Author Topic: Leftover Discussion Thread: AL Special Election  (Read 100676 times)

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Offline edpc

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Re: Leftover Discussion Thread: AL Special Election
« Reply #425 on: December 13, 2017, 05:41:59 am »
Well, enjoy Senator Jones.   I'm sure he'll be a barrel-full of laughs.

I'll the beat down he receives in 2020 after a well vetted and funded candidate emerges between now and then.  Jones had two advantages - lower turnout and a cartoonish opponent.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2017, 05:42:29 am by edpc »
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Offline DiogenesLamp

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Re: Leftover Discussion Thread: AL Special Election
« Reply #426 on: December 13, 2017, 05:43:21 am »
Perfect comeback?  No.  But I definitely would have made myself accessible to the voters and the press instead of hiding myself for months after botching a Sean Hannity interview.


I think the problem Moore faced when he went into that interview is that people had already characterized the dating of teenage women to be the equivalent of molesting a 14 year old.   I heard it in the opinions being expressed at the time.

The claims that he dated teenagers was lumped together with this accusation he molested a 14 year old girl.  People were making it sound as if you admitted to the one,  you were admitting to all of it.   

The problem was,  Moore did date teenage girls when he was in his thirties,  but in the media circus with which he was confronted,  it would have hurt him to say so.   

He just didn't think it through.   Yes,  it would have hurt him to admit to dating teenagers when he was in his thirties,  but he could have said,  "Yes,  I absolutely dated teenagers back then,  but I did not molest this one who is accusing me."   

Moore got a raw deal by the way the debate was framed when he went into that interview with Hannity.    He shouldn't have evaded or talked sideways,  he should have owned up to this unpopular activity,  and vehemently denied the rest.   


But who has such presence of mind?  Had I been accused of molesting someone,  I would have probably been shell shocked and unable to say anything sensible.   

It's easy to condemn when we don't have to go through such upheavals ourselves.   
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Offline dfwgator

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Re: Leftover Discussion Thread: AL Special Election
« Reply #427 on: December 13, 2017, 05:45:16 am »
I'll the beat down he receives in 2020 after a well vetted and funded candidate emerges between now and then.  Jones had two advantages - lower turnout and a cartoonish opponent.

Ooooh so maybe then then the Rats will only have 60 Senators.

Online corbe

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Re: Leftover Discussion Thread: AL Special Election
« Reply #428 on: December 13, 2017, 05:46:17 am »
     @DiogenesLamp I truly respect your opinion on most all things here, but even you must admit this 'lessor of two evils' $hit is way out of hand.
   It's way past time to consider a 'robust' third party option, if the opportunity arises in 2020.
No government in the 12,000 years of modern mankind history has led its people into anything but the history books with a simple lesson, don't let this happen to you.

Offline EasyAce

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Re: Leftover Discussion Thread: AL Special Election
« Reply #429 on: December 13, 2017, 05:46:38 am »
The same thing they wrote about the contest between Roscoe Conkling and Charles Wheaton in the 1872 NY Senate battle......not a damn thing because no one will care.
Unless you figure that Conkling was the last known individual to reject a nomination to the Supreme
Court---Ulysses Grant wanted Conkling to become Chief Justice, after Conkling defeated Wheaton and won
re-election to the Senate (it was Conkling's first re-election try), but Conkling turned him down, having
just been sworn back into the Senate and preferring to stay there.

Or, that---what do you know---Conkling himself was accused of philandering, with the wife of fellow Senator
and former Rhode Island governor William Sprague IV; Sprague was said to have confronted Conkling with
a shotgun over it.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2017, 05:49:03 am by EasyAce »


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Offline edpc

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Re: Leftover Discussion Thread: AL Special Election
« Reply #430 on: December 13, 2017, 05:49:56 am »
I'm getting the impression you didn't like him before the accusations,  and I am utterly shocked,  shocked I tell you!  That someone who didn't like him anyways,  is more prone to mocking him.


Actually, I had barely heard of him.  I recalled the Ten Commandments ordeal, but never really gave it much thought.  After he beat Strange in the primary, I figured he must really be something, because Strange had never presented himself as an opponent of Trump's agenda through his votes.

