'Mass shooting' reported at Sutherland Springs church in Texas

[Applewood]

Why are you tossing "mental illness" out there?  There is no indication that he was mentally ill.

None of us knows that tor certain, but if he did assault his wife and child and threatened his mother-in-law as has been alleged, I think those are good signs he might have been mentally ill. 

I would like to know if he had sought treatment or could he have been ordered to do so after he assaulted his family.  And if so, what was the diagnosis. 

[edpc]

The guy did a year "in confinement" before being discharged for the offenses. Two charges of assault, one for the wife, one for the child.

Yes, but it was under the UCMJ and the specific charges would not be known to the regular criminal court system.  Current known information shows he had a bad conduct discharge, which is in a different category from a dishonorable one.  He knows he’s guilty of a domestic charge and lied on the form.

[Suppressed]

The Lautenberg Amendment:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_Violence_Offender_Gun_Ban

Thanks, @Smokin Joe...that's what I was thinking.  So it seems odd that they are relying on the type of discharge to say whether he was prohibited.   But I guess the nature of the charge might have been something they are confirming wasn't subtly outside the scope of the federal ban.

[Smokin Joe]

Thanks, @Smokin Joe...that's what I was thinking.  So it seems odd that they are relying on the type of discharge to say whether he was prohibited.   But I guess the nature of the charge might have been something they are confirming wasn't subtly outside the scope of the federal ban.

If that's the case, then there is the loophole. It isn't because of gun shows.

[Restored]

@Sanguine
But recently, he was posting pro-Christian stuff, no?

You tell us.

He showed no obvious signs of mental illness so I don't think it wise to jump to that conclusion just yet. He was evil.

[Cyber Liberty]

Thanks, @Smokin Joe...that's what I was thinking.  So it seems odd that they are relying on the type of discharge to say whether he was prohibited.   But I guess the nature of the charge might have been something they are confirming wasn't subtly outside the scope of the federal ban.

Sounds to me like there is no communication between the two Justice systems.  That would not surprise me, and should be the focus of any changes. 

[mountaineer]

Because I don't want to re-ignite a religious debate, I'll just leave this link for anyone who might be interested: Why church shootings don’t intimidate the Church, from Washington Post.

[Restored]

If that's the case, then there is the loophole. It isn't because of gun shows.

I think the loophole is in how you identify yourself. Drivers license # is an obvious answer. I have to go through background checks and they want everything. But if you have money, you can get anything.

[RetBobbyMI]

The gunman who shot and killed at least 26 people inside a Sutherland Springs church on Sunday had previously worked at Schlitterbahn in New Braunfels, a job that required him to pass a criminal background check.


As local, state and federal officials search for the reason Devin P. Kelley, 26, now deceased, walked into the First Baptist Church, about 35 miles southeast of San Antonio, and began shooting, they are also piecing together who the killer was.

Kelley was employed at the Summit Vacation and RV Resort in New Braunfels at the time of the shooting, said manager Claudia Varjabedian. She said he did "security work" and was hired about a month and a half ago.

A background check was run on Kelley before he started working at the resort and "nothing negative showed up on him," Varjabedian said, adding no one ever complained about him.

She said Kelley left work Saturday "saying he had a headache," and then did not show up for his shift Sunday. Varjabedian declined to comment further.

Kelley also spent five and a half weeks working as a nighttime security guard at Schlitterbahn New Braunfels beginning in June, said Winter Prosapio, spokeswoman for the Central Texas water park.

[Polly Ticks]

Because I don't want to re-ignite a religious debate, I'll just leave this link for anyone who might be interested: Why church shootings don’t intimidate the Church, from Washington Post.

Thanks for posting it.  It's a good article.

[Smokin Joe]

I think the loophole is in how you identify yourself. Drivers license # is an obvious answer. I have to go through background checks and they want everything. But if you have money, you can get anything.

I have a CCW permit, and in this state, that serves as a background check. The dealers I have bought from run NICS anyway, in case something happened since the CCW permit was issued.

[edpc]

Sounds to me like there is no communication between the two Justice systems.  That would not surprise me, and should be the focus of any changes.

That’s government bureaucracy for you…

[TomSea]

Kelley was shot by a good Samaritan which left him in bad or unknown condition but may have administered the lethal shot to himself.

