Author Topic: 'Mass shooting' reported at Sutherland Springs church in Texas  (Read 36457 times)

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Online Hoodat

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Re: 'Mass shooting' reported at Sutherland Springs church in Texas
« Reply #500 on: November 07, 2017, 09:51:17 pm »

Here some news about the shooter:

Officials in Comal County say the suspect in the Sutherland Springs church shooting was involved in an alleged sexual assault four years ago. Link on the thread about his escape from a mental health facility in 2012.

I remember that headline:


NUT BOLTS AND SCREWS
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Offline Suppressed

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Re: 'Mass shooting' reported at Sutherland Springs church in Texas
« Reply #501 on: November 07, 2017, 10:10:22 pm »
Imagine if your child said to you "I will do anything and everything humanly possible to avoid being with you". That's pretty much how we treat God when it comes to dying and going to Heaven.

Exactly why early Christians welcomed death, preferring to be with their Lord than here in a temporal existence.  This got so popular, it culminated in the rise of the Donatists.  But the Church didn't like that and changed the rules a few centuries later.
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Offline Suppressed

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Re: 'Mass shooting' reported at Sutherland Springs church in Texas
« Reply #502 on: November 07, 2017, 10:10:56 pm »
I remember that headline:


NUT BOLTS AND SCREWS

 :facepalm2:

« Last Edit: November 07, 2017, 10:13:52 pm by Suppressed »
+++++++++
“In the outside world, I'm a simple geologist. But in here .... I am Falcor, Defender of the Alliance” --Randy Marsh

“The most effectual means of being secure against pain is to retire within ourselves, and to suffice for our own happiness.” -- Thomas Jefferson

“He's so dumb he thinks a Mexican border pays rent.” --Foghorn Leghorn

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: 'Mass shooting' reported at Sutherland Springs church in Texas
« Reply #503 on: November 07, 2017, 10:15:03 pm »
Thanks for all the added information @austingirl

I know there is a Go Fund Me site for the man who is burying 8 members of his family (including his pregnant wife).
 
He needs extra prayer from all of us that God would comfort him.

His pain must be unbearable....
  One of my daughter's best friends is from Sutherland Springs and it is her mom's family that lost so many.  They are devastated.
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Offline austingirl

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Re: 'Mass shooting' reported at Sutherland Springs church in Texas
« Reply #504 on: November 07, 2017, 10:35:21 pm »
  One of my daughter's best friends is from Sutherland Springs and it is her mom's family that lost so many.  They are devastated.

So sorry. This will touch so many. 8888crybaby
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Offline Applewood

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Re: 'Mass shooting' reported at Sutherland Springs church in Texas
« Reply #505 on: November 07, 2017, 10:39:13 pm »
Local news says one of the victims was a native of Western PA.  He and his wife were both killed. 

Yes, this will touch a lot of people.

Offline Sanguine

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Re: 'Mass shooting' reported at Sutherland Springs church in Texas
« Reply #506 on: November 07, 2017, 10:40:04 pm »
None of us knows that tor certain, but if he did assault his wife and child and threatened his mother-in-law as has been alleged, I think those are good signs he might have been mentally ill. 

I would like to know if he had sought treatment or could he have been ordered to do so after he assaulted his family.  And if so, what was the diagnosis.

@Applewood, I stand corrected.  Looks like he was diagnosed with something.

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: 'Mass shooting' reported at Sutherland Springs church in Texas
« Reply #507 on: November 07, 2017, 10:45:40 pm »
So sorry. This will touch so many. 8888crybaby
My wife is from a town of such small size.  She could not sleep last night as she was trying to imagine what it would be like to lose so many at one time from such a small town.
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Offline musiclady

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Re: 'Mass shooting' reported at Sutherland Springs church in Texas
« Reply #508 on: November 07, 2017, 10:56:18 pm »
  One of my daughter's best friends is from Sutherland Springs and it is her mom's family that lost so many.  They are devastated.

Oh, I am so sorry to hear that.  If you have any contact with her, please let her know that people all over the country are praying for her, and for her family.

