you can't win without the right persona any more.  Look at Hillary.  All the money and support in the world and she came off as unlikeable. I don't think she'd share if you went to have a beer with her.

I'm thinking that accusations of child molesting and attempted rape would tend to make anyone viewed as "unlikeable." 

But beyond that,  I can name any number of office holders who I do not consider "likeable"  at all.   Don't they say "Politics is Hollywood for ugly people"?   

[DiogenesLamp]

uh huh

When they brought about the Federal Reserve the game was OVER.

And TENS OF MILLIONS of people have either been useful idiots, cannon fodder, or both, since.

I am coming around to this view more with each passing year.   The Federal Reserve makes a lot of these money games possible.