The Truth and Fictions of the Roy Moore Debacle

[Smokin Joe]

Bears being repeated, just "not denying" going out with teenage girls is a huge strike in many people's minds.

Forty years ago "teenagers" included those who were old enough to drink beer and wine (although Moore lived in a 'dry' county), vote, enter into contracts, and marry even without parental consent.
Aside from the college dropouts, teenagers comprised those being drafted into military service for combat duty in Vietnam.
Teenagers were supporting their families, running farms, fishing commercially, working construction jobs (and not just pushing brooms), etc. At 17 I had been a volunteer firefighter for a couple of years and was certified to run ambulance calls.

We're not talking about today's teenagers. We are talking about a more socially structured dating environment. Many in that time period graduated from High School at 17 (no kindergarten). I know, I did, although by '77 I was nearly out of college.
We are not talking a 'child rapist', but your use of that particular pejorative phrase speaks volumes.

[Applewood]

Yes, the people of Alabama have that right. I wonder alone, if Moore would have won if we had the info we have today?  Doesn't deny dating teen age girls when he was thirty plus. A lot of people would see that as a strike against him. He may well not have won.  That is another consideration.

Well, we will never know, will we?  But I've said before, the timing of these accusations against Moore is suspect.  Why  didn't they come out during the primaries?  My suspicion is that it's because Moore was not expected to win.  The party wanted Strange, but when the voters rejected him in favor of Moore, the party hatched this plan to smear him. 

We saw this scenario before with Herman Cain.  The party wanted their man, Romney, to be the nominee.  The expectation was that the other contenders would, at a suitable time, fold like a cheap suit, and they did -- except for Herman Cain.  While Romney and the others were making vague promises to fix the economy, Cain came out with his 9-9-9 plan.  Would that plan have worked?  Maybe not.  But the point is that while the other were blowing nothing more than hot air, Cain had an actual strategy.  And just by having that strategy, he started to become more popular with the voters. 

This did not sit well with the party elite, who saw their guy, Romney, losing ground in the polls.  So all of a sudden, women started coming out of the woodwork to accuse Cain of improprieties.  Cain couldn't take it, so he dropped out. 

My state's primary isn't until May, and the incident with Herman Cain occurred before I got a chance to vote.  Would I have voted for Cain if he was still on the ballot?  I don't know.  But the point is I was denied my right to make my own choice.  It was at that point, I decided there was no way in hell I was going to vote for the already selected candidate, Romney; so I didn't. And I suspect many others didn't vote for Romney either, perhaps for the same reason.

There is a real danger that the same could happen in the Alabama special election if Moore is ousted in favor of the party's selected candidate.  Savvy voters might be wise to these shenanigans and deliver the middle finger to the party by writing in Moore's name, staying home, or maybe even voting for the Democrat.  Either way, the Dem could win.

[INVAR]

So neither of us is an Alabama voter, and on the surface you and I might not have a stake in this particular election.  But if the party gets away with tossing out the candidate Alabama voters want, what is there to stop the party from doing the same in your state or mine?

You have swerved right into the whole truth of this issue, because THAT is what is taking place here in a more overt-form, but make no mistake - the Republican Party has been putting mechanisms in place to ensure the grassroots has no ability whatsoever to choose their nominees by putting the power to choose and decide candidates in the hands of the Leadership.

The last two GOP Conventions revealed that fact - Rule 12 shifted rules-making powers away from the convention and to the Republican National Committee only. It allows the RNC to make changes to other rules after the convention away from party membership in closed door session — for the entirety of the next election cycle, up until summer 2018.  It's biggest feature is to groom and choose candidates and reject those the grassroots nominate.  It also ruled to keep open primaries, refused to reward closed primary states and refused to apportion delegates in a fairer and more balanced manner.

Bob Corker (R) TN let the cat out of the bag when he stated last week that "Look, I'm sorry, but even before these reports surfaced, Roy Moore's nomination was a bridge too far,".  EVEN BEFORE THE ALLEGATIONS SURFACED - THE GOP HAD DETERMINED THE NOMINATION OF MOORE WAS A 'BRIDGE TOO FAR'.

As I said yesterday - what we are witnessing is the Oligarchy boldly demonstrating that that will choose our rulers for us, and destroy those they do not want.

[Hoodat]

You have swerved right into the whole truth of this issue, because THAT is what is taking place here in a more overt-form, but make no mistake - the Republican Party has been putting mechanisms in place to ensure the grassroots has no ability whatsoever to choose their nominees by putting the power to choose and decide candidates in the hands of the Leadership.

The last two GOP Conventions revealed that fact - Rule 12 shifted rules-making powers away from the convention and to the Republican National Committee only. It allows the RNC to make changes to other rules after the convention away from party membership in closed door session — for the entirety of the next election cycle, up until summer 2018.  It's biggest feature is to groom and choose candidates and reject those the grassroots nominate.  It also ruled to keep open primaries, refused to reward closed primary states and refused to apportion delegates in a fairer and more balanced manner.

And Trump and his primary backers supported it 100%.

[Bigun]

You have swerved right into the whole truth of this issue, because THAT is what is taking place here in a more overt-form, but make no mistake - the Republican Party has been putting mechanisms in place to ensure the grassroots has no ability whatsoever to choose their nominees by putting the power to choose and decide candidates in the hands of the Leadership.

The last two GOP Conventions revealed that fact - Rule 12 shifted rules-making powers away from the convention and to the Republican National Committee only. It allows the RNC to make changes to other rules after the convention away from party membership in closed door session — for the entirety of the next election cycle, up until summer 2018.  It's biggest feature is to groom and choose candidates and reject those the grassroots nominate.  It also ruled to keep open primaries, refused to reward closed primary states and refused to apportion delegates in a fairer and more balanced manner.

