Author Topic: Sen. Rubio tells a secret: After giving a tax cut to the rich, GOP will cut Social Security and Medi  (Read 5028 times)

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Offline Bigun

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All I heard about when this was proposed was that evil wall street bankers and financial institutions would squander SS and Grandma would have to eat dog food or something.  Meanwhile, the ones who were bankrupting SS were the politicians who stole from the program for years to finance their pet projects.  They couldn't stand the notion that once the program privatized, they wouldn't have a cash cow to milk anymore.

If done right, privatization would have managed the money a helluva lot better than government could have.

Here is a little bit of shocking truth if you are not already aware of it.  There is NOTHING in the Social Security Trust Fund but grade B government bonds!  IOUs!  Chile dealt with this problem some years ago and it seems to have worked out very well for them.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2017, 03:39:17 am by Bigun »
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline corbe

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    Are you trying to tell me @Bigun That that lockbox algore spoke of never existed anyway? 
No government in the 12,000 years of modern mankind history has led its people into anything but the history books with a simple lesson, don't let this happen to you.

Offline Bigun

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    Are you trying to tell me @Bigun That that lockbox algore spoke of never existed anyway?

@corbe

Sad but true my friend!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Jazzhead

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@Jazzhead I'm late to this conversation (I was busy enjoying myself listening to you admit to lying about why you hate Roy Moore.  Sorry).  I knew you would be four-square in favor of screwing people who had spent a life time being forced to invest in a retirement scheme you can't wait to loot.   You never fail to impress.  I assume your 401K is well funded...or do you plan on finding a way to steal that from old folks too?  Eff 'em, right?  They're old, what can they do?

My disgust for your disgrace knows no bounds.

Huh?   Eff old folks?   I AM old folks!   I'm saying we ought to be considering the plight of our grandkids.  Don't kid yourself about this "paying into the system" thing.  There is no "invest".  There is no trust fund.   Every dollar you pay in Social Security taxes go directly to pay checks to old folks.  And when you're old, it will be your kids and grandkids paying your checks.   It's pay as you go,  and actuarially it is going to collapse in not too many more years, unless some changes are made.

Yeah,  I'm old, but not so old to stick my head in the sand like the selfish fool you are.       



 


« Last Edit: December 03, 2017, 04:29:08 am by Jazzhead »
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Offline RetBobbyMI

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Several days ago, Trump said that after tax reform, they will reform welfare next.

Trump is the Governor of Gutium.
Social Security is NOT welfare!
"Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid."  -- John Wayne
"Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish.� ? Euripides, The Bacchae
"Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.� ? Laurence J. Peter, The Peter Principle
"A stupid man's report of what a clever man says can never be accurate, because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand.� ? Bertrand Russell, A History of Western Philosophy

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Huh?   Eff old folks?   I AM old folks!   I'm saying we ought to be considering the plight of our grandkids.  Don't kid yourself about this "paying into the system" thing.  There is no "invest".  There is no trust fund.   Every dollar you pay in Social Security taxes go directly to pay checks to old folks.  And when you're old, it will be your kids and grandkids paying your checks.   It's pay as you go,  and actuarially it is going to collapse in not too many more years, unless some changes are made.

Yeah,  I'm old, but not so old to stick my head in the sand like the selfish fool you are.       



 

Sorry, you've already called me "fool."  No addition to the list of names you've called me tonight.  But do keep trying, you're a font of entertaining epithets.  Don't worry, I won't go crying to the Mods when you call me things.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
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Offline Applewood

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Here is a little bit of shocking truth if you are not already aware of it.  There is NOTHING in the Social Security Trust Fund but grade B government bonds!  IOUs! Chile dealt with this problem some years ago and it seems to have worked out very well for them.

How?

Offline Cyber Liberty

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For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline Bigun

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"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Huh?   Eff old folks?   I AM old folks!   I'm saying we ought to be considering the plight of our grandkids.  Don't kid yourself about this "paying into the system" thing.  There is no "invest".  There is no trust fund.   Every dollar you pay in Social Security taxes go directly to pay checks to old folks.  And when you're old, it will be your kids and grandkids paying your checks.   It's pay as you go,  and actuarially it is going to collapse in not too many more years, unless some changes are made.