Turned out to be something, alright.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2017, 05:50:23 am by edpc »
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Offline edpc

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Re: Leftover Discussion Thread: AL Special Election
« Reply #431 on: December 13, 2017, 05:52:24 am »
Ooooh so maybe then then the Rats will only have 60 Senators.

Then, 'ooooh,' that would be the case with or without Moore.  If they lose 11 Senate seats between now and 2020, it's not going to be over Roy.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2017, 05:56:53 am by edpc »
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Offline DiogenesLamp

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Re: Leftover Discussion Thread: AL Special Election
« Reply #432 on: December 13, 2017, 05:57:28 am »
I hear ya brother. Talking poorly about folks partaking in a lynching is a bit too much for the civilized Senate. They should have killed the son of a bitch......right?


You glossed right over that part where Sumner accused Butler of having sex with a mistress.  Specifically a black mistress.     


Even Stephen Douglas said "that D@mned fool is going to get himself killed" when Sumner was making that speech,  which incidentally went on for two days,   and during which he mocked Butler's chivalry and family among the other things he said. 


But yeah,  you go ahead and try to make it sound like Sumner was doing something virtuous when he was smearing that old man as a reprobate. 


‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
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Offline DiogenesLamp

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Re: Leftover Discussion Thread: AL Special Election
« Reply #433 on: December 13, 2017, 06:01:01 am »
     @DiogenesLamp I truly respect your opinion on most all things here, but even you must admit this 'lessor of two evils' $hit is way out of hand.
   It's way past time to consider a 'robust' third party option, if the opportunity arises in 2020.


Would love a third party.   Wasn't the Tea Party supposed to turn into one?   What happened to it?  Was it not the Washington Establishment and big money donors who like things as they are, the ones who took a hand in wrecking it?   
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

Offline dfwgator

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Re: Leftover Discussion Thread: AL Special Election
« Reply #434 on: December 13, 2017, 06:06:21 am »

Would love a third party.   Wasn't the Tea Party supposed to turn into one?   What happened to it?  Was it not the Washington Establishment and big money donors who like things as they are, the ones who took a hand in wrecking it?

A third party gets us a Democratic Party Dictatorship.  And believe me, they will setup a Dictatorship if they get the chance to.

Offline DiogenesLamp

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Re: Leftover Discussion Thread: AL Special Election
« Reply #435 on: December 13, 2017, 06:07:06 am »

Actually, I had barely heard of him.  I recalled the Ten Commandments ordeal, but never really gave it much thought.  After he beat Strange in the primary, I figured he must really be something, because Strange had never presented himself as an opponent of Trump's agenda through his votes.

Turned out to be something, alright.


I heard quite a lot about Luther Strange from a lot of people who claimed to be from Alabama. 


People think Strange would have been the better candidate,   so let me tell you what would have came out about Strange.   


He would have been accused of colluding with the Governor of Alabama to shut down an investigation into illegal activities involving the Governor.   It was widely believed that he was appointed by the Governor to the open Senate seat as a quid pro quo to get him to stop the investigation. 


Strange would have been accused of corruption,  six ways to Sunday.   At least that is the story I got from several people who claim to know Alabama politics.   


The media would have amplified this story and all the Usual suspects of Republicans would have ran away from him,  and wrote checks to Doug Jones.


https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2017-02-09/luther-strange-senate-appointment-dismays-some-alabama-republicans
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
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Offline DiogenesLamp

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Re: Leftover Discussion Thread: AL Special Election
« Reply #436 on: December 13, 2017, 06:09:15 am »
Then, 'ooooh,' that would be the case with or without Moore.  If they lose 11 Senate seats between now and 2020, it's not going to be over Roy.


It just might be.   So far as i'm concerned,  they are a bunch of backstabbing cowards,   and perhaps enough of the electorate feels the same way as I do,  sufficient that it can swing an election. 


Elections are often won on thin margins in the middle.   A small swing can sometimes totally change the outcome.   
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

Offline DiogenesLamp

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Re: Leftover Discussion Thread: AL Special Election
« Reply #437 on: December 13, 2017, 06:10:22 am »
A third party gets us a Democratic Party Dictatorship.  And believe me, they will setup a Dictatorship if they get the chance to.


