'Mass shooting' reported at Sutherland Springs church in Texas

[Sanguine]

@AllThatJazzZ
I'm not denying that, but I'm confused as to where the source of the claim is.  Was that something he wrote on FB or what?

Someone who went to high school with him said that.  It was in one of the Daily Mail articles.

[Millee]

Kelley was once a member of the US Air Force, spokeswoman Ann Stefanek said. He served in logistics readiness at Holloman Air Force Base in New Mexico, starting in 2010.

Kelley was court-martialed in 2012 for two counts of Article 128 of the Uniform Code of Military Justice, assault on his spouse and assault on their child, Stefanek said. Kelley received a bad conduct discharge, confinement for 12 months and a reduction in rank, she said. The Air Force did not provide a date of the discharge.

Kelley is accused of killing 26 people, including the 14-year-old daughter of the church's pastor, and injuring more.

A man who lives next door to the church grabbed his own gun and approached Kelley as he was leaving after the shooting. The gunman dropped a rifle in front of the church and fled in his car, officials said.

Kelley was found dead in his car from a gunshot wound about eight miles from the church, according to a law enforcement official. It's not clear if he shot himself or if the neighbor shot him.

Kelley purchased the Ruger AR-556 rifle in April 2016 from an Academy Sports & Outdoors store in San Antonio.

When Kelley filled out the background check paperwork at the store, he checked the box to indicate he didn't have disqualifying criminal history, the official said. He listed an address in Colorado Springs, Colorado when he bought the rifle, the official said.

Amazing to me that 24-hours later, we know more about this cretin than we do Stephen Paddock 5-weeks after the fact. 

[Smokin Joe]

Most sources say the POS dropped his gun when he was fired at.

Dropped the rifle. I would guess that wasn't the only firearm he had with him.

[mountaineer]

Amazing to me that 24-hours later, we know more about this cretin than we do Stephen Paddock 5-weeks after the fact.

Interesting,  isn't it? LV has dropped off the radar,  almost.

[Smokin Joe]

Possible motive coming out of the presser is to kill his former mil who he had threatened numerous times.

They are still trying to figure out how he was able to purchase weapons in Texas and Colorado after serving time for domestic violence and given an Dishonable discharge from the USAF

NICS should have flagged him and the purchase should have been refused. After all the howling about background checks, apparently they failed to indicate he was ineligible. 

[mystery-ak]

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/358942-texas-gov-abbot-gunman-was-denied-gun-permit
Texas Gov. Abbot: Gunman was denied gun permit

[Applewood]

Trump is right.  This is a mental health issue, not a gun issue.  Gun control does nothing to prevent terrorist attacks (and yes, this is an act of terrorism).   If Kelley had no firearms, he could have just as easily used knives, bombs or who knows what to inflict his carnage. 

But it appears that Kelley had exhibited signs of mental illness.  His alleged violence toward his wife and child would be evidence of that.  So it looks like Kelley was either never diagnosed or misdiagnosed.  Had he received proper treatment, he might not have shot up a church. 

Still, Democrats will continue to waste time, money and effort to prevent law abiding citizens from owning firearms, but have nothing to say about the larger issue of mental health.  This indicates to me that Democrats don't really care about preventing such violent terroristic acts.  They just want another way for government to control oue lives. 

[truth_seeker]

In a local incident here, we had a fellow that was discharged from the Navy, for drugs. (also had wife, baby)

Next he had contact with city PD 12 or 14 times, and was sentenced to 2 yrs. in prison. Got out in 6 months, a few days later brutally murdered an elderly man that knew him and tried to help him.

Three days after that, he was shot and killed by a police officer, after the man tried to assault the officer.

It was no known when the police shot him, that he had killed the man 3 days earlier. Initially there was a lot of sympathy from the "lives matter," "anti-cop" crowd for him.

Then the news came out about the murder of the other man, and crickets.

Of course the version has it he was mentally ill. I am struggling over what comes first, mental illness or chronic drugs use?

[Sanguine]

Trump is right.  This is a mental health issue, not a gun issue.  Gun control does nothing to prevent terrorist attacks (and yes, this is an act of terrorism).   If Kelley had no firearms, he could have just as easily used knives, bombs or who knows what to inflict his carnage. 

But it appears that Kelley had exhibited signs of mental illness.  His alleged violence toward his wife and child would be evidence of that.  So it looks like Kelley was either never diagnosed or misdiagnosed.  Had he received proper treatment, he might not have shot up a church. 

Still, Democrats will continue to waste time, money and effort to prevent law abiding citizens from owning firearms, but have nothing to say about the larger issue of mental health.  This indicates to me that Democrats don't really care about preventing such violent terroristic acts.  They just want another way for government to control oue lives.

Mental illness and lack of character aren't the same thing.  I know the psychiatry and psychology fields have worked hard to convince us of that, it's not so.

[ABX]

Amazing to me that 24-hours later, we know more about this cretin than we do Stephen Paddock 5-weeks after the fact.

I hate to be a contrarian (OK, I really don't hate to be one, it is my nature), but this really is a product of social media and the change in how much we share and expect to know about other people's lives. Just ten or so years ago, we would be hard pressed to find details of many of these people's lives. We especially wouldn't know about their demons and inner most thoughts.  We've grown accustomed in a short period of time, to being able to learn vast amounts about someone from a few clicks.

Paddock until recently, would be the norm. We wouldn't know about the thoughts and motivations of a mentally ill recluse. Now, we think it is odd when someone shuns social media and doesn't broadcast to the world their real thinking. But what's more unusual, someone who does or someone who doesn't?