Bob Corker (R) TN let the cat out of the bag when he stated last week that "Look, I'm sorry, but even before these reports surfaced, Roy Moore's nomination was a bridge too far,".  EVEN BEFORE THE ALLEGATIONS SURFACED - THE GOP HAD DETERMINED THE NOMINATION OF MOORE WAS A 'BRIDGE TOO FAR'.

As I said yesterday - what we are witnessing is the Oligarchy boldly demonstrating that that will choose our rulers for us, and destroy those they do not want.

Which is why I am no longer a Republican and they continue to prove me right in making that decision on a daily, and sometimes hourly, basis!

[INVAR]

And Trump and his primary backers supported it 100%.

That they did.

And in Alabama, they wanted Luther Strange - McConnell's Towel Boy.

The voters said 'no'.  So now McConnell and the GOP Oligarchy will show us that they will have whom they prefer in there, regardless whom the voters may have wanted.

[Smokin Joe]

That they did.

And in Alabama, they wanted Luther Strange - McConnell's Towel Boy.

The voters said 'no'.  So now McConnell and the GOP Oligarchy will show us that they will have whom they prefer in there, regardless whom the voters may have wanted.

That's the general aroma of things. The dank smell of swamp mud hangs heavy in the air.

[NavyCanDo]

I'm not going to enter the debate about whether Moore is innocent of the charges or guilty because that would take a trial, and we don't have one. What we have is an important election to hold a Senate seat.

But here is an undeniable FACT from this that I have learned.. If you went to school in the 1970s like I did, those really cute girls in your Junior High yearbook are......well how can I say this delicately?  Likely butt-ugly today, if they aged anything like these accusers.

[edpc]

As I said before:
The Lord hates a waggin tongue.

Unless it's also a sword.  Then you get a purdy white horse.

[EasyAce]

I'm not going to enter the debate about whether Moore is innocent of the charges or guilty because that would take a trial, and we don't have one.

A court trial is not the sole manner in which people might determine a man's innocence or guilt;
a court trial is, really, nothing more than the legal apparatus by which we determine whether
he can be punished in legal terms for a crime, if he committed one. You can determine
for yourself whether Mr. Moore is innocent or guilty based on the information you know---people
do it all the time, O.J. Simpson being only one of the most notorious examples. (Though I can
still remember hearing people who knew the real evidence pointed to his guilt still deciding he
was not guilty because, well, a court of law found him thus, never mind how incompetently he
was prosecuted, and never mind the oft-forgotten truth that court verdicts are neither infallible
nor, often enough, the final word.) Did we need a court trial to know Droopy Drawers Clinton was
guilty of perjury, suborning perjury, and obstructing justice? Or that he was a serial adulterer?
Have we needed a court trial to know Hilarious Rodent Clinton was guilty at minimum of using
the State Department as a clearinghouse for contributions to the Clinton Foundation, never
mind her culpability in Benghazi or in turning the Democratic National Committee into her
personal campaign piggy bank?

You simply can't do anything more to punish Mr. Moore, on your own, if you believe him guilty or
at least not quite so innocent, other than living in Alabama and voting against sending him to the
U.S. Senate. But you don't require a court trial to determine on your own whether he is guilty or
innocent or still Lucy-you-got-some-splainin'-to-do . . .

[roamer_1]

Unless it's also a sword.  Then you get a purdy white horse.

Except a waggin tongue (gossip) is not a sword

[edpc]

Except a waggin tongue (gossip) is not a sword

Metaphorical killjoy.

[roamer_1]

Metaphorical killjoy.

Those are my middle names 

[Smokin Joe]

Those are my middle names 

Wagon tongue?

[XenaLee]

Which is why I am no longer a Republican and they continue to prove me right in making that decision on a daily, and sometimes hourly, basis!

Ditto that.

[roamer_1]

Wagon tongue?

 

[Applewood]

I'm not going to enter the debate about whether Moore is innocent of the charges or guilty because that would take a trial, and we don't have one. What we have is an important election to hold a Senate seat.

But here is an undeniable FACT from this that I have learned.. If you went to school in the 1970s like I did, those really cute girls in your Junior High yearbook are......well how can I say this delicately?  Likely butt-ugly today, if they aged anything like these accusers.

I graduated in 1970.  Only went to one reunion -- the 15th.  All the good looking popular girls got fat and ugly.  More than a few of them were married and divorced. One was on her third husband.

And the guys didn't look much better.  The most handsome guy in HS -- the football QB -- lost about half his hair.  Probably lost the rest of it by now.  Oh, and he has a beer gut.  Guess he isn't working out like he used to when he was on the team.

All the good looking popular kids used to look down their noses at unattractive nerds like me.  But now they lead miserable lives, while I'm much happier than they.  Guess time has been my best revenge.

[Smokin Joe]

I graduated in 1970.  Only went to one reunion -- the 15th.  All the good looking popular girls got fat and ugly.  More than a few of them were married and divorced. One was on her third husband.

And the guys didn't look much better.  The most handsome guy in HS -- the football QB -- lost about half his hair.  Probably lost the rest of it by now.  Oh, and he has a beer gut.  Guess he isn't working out like he used to when he was on the team.

All the good looking popular kids used to look down their noses at unattractive nerds like me.  But now they lead miserable lives, while I'm much happier than they.  Guess time has been my best revenge.

Yep. By the time Roy got home from West Point, the two tours in the Army, and Law School, that's what was left of his age group...