They came D@mn close to it with Obama.   
‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
— Lord Melbourne —

Offline dfwgator

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Re: Leftover Discussion Thread: AL Special Election
« Reply #438 on: December 13, 2017, 06:18:49 am »

They came D@mn close to it with Obama.

And the Demographics are only getting more in their favor with each passing day.

Offline Frank Cannon

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Re: Leftover Discussion Thread: AL Special Election
« Reply #439 on: December 13, 2017, 06:19:58 am »


But yeah,  you go ahead and try to make it sound like Sumner was doing something virtuous when he was smearing that old man as a reprobate.

LOL. He was a reprobate. He fully supported slavery and argued that if Kansas was let into the union as a free state, peoples property values would decline. The property he spoke of was people. He also had an issue with whites having sex with animals. The animals he was speaking of were, yup, you guessed it....people.

Brooks should have had a lit pipe bomb shoved up his ass by a few Mandingo looking fellows and paraded around the streets of DC until his candle went off. 

Offline Frank Cannon

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Re: Leftover Discussion Thread: AL Special Election
« Reply #440 on: December 13, 2017, 06:23:18 am »
Unless you figure that Conkling was the last known individual to reject a nomination to the Supreme
Court---Ulysses Grant wanted Conkling to become Chief Justice, after Conkling defeated Wheaton and won
re-election to the Senate (it was Conkling's first re-election try), but Conkling turned him down, having
just been sworn back into the Senate and preferring to stay there.

Or, that---what do you know---Conkling himself was accused of philandering, with the wife of fellow Senator
and former Rhode Island governor William Sprague IV; Sprague was said to have confronted Conkling with
a shotgun over it.

LOL. Yeah. That's a hot button topic of discussion........nowhere.

Offline DiogenesLamp

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Re: Leftover Discussion Thread: AL Special Election
« Reply #441 on: December 13, 2017, 06:31:14 am »
LOL. He was a reprobate. He fully supported slavery and argued that if Kansas was let into the union as a free state, peoples property values would decline. The property he spoke of was people. He also had an issue with whites having sex with animals. The animals he was speaking of were, yup, you guessed it....people.


Here we go again with forcing everything to be looked at through the modern view of slavery instead of the zeitgeist that existed at the time.   

You may have missed it,   but Slavery was a normal part of the USA back in those days,  as it had been for four score and seven years,  and it would have continued in the Union indefinitely had the South remained in the Union.   (Well,  at least until 1896.) 


People can have a disagreement on some issue of public policy without being derogatory to a specific individual who holds an opposite opinion.   It was the nasty insults and mockery leveled at Butler for which Sumner was beaten. 

You are being disingenuous when you are attempt to paint this as a larger issue than deliberately insulting someone in a manner that was considered "fighting words"  at the time. 






Brooks should have had a lit pipe bomb shoved up his ass by a few Mandingo looking fellows and paraded around the streets of DC until his candle went off.


Well that didn't happen,   but Sumner did get a very deserved beating, though I think Brooks went too far.   

‘What all the wise men promised has not happened, and what all the damned fools said would happen has come to pass.’
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Leftover Discussion Thread: AL Special Election
« Reply #442 on: December 13, 2017, 06:49:56 am »
Nope.  Which means all the caterwauling about his being a child molester was just a bunch of bullshit, and the people on our side who kept repeating it just played into the enemies' hands.
They didn't play into the enemy's hands, they joined them. >SPIT!<
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Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Leftover Discussion Thread: AL Special Election
« Reply #443 on: December 13, 2017, 06:55:34 am »

I think the problem Moore faced when he went into that interview is that people had already characterized the dating of teenage women to be the equivalent of molesting a 14 year old.   I heard it in the opinions being expressed at the time.

The claims that he dated teenagers was lumped together with this accusation he molested a 14 year old girl.  People were making it sound as if you admitted to the one,  you were admitting to all of it.   

The problem was,  Moore did date teenage girls when he was in his thirties,  but in the media circus with which he was confronted,  it would have hurt him to say so.   

