Leftover Discussion Thread: AL Special Election

[edpc]

Well, enjoy Senator Jones.   I'm sure he'll be a barrel-full of laughs.

I'll the beat down he receives in 2020 after a well vetted and funded candidate emerges between now and then.  Jones had two advantages - lower turnout and a cartoonish opponent.

[DiogenesLamp]

Perfect comeback?  No.  But I definitely would have made myself accessible to the voters and the press instead of hiding myself for months after botching a Sean Hannity interview.

I think the problem Moore faced when he went into that interview is that people had already characterized the dating of teenage women to be the equivalent of molesting a 14 year old.   I heard it in the opinions being expressed at the time.

The claims that he dated teenagers was lumped together with this accusation he molested a 14 year old girl.  People were making it sound as if you admitted to the one,  you were admitting to all of it.   

The problem was,  Moore did date teenage girls when he was in his thirties,  but in the media circus with which he was confronted,  it would have hurt him to say so.   

He just didn't think it through.   Yes,  it would have hurt him to admit to dating teenagers when he was in his thirties,  but he could have said,  "Yes,  I absolutely dated teenagers back then,  but I did not molest this one who is accusing me."   

Moore got a raw deal by the way the debate was framed when he went into that interview with Hannity.    He shouldn't have evaded or talked sideways,  he should have owned up to this unpopular activity,  and vehemently denied the rest.   


But who has such presence of mind?  Had I been accused of molesting someone,  I would have probably been shell shocked and unable to say anything sensible.   

It's easy to condemn when we don't have to go through such upheavals ourselves.   

[dfwgator]

I'll the beat down he receives in 2020 after a well vetted and funded candidate emerges between now and then.  Jones had two advantages - lower turnout and a cartoonish opponent.

Ooooh so maybe then then the Rats will only have 60 Senators.

[corbe]

     @DiogenesLamp I truly respect your opinion on most all things here, but even you must admit this 'lessor of two evils' $hit is way out of hand.
   It's way past time to consider a 'robust' third party option, if the opportunity arises in 2020.

[EasyAce]

The same thing they wrote about the contest between Roscoe Conkling and Charles Wheaton in the 1872 NY Senate battle......not a damn thing because no one will care.

Unless you figure that Conkling was the last known individual to reject a nomination to the Supreme
Court---Ulysses Grant wanted Conkling to become Chief Justice, after Conkling defeated Wheaton and won
re-election to the Senate (it was Conkling's first re-election try), but Conkling turned him down, having
just been sworn back into the Senate and preferring to stay there.

Or, that---what do you know---Conkling himself was accused of philandering, with the wife of fellow Senator
and former Rhode Island governor William Sprague IV; Sprague was said to have confronted Conkling with
a shotgun over it.

[edpc]

I'm getting the impression you didn't like him before the accusations,  and I am utterly shocked,  shocked I tell you!  That someone who didn't like him anyways,  is more prone to mocking him.

Actually, I had barely heard of him.  I recalled the Ten Commandments ordeal, but never really gave it much thought.  After he beat Strange in the primary, I figured he must really be something, because Strange had never presented himself as an opponent of Trump's agenda through his votes.

Turned out to be something, alright.

[edpc]

Ooooh so maybe then then the Rats will only have 60 Senators.

Then, 'ooooh,' that would be the case with or without Moore.  If they lose 11 Senate seats between now and 2020, it's not going to be over Roy.

[DiogenesLamp]

I hear ya brother. Talking poorly about folks partaking in a lynching is a bit too much for the civilized Senate. They should have killed the son of a bitch......right?

You glossed right over that part where Sumner accused Butler of having sex with a mistress.  Specifically a black mistress.     


Even Stephen Douglas said "that D@mned fool is going to get himself killed" when Sumner was making that speech,  which incidentally went on for two days,   and during which he mocked Butler's chivalry and family among the other things he said. 


But yeah,  you go ahead and try to make it sound like Sumner was doing something virtuous when he was smearing that old man as a reprobate. 

[DiogenesLamp]

     @DiogenesLamp I truly respect your opinion on most all things here, but even you must admit this 'lessor of two evils' $hit is way out of hand.
   It's way past time to consider a 'robust' third party option, if the opportunity arises in 2020.