I cannot imagine the grief.  Even with a deep faith, the human pain has to be unbearable.

They need to be lifted up by our prayers!
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Offline Applewood

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Re: 'Mass shooting' reported at Sutherland Springs church in Texas
« Reply #509 on: November 07, 2017, 11:06:34 pm »
@Applewood, I stand corrected.  Looks like he was diagnosed with something.

In a mental health facility, but he escaped. 

He's one guy who should not have been walking the streets.  However, I don't know the law in other states, but around here, it's not that easy to have someone committed or to keep them confined.  Wouldn't want to make it so easy that greedy relatives could have a person put away in order to confiscate his assets.  But the way things are now, too many are out there who should not be.  There has to be some solution  in the middle.

Online Smokin Joe

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Re: 'Mass shooting' reported at Sutherland Springs church in Texas
« Reply #510 on: November 07, 2017, 11:24:22 pm »
My church has chairs instead of pews.  So everyone is at least armed with a chair.  It makes it much harder to shoot accurately when dozens of people are throwing chairs at you.
Very good! Use ANYTHING to disrupt aim, ability to reload, mob the shooter during a reload.
My attitude: You're already dead. Now do something about it.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

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Offline austingirl

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Re: 'Mass shooting' reported at Sutherland Springs church in Texas
« Reply #511 on: November 08, 2017, 12:05:32 am »
First wife Tessa, got a divorce quickly and free after she informed court her husband was in jail (brig.) She got the TV, Xbox, $1700, and a .38 revolver. Wonder where she is. She was supposed to get $300 a month child support- doubt if she got any of it. Correction-she was allowed to keep her $300 child support from a previous relationship.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2017, 12:10:25 am by austingirl »
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Online Smokin Joe

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Re: 'Mass shooting' reported at Sutherland Springs church in Texas
« Reply #512 on: November 08, 2017, 12:27:20 am »
The basic question of why does God allow evil, is pertinent dozens or hundreds of times, daily.

Drunk driving
Drug overdose
Wife beating
Child beating
Homicide
Assault and battery

....and for me, the answer is that God doesn't generally micromanage his spinning mudball, all that much on a daily basis.
The Almighty has given us the freedom to choose our path.

He has even given us the option to change paths, for better or worse.

How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline jmyrlefuller

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Re: 'Mass shooting' reported at Sutherland Springs church in Texas
« Reply #513 on: November 08, 2017, 01:59:20 am »
@austingirl

That's because trolling has worked for him on this thread. Just one example, reply 492. @mystery-ak gave him the go-ahead to start a religious thread regarding this event, but the hijack continues on this one. It's a PIA to filter through all the religious discussion when you're trying to get info on the actual incident. These folks obviously have a lot more time on their hands than I do.

Maybe a different thread should be started for reporting facts of the shooting and leave this one to the religious discussion. I don't really know. I'm just looking for ways to keep from having to slog through off-topic stuff to follow pertinent info.
I am not a troll, and I would HOPE that the years I've been here and the many posts I've made would make that clear. The subject of the thread is that people praying to God in a church were slaughtered en masse. Maybe the rest of you can numb yourselves to the deeply troubling issues this raises, but I can't, and I won't.

Sorry I even brought it up.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2017, 02:15:55 am by jmyrlefuller »
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Online Smokin Joe

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Re: 'Mass shooting' reported at Sutherland Springs church in Texas
« Reply #514 on: November 08, 2017, 02:27:36 am »
I am not a troll, and I would HOPE that the years I've been here and the many posts I've made would make that clear. The subject of the thread is that people praying to God in a church were slaughtered en masse. Maybe the rest of you can numb yourselves to the deeply troubling issues this raises, but I can't, and I won't.
Do not mistake our calm for being numb. Rather, I believe what you are seeing is simply faith. These people will suffer no more, they were at worship, in the house of The Almighty, and had come there of their own will to worship Him.