[Cyber Liberty]

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/358942-texas-gov-abbot-gunman-was-denied-gun-permit
Texas Gov. Abbot: Gunman was denied gun permit

Here comes the screaming about "Gun-Show Loopholes."

[KingsX]

Wearing the black mask with white skull face is creepy.

That is creepy.  Just now TV news said he was dressed all in black.
I didn't know about the white skull face mask.

[edpc]

Here comes the screaming about "Gun-Show Loopholes."

Except he didn’t buy it at a gun show. Somehow, he was able to purchase one through normal channels, even though he should have been disqualified.

Kelley bought the Ruger AR-556 rifle in April of 2016 from Academy Sports & Outdoors in San Antonio, CNN reports, citing a law enforcement official.


http://time.com/5011322/ruger-ar-556-rifle-texas-church-shooting/

[Smokin Joe]

Except he didn’t buy it at a gun show. Somehow, he was able to purchase one through normal channels, even though he should have been disqualified.

Kelley bought the Ruger AR-556 rifle in April of 2016 from Academy Sports & Outdoors in San Antonio, CNN reports, citing a law enforcement official.


http://time.com/5011322/ruger-ar-556-rifle-texas-church-shooting/

Regardless of his discharge status, having been convicted of domestic assault is a disqualifier. He should have been flagged by NICS, and failed the check.

[Cyber Liberty]

Except he didn’t buy it at a gun show. Somehow, he was able to purchase one through normal channels, even though he should have been disqualified.

Kelley bought the Ruger AR-556 rifle in April of 2016 from Academy Sports & Outdoors in San Antonio, CNN reports, citing a law enforcement official.


http://time.com/5011322/ruger-ar-556-rifle-texas-church-shooting/

If that's the case, then it was likely because the 72 hour deadline lapsed.  We haven't heard it yet, but we may now:  "72 hours is not enough to ensure a proper vetting!  We must eliminate the deadline!" so the government can drag their feet and hold up legitimate purchases for weeks (or longer).

[Cyber Liberty]

Regardless of his discharge status, having been convicted of domestic assault is a disqualifier. He should have been flagged by NICS, and failed the check.

Instantly.  If I recall the law correctly, the attempt to purchase is against the law because he would have had to have lied on the form he filled out during the purchase, but almost nobody has ever been prosecuted for failing a NICS check.

[Suppressed]

Reports are that it was a Bad Conduct Discharge, not Dishonorable, which might have been the equivalent of a misdemeanor. 

But still, it was evidently for domestic violence, so I'd think it would prevent legal firearms purchase in Texas.  Anyone know?

[RetBobbyMI]

Interesting,  isn't it? LV has dropped off the radar,  almost.

Or the left wing media just stopped pursuing any stories out of Vegas

[edpc]

Regardless of his discharge status, having been convicted of domestic assault is a disqualifier. He should have been flagged by NICS, and failed the check.

Typically, the charges behind the reason for discharge are not disclosed. However, he would have lied on the form if he checked NO to the question of a domestic abuse conviction and the discharge alone is a disqualifier, if it’s dishonorable. The background check either did not work or he lied on the questionnaire. Either way, it didn’t work and it wouldn’t be the first time.

[Applewood]

Mental illness and lack of character aren't the same thing.  I know the psychiatry and psychology fields have worked hard to convince us of that, it's not so.

I didn't say it was. Obviously, not every mentally ill person would think to shoot up a church. But for those who do, I think we should explore why and what sets them off. 

[Sanguine]

I didn't say it was. Obviously, not every mentally ill person would think to shoot up a church. But for those who do, I think we should explore why and what sets them off.

Why are you tossing "mental illness" out there?  There is no indication that he was mentally ill.

[ABX]

Instantly.  If I recall the law correctly, the attempt to purchase is against the law because he would have had to have lied on the form he fulled out during the purchase, but almost nobody has ever been prosecuted for failing a NICS check.

The way the checks go, all one would need to do is lie on the 4473 form and just change out a number in your DL# you provide and hope the Academy clerk doesn't look too closely when verifying your ID. A different number won't pull up a red flag and it is passed.

[Suppressed]

Someone who went to high school with him said that.  It was in one of the Daily Mail articles.

@Sanguine
But recently, he was posting pro-Christian stuff, no?

[Smokin Joe]

Reports are that it was a Bad Conduct Discharge, not Dishonorable, which might have been the equivalent of a misdemeanor. 

But still, it was evidently for domestic violence, so I'd think it would prevent legal firearms purchase in Texas.  Anyone know?

The Lautenberg Amendment:

The act bans shipment, transport, ownership, and use of guns or ammunition by individuals convicted of misdemeanor domestic violence, or who are under a restraining (protection) order for domestic abuse that falls within the criteria set by 18 U.S.C. § 922(g)(8). The 1968 Gun Control Act and subsequent amendments had previously prohibited anyone convicted of a felony and anyone subject to a domestic violence protective order from possessing a firearm. The act also makes it unlawful to knowingly sell or give a firearm or ammunition to such persons.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_Violence_Offender_Gun_Ban

[Smokin Joe]

Typically, the charges behind the reason for discharge are not disclosed. However, he would have lied on the form if he checked NO to the question of a domestic abuse conviction and the discharge alone is a disqualifier, if it’s dishonorable. The background check either did not work or he lied on the questionnaire. Either way, it didn’t work and it wouldn’t be the first time.

The guy did a year "in confinement" before being discharged for the offenses. Two charges of assault, one for the wife, one for the child.