Would love a third party.   Wasn't the Tea Party supposed to turn into one?   What happened to it?  Was it not the Washington Establishment and big money donors who like things as they are, the ones who took a hand in wrecking it?   

[dfwgator]

Would love a third party.   Wasn't the Tea Party supposed to turn into one?   What happened to it?  Was it not the Washington Establishment and big money donors who like things as they are, the ones who took a hand in wrecking it?

A third party gets us a Democratic Party Dictatorship.  And believe me, they will setup a Dictatorship if they get the chance to.

[DiogenesLamp]

Actually, I had barely heard of him.  I recalled the Ten Commandments ordeal, but never really gave it much thought.  After he beat Strange in the primary, I figured he must really be something, because Strange had never presented himself as an opponent of Trump's agenda through his votes.

Turned out to be something, alright.

I heard quite a lot about Luther Strange from a lot of people who claimed to be from Alabama. 


People think Strange would have been the better candidate,   so let me tell you what would have came out about Strange.   


He would have been accused of colluding with the Governor of Alabama to shut down an investigation into illegal activities involving the Governor.   It was widely believed that he was appointed by the Governor to the open Senate seat as a quid pro quo to get him to stop the investigation. 


Strange would have been accused of corruption,  six ways to Sunday.   At least that is the story I got from several people who claim to know Alabama politics.   


The media would have amplified this story and all the Usual suspects of Republicans would have ran away from him,  and wrote checks to Doug Jones.


https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2017-02-09/luther-strange-senate-appointment-dismays-some-alabama-republicans

[DiogenesLamp]

Then, 'ooooh,' that would be the case with or without Moore.  If they lose 11 Senate seats between now and 2020, it's not going to be over Roy.

It just might be.   So far as i'm concerned,  they are a bunch of backstabbing cowards,   and perhaps enough of the electorate feels the same way as I do,  sufficient that it can swing an election. 


Elections are often won on thin margins in the middle.   A small swing can sometimes totally change the outcome.   

[DiogenesLamp]

A third party gets us a Democratic Party Dictatorship.  And believe me, they will setup a Dictatorship if they get the chance to.

They came D@mn close to it with Obama.   

[dfwgator]

They came D@mn close to it with Obama.

And the Demographics are only getting more in their favor with each passing day.

[Frank Cannon]

But yeah,  you go ahead and try to make it sound like Sumner was doing something virtuous when he was smearing that old man as a reprobate.

LOL. He was a reprobate. He fully supported slavery and argued that if Kansas was let into the union as a free state, peoples property values would decline. The property he spoke of was people. He also had an issue with whites having sex with animals. The animals he was speaking of were, yup, you guessed it....people.

Brooks should have had a lit pipe bomb shoved up his ass by a few Mandingo looking fellows and paraded around the streets of DC until his candle went off. 

[Frank Cannon]

Unless you figure that Conkling was the last known individual to reject a nomination to the Supreme
Court---Ulysses Grant wanted Conkling to become Chief Justice, after Conkling defeated Wheaton and won
re-election to the Senate (it was Conkling's first re-election try), but Conkling turned him down, having
just been sworn back into the Senate and preferring to stay there.

Or, that---what do you know---Conkling himself was accused of philandering, with the wife of fellow Senator
and former Rhode Island governor William Sprague IV; Sprague was said to have confronted Conkling with
a shotgun over it.

LOL. Yeah. That's a hot button topic of discussion........nowhere.

[DiogenesLamp]

LOL. He was a reprobate. He fully supported slavery and argued that if Kansas was let into the union as a free state, peoples property values would decline. The property he spoke of was people. He also had an issue with whites having sex with animals. The animals he was speaking of were, yup, you guessed it....people.

Here we go again with forcing everything to be looked at through the modern view of slavery instead of the zeitgeist that existed at the time.   

You may have missed it,   but Slavery was a normal part of the USA back in those days,  as it had been for four score and seven years,  and it would have continued in the Union indefinitely had the South remained in the Union.   (Well,  at least until 1896.) 


People can have a disagreement on some issue of public policy without being derogatory to a specific individual who holds an opposite opinion.   It was the nasty insults and mockery leveled at Butler for which Sumner was beaten. 

You are being disingenuous when you are attempt to paint this as a larger issue than deliberately insulting someone in a manner that was considered "fighting words"  at the time. 