  You forget Hamlet:
Quote
Now might I do it pat, now he is praying;
And now I'll do't. And so he goes to heaven;
Hamlet seeking to revenge his father's murder, relented, rather than send his murderous stepfather into the next life with prayers on his lips. Instead, he resolved to kill him later, in the midst of his many sins, when he'd go to Hell, instead.
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He took my father grossly, full of bread;
With all his crimes broad blown, as flush as May;
And how his audit stands who knows save heaven?
But in our circumstance and course of thought,
'Tis heavy with him:and am I then revenged,
To take him in the purging of his soul,
When he is fit and season'd for his passage?
No!Up, sword; and know thou a more horrid hent:
When he is drunk asleep, or in his rage,
Or in the incestuous pleasure of his bed;
At gaming, swearing, or about some act
That has no relish of salvation in't;

For the next life, what better time to die than in prayer, at worship, rather than some moment when something else is distracting you? The dead are in His arms. I pray the living are, too, turning to Him in their grief.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Online Hoodat

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Re: 'Mass shooting' reported at Sutherland Springs church in Texas
« Reply #515 on: November 08, 2017, 02:47:00 am »
I am not a troll, and I would HOPE that the years I've been here and the many posts I've made would make that clear. The subject of the thread is that people praying to God in a church were slaughtered en masse. Maybe the rest of you can numb yourselves to the deeply troubling issues this raises, but I can't, and I won't.

Sorry I even brought it up.

This guy prayed to God, too.




You are asking questions based on a very very small experience with time about a God who is not bound by time.

Consider Christ's words when Lazarus was brought back to life.  John 11:35

There is a much bigger picture here.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Online Hoodat

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Re: 'Mass shooting' reported at Sutherland Springs church in Texas
« Reply #516 on: November 08, 2017, 02:48:33 am »
And I know you are not a troll, Jimmy Earle.  Don't regret asking.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Offline Mom MD

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Re: 'Mass shooting' reported at Sutherland Springs church in Texas
« Reply #517 on: November 08, 2017, 03:12:52 am »
I am not a troll, and I would HOPE that the years I've been here and the many posts I've made would make that clear. The subject of the thread is that people praying to God in a church were slaughtered en masse. Maybe the rest of you can numb yourselves to the deeply troubling issues this raises, but I can't, and I won't.

Sorry I even brought it up.

These questions are honest from the heart and need to be asked.  I will not give more religious answers on this thread but no question is wrong...  you are seeking answers   Maybe a thread on this would be a good idea
« Last Edit: November 08, 2017, 03:13:15 am by Mom MD »
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Re: 'Mass shooting' reported at Sutherland Springs church in Texas
« Reply #518 on: November 08, 2017, 03:22:07 am »
I am not a troll, and I would HOPE that the years I've been here and the many posts I've made would make that clear. The subject of the thread is that people praying to God in a church were slaughtered en masse. Maybe the rest of you can numb yourselves to the deeply troubling issues this raises, but I can't, and I won't.

Sorry I even brought it up.

I wish I had answers for you...I want answers too!...I have been crying for two days now and I just can't comprehend this evil....

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Online Smokin Joe

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Re: 'Mass shooting' reported at Sutherland Springs church in Texas
« Reply #519 on: November 08, 2017, 04:09:06 am »
I wish I had answers for you...I want answers too!...I have been crying for two days now and I just can't comprehend this evil....
Myst, I believe there are things we just can't comprehend. Near as I can figure, this guy was twisted up over something with his ex and her family and maybe the church they attended. The guy had mental issues and anger issues as well, well enough documented, in retrospect.
I don't want to fully understand a person who could hurt a child intentionally, if that was the case, or who gets so lost in his anger he does not realize he is hurting others.

That said, there seem to be more people cracking under the incessant media barrage of rancor, where murder is no biggie in almost all fiction and popular 'entertainment'. Perhaps people need to revisit their personal sense of horror, to wake up to the things splattered across their living rooms every night or lauded in song, and back away to a gentler place.


How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline TomSea

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Re: 'Mass shooting' reported at Sutherland Springs church in Texas
« Reply #520 on: November 08, 2017, 04:32:03 am »
Wrong- the killer stopped to engage the hero neighbor and it is known he saved lives.