Texas church gunman Devin Patrick Kelley was armed with three guns and had argued with his mother-in-law before the rampage, officials say.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41892838

So, we heard about his ex-in-laws but maybe he had an argument right before this incident.

[Gefn]

Texas shooter may have been motivated to kill by domestic situation-NPR

(This just came in as an Apple alert on my iPhone)

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/11/06/562299408/texas-church-shooter-may-have-been-motivated-to-kill-by-domestic-situation?utm_source=npr_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_content=20171106&utm_campaign=breakingnews&utm_term=nprnews

[Smokin Joe]

Kelley was shot by a good Samaritan which left him in bad or unknown condition but may have administered the lethal shot to himself.

So, we heard about his ex-in-laws but maybe he had an argument right before this incident.

Custody, visitation, and child support are common bones of contention. Not sure whether he went looking for them in church, or if somehow he blamed the church or the congregation. Hard to say without more information.

[Sanguine]

@Sanguine
But recently, he was posting pro-Christian stuff, no?

I haven't seen anything like that, so I can't say one way or the other.

[thackney]

@Sanguine
But recently, he was posting pro-Christian stuff, no?

@Suppressed Where have you seen that?

[corbe]

   I made the sad mistake of asking my Dentist this morning if he had possibly been a patient of hers, her voice quivered and her eyes watered up, she last saw him when he was 16yo.  Small town.

[Sanguine]

None of us knows that tor certain, but if he did assault his wife and child and threatened his mother-in-law as has been alleged, I think those are good signs he might have been mentally ill. 

I would like to know if he had sought treatment or could he have been ordered to do so after he assaulted his family.  And if so, what was the diagnosis.

I disagree.  Meanness isn't a mental illness.  Violence isn't correlated with mental illness.

[corbe]

   Some reports I have seen have HIM actually teaching Bible Study in a Baptist Church, as his wife did.  His place of residence is way out in the country where there are many actual deer leases and lots of shooting all the time, pretty isolated.

[txradioguy]

If he was convicted of domestic abuse in the military the Lautenberg Act would prohibit him from even carrying a weapon in the military much less be able to purchase one legally as a civilian.

Being found guilty of domestic abuse in the military will get you a bad conduct discharge 100%of the time.

Military and civilian courts do communicate and cooperate to a point. But there are different punishments and different levels of "reasonable doubt" and "preponderance of the evidence" that are used in the two different legal systems.

[Hoodat]

Kelley bought the Ruger AR-556 rifle in April of 2016 from Academy Sports & Outdoors in San Antonio, CNN reports, citing a law enforcement official.

So basically, the Obama administration dropped the ball.

[Cyber Liberty]

If he was convicted of domestic abuse in the military the Lautenberg Act would prohibit him from even carrying a weapon in the military much less be able to purchase one legally as a civilian.

Being found guilty of domestic abuse in the military will get you a bad conduct discharge 100%of the time.

Military and civilian courts do communicate and cooperate to a point. But there are different punishments and different levels of "reasonable doubt" and "preponderance of the evidence" that are used in the two different legal systems.

In a logical world, both court systems should be reporting Lautenberg violations to NICS, right?  (For the record, I don't like the Lautenberg Amendment)

[Hoodat]

Being found guilty of domestic abuse in the military will get you a bad conduct discharge 100%of the time.

Having served a year in military prison, it is clear he was convicted of something.

[bigheadfred]

The way the checks go, all one would need to do is lie on the 4473 form and just change out a number in your DL# you provide and hope the Academy clerk doesn't look too closely when verifying your ID. A different number won't pull up a red flag and it is passed.

Easy enough to do. Easy enough to miss. My wife got a call from animal control last week that they had a Yorkie and the tag number came up as it being our dog.  They had transposed the last two numbers on the tag. They seemed at a loss as to what to do. Why don't you call the people you have as the owners with the tag numbers of our dog???? And fix your clerical error.

@Smokin Joe

States, even counties, are notorious for their lack of information sharing.  To show up on NCIS, you have to be in that system. States don't put everyone into the national database. So he may have been shut down in Texas because he is in their system. But if he wasn't put into the national database by Texas, Colorado, or NCIS, wouldn't have a clue.