Brooks should have had a lit pipe bomb shoved up his ass by a few Mandingo looking fellows and paraded around the streets of DC until his candle went off.

Well that didn't happen,   but Sumner did get a very deserved beating, though I think Brooks went too far.   

[Smokin Joe]

Nope.  Which means all the caterwauling about his being a child molester was just a bunch of bullshit, and the people on our side who kept repeating it just played into the enemies' hands.

They didn't play into the enemy's hands, they joined them. >SPIT!<

[Smokin Joe]

I think the problem Moore faced when he went into that interview is that people had already characterized the dating of teenage women to be the equivalent of molesting a 14 year old.   I heard it in the opinions being expressed at the time.

The claims that he dated teenagers was lumped together with this accusation he molested a 14 year old girl.  People were making it sound as if you admitted to the one,  you were admitting to all of it.   

The problem was,  Moore did date teenage girls when he was in his thirties,  but in the media circus with which he was confronted,  it would have hurt him to say so.   

He just didn't think it through.   Yes,  it would have hurt him to admit to dating teenagers when he was in his thirties,  but he could have said,  "Yes,  I absolutely dated teenagers back then,  but I did not molest this one who is accusing me."   

Moore got a raw deal by the way the debate was framed when he went into that interview with Hannity.    He shouldn't have evaded or talked sideways,  he should have owned up to this unpopular activity,  and vehemently denied the rest.   


But who has such presence of mind?  Had I been accused of molesting someone,  I would have probably been shell shocked and unable to say anything sensible.   

It's easy to condemn when we don't have to go through such upheavals ourselves.

Hannity went on the attack, and I don't think Moore expected such hostility. Hillary never got nailed like Hannity went after Moore, not in any interview. Hannity is a GOPe tool.

[Smokin Joe]

About 3 campaign appearances in the last 2 weeks, whatever it was by Moore, not many.

And people ragged about McConnell, but as said, a number of Senators bailed on him.

Mitch led the charge almost as soon as the allegations surfaced--which tells me he was happy to. He wanted Strange, and thought somehow attacking Moore would give him that.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

GOP better brace for losing Congress in 2018 I think. This isn't good.

[dfwgator]

GOP better brace for losing Congress in 2018 I think. This isn't good.

Mitch and Ryan will be happy.  All the perks....None of the responsibility.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Mitch and Ryan will be happy.  All the perks....None of the responsibility.

There's a lot of blame to go around, frankly. Don't pin it all on the GOPe boogeyman.

[Sighlass]

Moore makes it kind of easy.

@edpc , you and the rest of the RINOs here joined democrats openly trashing Roy. While congress and democrats outspent something in the neighborhood of 12 to 1 against him.  Posters here spreading baseless horrible rumors against him for how many months now with no proof whatsoever? Truth, who needs that? I get the feeling the site manager here got pinged to post article after article that did nothing but spread the lies after someone got tired of doing it. There was few in Roy's corner except oddly enough Breitbart (who turned on Cruz) and a few outlier online news sites and the dyehard of us in Alabama. Trump hid from supporting Moore because his wee feelings got hurt over Strange's loss. Even Cruz disappointed. The Senate leadership never did help, they certainly didn't want Moore's views contrary to their own.

Mo Brooks I was actually proud of... (he was the one I said I could of voted for if Moore lost). There was so much that could of been pointed out in Moore's defense that just got laughed at here at TBR. I would try to point out things like how the black lady police officer's FB page showed she was radical. No response from most here or a flimpant remark discarding what I said and carefully researched. Nobody cared, Roy was just a Christian nut. Make a few more jokes at his expense.

What it shows me is that if the GOP has such disdain for Christian voters it hurts. There is no need for me to vote R anymore. Why vote, they are 99% of the time just going to mock us. I am actually glad I didn't vote for McCain or Romney. They were two of the chief mockers of Moore. Get spit at enough, you learn to stop empowering the phlegm flingers.

Let the GOP go on without me, they no longer care for my vote. They and you will get the world you so deserve, but it will not be one worth envisioning.

[Weird Tolkienish Figure]

Bryan Behar‏Verified account
@bryanbehar
 5h5 hours ago
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All Steve Bannon does is lose winnable elections and get fired from jobs. Can we finally ditch the myth of him as some sage wizard?