He just didn't think it through.   Yes,  it would have hurt him to admit to dating teenagers when he was in his thirties,  but he could have said,  "Yes,  I absolutely dated teenagers back then,  but I did not molest this one who is accusing me."   

Moore got a raw deal by the way the debate was framed when he went into that interview with Hannity.    He shouldn't have evaded or talked sideways,  he should have owned up to this unpopular activity,  and vehemently denied the rest.   


But who has such presence of mind?  Had I been accused of molesting someone,  I would have probably been shell shocked and unable to say anything sensible.   

It's easy to condemn when we don't have to go through such upheavals ourselves.
Hannity went on the attack, and I don't think Moore expected such hostility. Hillary never got nailed like Hannity went after Moore, not in any interview. Hannity is a GOPe tool.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Leftover Discussion Thread: AL Special Election
« Reply #444 on: December 13, 2017, 06:57:39 am »
About 3 campaign appearances in the last 2 weeks, whatever it was by Moore, not many.

And people ragged about McConnell, but as said, a number of Senators bailed on him.
Mitch led the charge almost as soon as the allegations surfaced--which tells me he was happy to. He wanted Strange, and thought somehow attacking Moore would give him that.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2017, 06:58:30 am by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Online Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: Leftover Discussion Thread: AL Special Election
« Reply #445 on: December 13, 2017, 07:34:02 am »
GOP better brace for losing Congress in 2018 I think. This isn't good.

Offline dfwgator

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Re: Leftover Discussion Thread: AL Special Election
« Reply #446 on: December 13, 2017, 07:41:50 am »
GOP better brace for losing Congress in 2018 I think. This isn't good.

Mitch and Ryan will be happy.  All the perks....None of the responsibility.

Online Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: Leftover Discussion Thread: AL Special Election
« Reply #447 on: December 13, 2017, 07:43:39 am »
Mitch and Ryan will be happy.  All the perks....None of the responsibility.

There's a lot of blame to go around, frankly. Don't pin it all on the GOPe boogeyman.

Offline Sighlass

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Re: Leftover Discussion Thread: AL Special Election
« Reply #448 on: December 13, 2017, 08:31:29 am »
Moore makes it kind of easy.

@edpc , you and the rest of the RINOs here joined democrats openly trashing Roy. While congress and democrats outspent something in the neighborhood of 12 to 1 against him.  Posters here spreading baseless horrible rumors against him for how many months now with no proof whatsoever? Truth, who needs that? I get the feeling the site manager here got pinged to post article after article that did nothing but spread the lies after someone got tired of doing it. There was few in Roy's corner except oddly enough Breitbart (who turned on Cruz) and a few outlier online news sites and the dyehard of us in Alabama. Trump hid from supporting Moore because his wee feelings got hurt over Strange's loss. Even Cruz disappointed. The Senate leadership never did help, they certainly didn't want Moore's views contrary to their own.

Mo Brooks I was actually proud of... (he was the one I said I could of voted for if Moore lost). There was so much that could of been pointed out in Moore's defense that just got laughed at here at TBR. I would try to point out things like how the black lady police officer's FB page showed she was radical. No response from most here or a flimpant remark discarding what I said and carefully researched. Nobody cared, Roy was just a Christian nut. Make a few more jokes at his expense.

What it shows me is that if the GOP has such disdain for Christian voters it hurts. There is no need for me to vote R anymore. Why vote, they are 99% of the time just going to mock us. I am actually glad I didn't vote for McCain or Romney. They were two of the chief mockers of Moore. Get spit at enough, you learn to stop empowering the phlegm flingers.

Let the GOP go on without me, they no longer care for my vote. They and you will get the world you so deserve, but it will not be one worth envisioning.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2017, 08:39:54 am by Sighlass »
Exodus 18:21 Furthermore, you shall select out of all the people able men who fear God, men of truth, those who hate dishonest gain; and you shall place these over them as leaders over ....

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Re: Leftover Discussion Thread: AL Special Election
« Reply #449 on: December 13, 2017, 08:59:47 am »
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All Steve Bannon does is lose winnable elections and get fired from jobs. Can we finally ditch the myth of him as some sage wizard?