Yeah,  I'm old, but not so old to stick my head in the sand like the selfish fool you are.       



 

I'm going to try this one time, and I expect you to completely ignore me.

Older people are out of time to adjust their retirement strategy, while younger workers have years to work out new plans.  Yanking SS now, without warning, hits the most vulnerable workers, the stationary targets.  This makes them the most inviting targets for liberals to loot, which is why I'm not surprised to see what side of this issue you're on.  When you're not promoting abortion or trying to take guns from people, you're always taking the looting path.  Ayn Rand had you pegged.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2017, 08:29:04 am by Cyber Liberty »
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline Jazzhead

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I'm going to try this one time, and I expect you to completely ignore me.

Older people are out of time to adjust their retirement strategy, while younger workers have years to work out new plans.  Yanking SS now, without warning, hits the most vulnerable workers, the stationary targets.  This makes them the most inviting targets for liberals to loot, which is why I'm not surprised to see what side of this issue you're on.  When you're not promoting abortion or trying to take guns from people, you're always taking the looting path.  Ayn Rand had you pegged.

I never, of course,  advocated  "yanking SS now",  for old folks or anyone else.   That's the sort of hysterical and misleading argument liberals love to make,  so for you to adopt such tactics is hardly surprising.   

What I want to do it save SS so that it's still there for future generations.   Millennials will be supporting us baby boomers in our old age;  what does our generation owe them?   Nothing except your selfish rhetoric?   

SS can be fixed by raising taxes and/or reducing benefits.   If we exempt boomers from being part of the solution,  then our kids and grandkids will rightly resent us - we've had the promise of income security in old age our entire lives, but they face only an uncertain future of endless work until body and soul depart.   

Granted, what you advocate is similar, of course, to most politicians - leave SS alone for us older folks, just reduce benefits for the young - after all,  they have "more years to adjust their plans".   But why shouldn't we ALL share in addressing the problem?    The substantive change I was suggesting - eliminating the automatic COLA - might be enough on its own to fix the system for many years.  (Couple that change with the elimination of the wage base cap on FICA taxes, and no other changes may be needed.)   

Private pension plans almost never provide for automatic COLAs.   To do so is to burden current worker and management for the retirements of those long gone.   You never see automatic COLAs in private pension plans because retired workers lose their clout once their gone.   But with SS, old folks never lose their clout - they're the most powerful lobby of all.   So asking older folks to sacrifice along with everyone else is political poison - us boomers have earned the right to be selfish, folks like you say, as we smugly proclaim we've "paid in" already.    But that's fiction - it is a pay as you go system.

Eliminating the automatic COLA does wonders to repair the power imbalance between generations,  which is now unfairly skewed toward the takers and against those who are currently working and producing.  Leaving future cost of living adjustments to the political process allows millennials a voice in the matter.       
« Last Edit: December 03, 2017, 11:24:10 am by Jazzhead »
It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide

Offline Applewood

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I believe SS should be phased out. For now, keep it for those already retired and the ones close to it (say, 55 and older).  Take whatever money left in the program and turn it over to a private investment firm and keep politicians' hands off it.  For younger workers -- here is $X.  The responsibility is yours. Put in savings, invest in stocks, bonds, mutual funds, Cousin Louie's kelp farm futures -- whatever.  Now it will be up to the average shlub to save and invest for the future.  If he squanders the money on booze, dope or loose women, he can't come crying to the feds (actually, the taxpayers ) for a bailout.  Tough luck. 

Eventually, for the younger generation, there won't be $X from the government.  Get off your lazy backsides, get a job, earn a living, then set aside a portion of your earnings for your retirement.

Oh and for those who are collecting SS benefits, but who never worked -- tough.  Many of these are collecting benefits from SS, welfare and maybe a half dozen other programs.  That has to stop.  SS was advertised as being for those who worked and who contributed to it.  It wasn't meant to buy votes from  lazy dopeheads and baby factories.


