New Study Shows Gay Men Have Variation Of DNA Over Straight men

[INVAR]

God makes some of us gay just as He makes most of us straight.  Our free will permits us to choose to be monogamous and faithful, or promiscuous and faithless.   

But some Christians will condemn the homosexual even if he/she chooses the life of monogamy and faithfulness.   That's, well, abominable.

God 'makes' some of us thieves, robbers, rapists and murderers.  Our free will permits us to choose to act on those impulses and behaviors, or restrain ourselves from acting on them because morality teaches that such acts are evil.

But some Christians condemn thievery, robbery, rape and murder, even if the criminal chooses a life of only preying on approved constituencies. That's, well, abominable - as are those who promote deviant behaviors as wholesome, natural and righteous.

[Suppressed]

Do we have anybody with degrees in Biology?

Do we have anybody that has studied DNA, genetics, from any standpoint?

--genealogy
--medical research and treatments
--paternity
--national/regional origins
--criminology
--other

Anybody know what Haplogroups and Haplotypes are? SNPs?
Y-DNA and mt-DNA and autosomal DNA. Epigenetics?

@truth_seeker
Why speak from knowledge when you can pontificate from ignorance?

[Suppressed]

Funny how 1.7% of the population expect to be called normal and to have everyone dance to their tune.

@driftdiver

Red hair might not be normative and only about 1.7% of the population, but it's perfectly normal.  What do you have against redheads forcing us to accept them as they are without dying their hair? 

[Suppressed]

Not really.  Some do display some "homosexual" behaviors, but not consistently.  For instance, cows may mount each other, but it appears to be an attempt to stimulate ovulation in preparation for breeding.

@Sanguine

Actually, some animals form homosexual pair bonds.  Something like a quarter of male black swans form homosexual pair bonds, IIRC. 

[Suppressed]

Several in the family are gay yet they make up about 1% of the population. Guess you live in the Castro district.

@Frank Cannon @Jazzhead


Or, perhaps, there's a genetic link, so it would more likely be concentrated in a family.

That evidence can point either way.

 

[Suppressed]

@Jazzhead
God made us male and female.  Then he told us that sex is between husband and wife in holy matrimony.   Anything outside of that is outside of Gods will.   Why would he "make" us something that is against his will?

@driftdiver

Leviticus 21:16-23
King James Version (KJV):

¹⁶ And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,

¹⁷ Speak unto Aaron, saying, Whosoever he be of thy seed in their generations that hath any blemish, let him not approach to offer the bread of his God.

¹⁸ For whatsoever man he be that hath a blemish, he shall not approach: a blind man, or a lame, or he that hath a flat nose, or any thing superfluous,

¹⁹ Or a man that is brokenfooted, or brokenhanded,

²⁰ Or crookbackt, or a dwarf, or that hath a blemish in his eye, or be scurvy, or scabbed, or hath his stones broken;

²¹ No man that hath a blemish of the seed of Aaron the priest shall come nigh to offer the offerings of the Lord made by fire: he hath a blemish; he shall not come nigh to offer the bread of his God.

²² He shall eat the bread of his God, both of the most holy, and of the holy.

²³ Only he shall not go in unto the vail, nor come nigh unto the altar, because he hath a blemish; that he profane not my sanctuaries: for I the Lord do sanctify them.

Are you denying that He made these "blemished" ones?  If they would "profane" His place, are they of His Will?

If so, why couldn't He create others with "blemishes" that aren't so outward, but are still as accepted as a lame person?

[Frank Cannon]

@Frank Cannon @Jazzhead


Or, perhaps, there's a genetic link, so it would more likely be concentrated in a family.

That evidence can point either way.

Or they were raised gay.

[INVAR]

Are you denying that He made these "blemished" ones?  If they would "profane" His place, are they of His Will?

If so, why couldn't He create others with "blemishes" that aren't so outward, but are still as accepted as a lame person?

You shall not bow down to them or serve them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, - Deuteronomy 5:9

The LORD is slow to anger and abundant in lovingkindness, forgiving iniquity and transgression; but He will by no means clear the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generations.' - Numbers 14:18

Genetic proclivities to certain negative behaviors likely has its roots in the above as well as deformities.  Sin touches everything and has consequences that remain even if the individual repents and is forgiven.

[Sanguine]

@driftdiver, I accept that on this topic you are not able to accept other viewpoints.  That's fine, as long as we all understand that.

[truth_seeker]

@truth_seeker
Why speak from knowledge when you can pontificate from ignorance?

I was initially brought to focus on DNA, by my sister. They wanted a male to take the tests. Y-DNA is males only.

So I do tests, and next she too, wants testing.

So fairly recently we both looked at the subject. She tested with Ancestry, and they do "cousin matching."

The matched people were quickly confirmed to be matches. Empirical results confirming the science.

We were brought up with a grandmother who was a biology professor in the 1920s and a mother with a chemistry degree.

BTW the DNA test for Y-DNA confirms exactly the paper version of our family tree for father line. (Haplogroup I1 in central Sweden) Empirical results confirming science.

Finally those females with science training, also taught us that religion and science were NOT mutually exclusive.

[driftdiver]

@driftdiver, I accept that on this topic you are not able to accept other viewpoints.  That's fine, as long as we all understand that.

@Sanguine

You all act like you have some newly invented view.  You don't, its been tried time after time throughout history.  It doesnt work and it spreads misery.

All people deserve respect and love, but when they are doing wrong it is not proper to call it good.

[Sanguine]

@Sanguine

You all act like you have some newly invented view.  You don't, its been tried time after time throughout history.  It doesnt work and it spreads misery.

All people deserve respect and love, but when they are doing wrong it is not proper to call it good.