And the killer was a coward, a Jihadist would have fought to the death, Kelley took off and ran.

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Re: 'Mass shooting' reported at Sutherland Springs church in Texas
« Reply #521 on: November 08, 2017, 04:32:41 am »
I am not a troll, and I would HOPE that the years I've been here and the many posts I've made would make that clear. The subject of the thread is that people praying to God in a church were slaughtered en masse. Maybe the rest of you can numb yourselves to the deeply troubling issues this raises, but I can't, and I won't.

Sorry I even brought it up.

Don't worry about it. I've never seen you defend slavery to be called such names.  *****rollingeyes*****

Offline TomSea

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Re: 'Mass shooting' reported at Sutherland Springs church in Texas
« Reply #522 on: November 08, 2017, 04:36:16 am »

Crowder talks to hero Willeford.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4HEchh0XD8

He talks about engaging Willeford in the parking lot about 9 minutes in.

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Re: 'Mass shooting' reported at Sutherland Springs church in Texas
« Reply #523 on: November 08, 2017, 06:38:50 am »
Everything That Could Possibly Go Wrong With The Gun Control Narrative Went Wrong In Texas

dailycaller
Geoffrey Ingersoll
Editor in Chief
10:03 AM 11/07/2017

[excerpt]

http://dailycaller.com/2017/11/07/everything-that-could-possibly-go-wrong-with-the-gun-control-narrative-went-wrong-in-texas/

In perhaps the most chilling instance of post-shooting hysteria, an online mob viciously attacked thought and prayer.

They attacked religion. They attacked our God-given right of self defense. The machine was in full spin. The NRA was covered in blood, they said. The church’s walls and their God did not protect them, they said.

The mob’s scorched earth would accept nothing less than a complete mea culpa, on behalf of the Christian God, the Second Amendment, and supporters of both.

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Offline Applewood

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Re: 'Mass shooting' reported at Sutherland Springs church in Texas
« Reply #524 on: November 08, 2017, 12:29:34 pm »
@To-Whose-Benefit?

Thank you for posting that article.  It burns me up that Democrats couldn't wait until the bodies were cold before they started whining about guns.  Yesterday, Dems in the House wouldn't even observe a moment of silence for the victims.  They don't really care about the victims.  All they care about is taking away our Second Amendment rights.  More government control of our lives.  But  what did government do to prevent or even mitigate this tragedy?  We have gun control laws in place.  We are supposed to have governmental agencies sharing information so that an informed decision can be made as to whether a person should have a gun.  But because government can't or won't share information, a madman with a long history of violent behavior was able to purchase firearms.  So how did gun control already in place prevent this tragedy? 

This is a guy who shouldn't have even been out on the street.  With each violent act, he had been given a slap on the wrist.  Maybe a citation, maybe minimal jail time.  Why?  Because each jurisdiction where Kelley's violent acts occurred never knew about his past violent history or if they did, they never considered that history.  They would just look at the present case before them and give the guy the minimum punishment. 

And what about that argument that we should wait for law enforcement to handle a crime?  Well, Kelley had some high-powered firearms and plenty of time to mow down people with them  before law enforcement could even be made aware of the carnage.  A neighbor with his own firearm rushed over and engaged Kelley, but by then so many people had been killed or wounded.  Perhaps had someone in that church been armed, the toll of dead or wounded would have been lessened.

But none of these knucklehead liberals see the big picture because they don't want to.   They have been eager to trash the Second Amendment because, if they are ever able to rid us of our right to bear arms, it will be so much easier to take away all of our other rights as well.  Everything they do is geared toward government control and dumbing down the populace to make it easier to control. 

While I believe that there is little difference between Democrats and Republicans these days, the Republicans have, at least so far, defended us against the onslaught by Dems against our Second Amendment rights.  But if Republicans don't get their act together and keep the promises they made to the voters, I can see them losing both houses of congress and maybe even the presidency in 2020.  If that happens, you can be sure the Dems will put abolishment of the Second Amendment high n on their list of priorities and it will go through.  Then you can say goodbye to your firearms and the freedoms we have long enjoyed.