Offline LMAO

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  and actuarially it is going to collapse in not too many more years, unless some changes are made



 

Actually, they'll just print the money to fund it by that time. People will get a SS check but it's purchasing power will be reduced

All this is assuming no changes are made
I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them.

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Offline Snarknado

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We're getting close to a point where there are only 2 workers per retiree. So picture a working couple trying to make ends meet while funding the entire SS benefit and half the Medicare cost for a retiree of their very own. How can that be sustainable?
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Offline Hoodat

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   Just a Thought, Flame me if you wish for this thought but had GWB achieved the privatization of SS as he advocated back then on his 2000 Campaign Trail with the Stock Market setting records almost every year since he left office, maybe that would have been a good thing?

@corbe

CORRECTAMUNDO !!!
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Offline LMAO

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How can that be sustainable?

It's not.

So the powers that be believed they could import a workforce. The problem with that is the people they are importing are low skilled and therefore lower paid workers. Europe did something similar to try to prop up their welfare states but, as you can now see, it isn't working out as planned.

Throw in increasing automation and globalization and it isn't hard to realize these programs are not affordable in the foreseeable future

Good intentions and the desire to help people cannot defeat math or the law of economics
« Last Edit: December 03, 2017, 02:18:55 pm by LMAO »
I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them.

Barry Goldwater

http://www.usdebtclock.org

My Avatar is my adult autistic son Tommy

Offline RetBobbyMI

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I never, of course,  advocated  "yanking SS now",  for old folks or anyone else.   That's the sort of hysterical and misleading argument liberals love to make,  so for you to adopt such tactics is hardly surprising.   

What I want to do it save SS so that it's still there for future generations.   Millennials will be supporting us baby boomers in our old age;  what does our generation owe them?   Nothing except your selfish rhetoric?   

SS can be fixed by raising taxes and/or reducing benefits.   If we exempt boomers from being part of the solution,  then our kids and grandkids will rightly resent us - we've had the promise of income security in old age our entire lives, but they face only an uncertain future of endless work until body and soul depart.   

Granted, what you advocate is similar, of course, to most politicians - leave SS alone for us older folks, just reduce benefits for the young - after all,  they have "more years to adjust their plans".   But why shouldn't we ALL share in addressing the problem?    The substantive change I was suggesting - eliminating the automatic COLA - might be enough on its own to fix the system for many years.  (Couple that change with the elimination of the wage base cap on FICA taxes, and no other changes may be needed.)   

Private pension plans almost never provide for automatic COLAs.   To do so is to burden current worker and management for the retirements of those long gone.   You never see automatic COLAs in private pension plans because retired workers lose their clout once their gone.   But with SS, old folks never lose their clout - they're the most powerful lobby of all.   So asking older folks to sacrifice along with everyone else is political poison - us boomers have earned the right to be selfish, folks like you say, as we smugly proclaim we've "paid in" already.    But that's fiction - it is a pay as you go system.

Eliminating the automatic COLA does wonders to repair the power imbalance between generations,  which is now unfairly skewed toward the takers and against those who are currently working and producing.  Leaving future cost of living adjustments to the political process allows millennials a voice in the matter.       
Simplistic solutions don’t fix the problem. That’s what our politicians do all the time. So increased taxes or reduced benefits either don’t work or would be political suicide. Those of us drawing Social Security now paid into it for better than 40 years. A significant chunk of our working years income. If the government would give me back every cent I paid plus interest from the day paid, I would gladly roll that into my retirement savings. But that will realistically NEVER happen, so government you made a promise. Now stick to it!
"Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid."  -- John Wayne
"Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish.� ? Euripides, The Bacchae
"Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.� ? Laurence J. Peter, The Peter Principle
"A stupid man's report of what a clever man says can never be accurate, because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand.� ? Bertrand Russell, A History of Western Philosophy

Offline Bigun

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   Just a Thought, Flame me if you wish for this thought but had GWB achieved the privatization of SS as he advocated back then on his 2000 Campaign Trail with the Stock Market setting records almost every year since he left office, maybe that would have been a good thing?