I didn't say a thing about wrong, except that I accept God's ruling on this matter, which is that the action itself is wrong.  I was talking about whether homosexuality was a mere choice or had some genetic/congenital properties.  You, on the other hand, seem to think it's strictly a choice.  I choose to look at it a bit more charitably. 

[driftdiver]

I didn't say a thing about wrong, except that I accept God's ruling on this matter, which is that the action itself is wrong.  I was talking about whether homosexuality was a mere choice or had some genetic/congenital properties.  You, on the other hand, seem to think it's strictly a choice.  I choose to look at it a bit more charitably.

@Sanguine
Nobody wants to accept responsibility for their actions.   Its far easier to blame a gene then to admit that that you've allowed lust, fear, or anger to complicate your life.  Are there probably some exceptions, sure, but far fewer then people here think. If it were as simple as 2 genes it would have been proven long ago.

[mirraflake]

@Sanguine

You all act like you have some newly invented view.  You don't, its been tried time after time throughout history.  It doesnt work and it spreads misery.

All people deserve respect and love, but when they are doing wrong it is not proper to call it good.

For much of human history people we would classify today as severely mentally ill  were killed as demons or witches not that long ago in human history

@driftdiver
@Sanguine

[aligncare]

Where does the gay affect exhibited by some homosexuals come from? Is that learned too? Do homosexual men “act gay” because it’s expected and they choose it? Or could that gay affectation be partly an expression of the gay genome?

[driftdiver]

For much of human history people we would classify today as mentally ill  were killed as demons or witches..

@driftdiver
@Sanguine

yes of course, the knowledge gained in the last 200 years totally outweighs all knowledge gained in the prior milleniums.   Never mind you still cant prove your 'science' using real science.

[musiclady]

Total BS.

@musiclady

Just so you know, because of my past experience with your claim that every male is a pervert and the depth of ugliness you went to to belittle good men, I really don't care what you think about anything that has to do with morality.

So don't bother pinging me again.

I won't respond.

@mirraflake

[Sanguine]

@Sanguine
Nobody wants to accept responsibility for their actions.   Its far easier to blame a gene then to admit that that you've allowed lust, fear, or anger to complicate your life.  Are there probably some exceptions, sure, but far fewer then people here think. If it were as simple as 2 genes it would have been proven long ago.

DNA research is in its infancy.  We are still learning what you have already dismissed.

[truth_seeker]

DNA research is in its infancy.  We are still learning what you have already dismissed.

Correct DNA research is very new. Around 200 years ago medical science still believed "bleeding" was good treatment. 150 years ago diphtheria was treated by gargling kerosene.

The fact we have only early results about DNA is NOT evidence it is flawed science.

Epigenetics is very early and holds great promise in a number of fields.

Not claiming to be an expert, but I doubt the Bible said man would one day fly.

[Restored]

Here's another problem with the "born gay" theory. It isn't logical.

If a man announces he is gay, he was born gay.
If he later announces he isn't gay, he wasn't born gay.
If he later announces he is indeed gay, he was born gay.
If he subsequently announces he isn't gay, he wasn't born gay.

So was he born gay or not? The answer is not based on scientific evidence but solely on HIS opinion at a given time.

[Cripplecreek]

freeper?

Freepers, the new turd burglars for the new era.

[mirraflake]

Here's another problem with the "born gay" theory. It isn't logical.

If a man announces he is gay, he was born gay.
If he later announces he isn't gay, he wasn't born gay.
If he later announces he is indeed gay, he was born gay.
If he subsequently announces he isn't gay, he wasn't born gay.

So was he born gay or not? The answer is not based on scientific evidence but solely on HIS opinion at a given time.

Show a link to a gay man who actually said this.

@Restored

[mirraflake]

Just so you know, because of my past experience with your claim that every male is a pervert and the depth of ugliness you went to to belittle good men, I really don't care what you think about anything that has to do with morality.

So don't bother pinging me again.

I won't respond.

I never said all men. I said a large number of men say crude things with close male friends regarding women they don't do in front of their wives especially when they a few beers in them.

I also said just because a man claims or tries to portray Godliness does not mean he he does the same in private. I then  linked the Christian survey of Christian males who close to 70% said they view porn on a regular basis-these stats were from a pro Christina group. The ones who claim to not to view porn the loudest are the ones wacking off every night to porn.

..and why do you keep bringing up this old argument every chance you can??  Can't you let it go..jeesh.

@musiclady

whoops not supposed to ping music lady.

[Restored]

Show a link to a gay man who actually said this.

@Restored

Thousands of men have switched sides at some point in their life. And most gay men say they are born that way. So I don't understand your point.

How do you know they are born gay? They told you

[musiclady]

I never said all men. I said a large number of men say crude things with close male friends regarding women they don't do in front of their wives especially when they a few beers in them.

I also said just because a man claims or tries to portray Godliness does not mean he he does the same in private. I then  linked the Christian survey of Christian males who close to 70% said they view porn on a regular basis-these stats were from a pro Christina group. The ones who claim to not to view porn the loudest are the ones wacking off every night to porn.

..and why do you keep bringing up this old argument every chance you can??  Can't you let it go..jeesh.

@musiclady

whoops not supposed to ping music lady.

Well, perhaps it's because you never took back the vile things you said, nor apologized for your smears.  It may be old, but it's not gone because you never even acknowledged that you said anything wrong.   And it was ugly.

And I'm not interested in your continuing to defend the smear with your phony data either.

You can be as vile as you want, but don't go smearing others.  SOME men have control over their behavior.  (And I happen to be married to one, whether you like it or not).

But to my point.  I don't care what you think about matters of morality because your perspective is warped.  So your using vile language just because you disagree with me is only one more reason for me not to pay any attention to you.

Perhaps on other issues we can have a mature discussion, but on matters of right and wrong when it comes to morals, nope.

@mirraflake