@corbe @Hoodat

You can lay that failure at the feet of his friend and political advisor Karl Rove and none other!
« Last Edit: December 03, 2017, 03:58:13 pm by Bigun »
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline cato potatoe

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Social Security was meant to be insurance against outliving your savings, at a time when the average lifespan was 61.  The simplest answer to the demographic problem is to increase the "full benefit" retirement age for people born prior to _____ and again for people in a younger bracket.  Announce it while they have time to save for the gap period.  Even the dumbest voters would prefer that to a payroll tax increase.

Offline Bigun

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Social Security was meant to be insurance against outliving your savings, at a time when the average lifespan was 61.  The simplest answer to the demographic problem is to increase the "full benefit" retirement age for people born prior to _____ and again for people in a younger bracket.  Announce it while they have time to save for the gap period.  Even the dumbest voters would prefer that to a payroll tax increase.

And the federal government, nor any other for that matter, has ANY business what-so-ever going into the insurance business! NONE!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Cyber Liberty

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But why shouldn't we ALL share in addressing the problem?     

I said you would not listen.  I told you why not.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline Applewood

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@corbe @Hoodat

You can lay that failure at the feet of his friend and political advisor Karl Rove and none other!

Perhaps Rove, but I think there were other factors.  Democrats were very successful in portraying Republicans as the party that didn't care about seniors.  You know the portrayal of evil Republicans pushing Grandma in a wheelchair off a cliff or Republicans forcing seniors into such poverty, they would be eating dog food.  Republicans never had the balls to fight back against that portrayal and never seemed to be able to explain, first of all, that SS is in dire financial straits and needs to be fixed, and second, taking government out of SS and turning it private was the best solution to its financial problems.

Both parties are vote driven. Any change that might upset a particular group of voters to the point where the party might lose that group's vote cannot be implemented, no matter how right and necessary that change might be.

Plus I've come to realize that neither party gives a rat's butt about any of us. They don't have to be concerned about SS, just as they don't have to care about Obamacare.  They have their own lavish, taxpayer funded pensions and health insurance.  The only time they care about us is election season. Once they get our vote, they become focused on whatever benefits them.  It's the old "I got mine.  Hooray for me and pizz on you."

Offline Cyber Liberty

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I believe SS should be phased out. For now, keep it for those already retired and the ones close to it (say, 55 and older).  Take whatever money left in the program and turn it over to a private investment firm and keep politicians' hands off it.  For younger workers -- here is $X.  The responsibility is yours. Put in savings, invest in stocks, bonds, mutual funds, Cousin Louie's kelp farm futures -- whatever.  Now it will be up to the average shlub to save and invest for the future.  If he squanders the money on booze, dope or loose women, he can't come crying to the feds (actually, the taxpayers ) for a bailout.  Tough luck. 

Eventually, for the younger generation, there won't be $X from the government.  Get off your lazy backsides, get a job, earn a living, then set aside a portion of your earnings for your retirement.

Oh and for those who are collecting SS benefits, but who never worked -- tough.  Many of these are collecting benefits from SS, welfare and maybe a half dozen other programs.  That has to stop.  SS was advertised as being for those who worked and who contributed to it.  It wasn't meant to buy votes from  lazy dopeheads and baby factories.

I like your suggestion.  It protects the people already locked in, who don't have the time to fix their finances before the whammy comes down.  Liberals don't like it, they want to rip off the people who are already locked in because stationary targets are the easiest to loot.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline Bigun

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I like your suggestion.  It protects the people already locked in, who don't have the time to fix their finances before the whammy comes down.  Liberals don't like it, they want to rip off the people who are already locked in because stationary targets are the easiest to loot.

@Cyber Liberty @Applewood

We already have at least one long running test case that shows what results are possible! Galveston County, Texas.

http://www.ncpa.org/pub/ba514
« Last Edit: December 03, 2017, 05:20:02 pm by Bigun »
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien